Lighting Equipment

[nikonboy]

Okay I have a small dilemma and I need your help. I am going to be

doing Christmas dog photos and some other portrait work in the coming

months. I currently do most of my work outside in parks, but since

winter is approaching and dog photos must be done inside I am in need

of more lighting equipment.

<p>

What I am trying to decide is if I can achieve a professional look by

adding some dedicated hot shoe flashes to my setup and mounting them

on tripods. The benefit here is that I can invest in a couple flash

guns that will migrate smoothly to digital bodies (namely the

SB-800/SB-600). So these would see a lot of use in the future at

weddings. But would these offer enough power?

</p><p>

Or should I just get some portable studio lighting? I have been

looking at Alien Bees (B400) and they seem to offer the most value for

the money. I would think that the only time these would be useful at a

wedding would be during formal shots and perhaps during a reception if

I added some Pocket Wizards to the mix.

</p>

Please share your thoughts. Thanks!

[melisa]

I have done several portraits with flash. It will certianly get you by, but after a while it becomes a pain in the rear, IMO. I got tired of little inconsistancies, no modeling light, and having to meter manual flash units. My 550EX is not bad, but the modeling light is just not long enough and if you want to do portraits w/ big umbrellas or softboxes, you're going to be toting around just as much stuff. I do weddings completely different, as portable as possible.

 

I just bought a Bee (B800) to try it and so far am enjoying it, ready for a couple more. It's just so much easier to work with. I bought the 800 on the recommendation of the folks in the Lighting Forum, you may eventually want that extra power. Here's a shot from my 2nd try w/ the Bee.<div></div>

[brandonhamilton]

Add a better diffuser, or lower the power a bit, and add a reflector to the opposite side.

[hoang_nguyen2]

I'm not familiar with studio light so may I ask a stupid question: What is a modeling light? What's its purpose? I try to make a guess that it shows you how the light is falling on the subject (light pattern). Do you turn it off when ready to fire the studio light flash? Please help me understand its functions a little better. Thanks.

[andrew_sanderson]

A modeling light is supposed to allow WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). One thing

of note since you are looking at the Paul C Buff stuff. The white lightning models offer a

250w modeling light vs. the bees with 100w.

 

The white lightings weigh approx 1.2 pounds more than the alienbees across the line in

case you want to figure this into your portability concerns.

 

These can all be portable flash systems with the vegabond system.

[melisa]

Actually Mr. Smarty Pants ;-), I couldn't lower the power any lower on this one, but a slower film speed definitely. I want a giant softbox, but these were bounced off a white diffusion umbrella (would like to see you take a giant softbox on location) and I have several others here using a reflector. I love 4:1 on men...hmmm...handsome hubby, huh? Just forgot to feather the main, pointed it right at him, whoops. Here's one with a reflector.

 

Yes, the modeling light can stay on and Alien Bees can take up to 150W, which isn't much, but it's certainly better than nothing at all.<div></div>

[william_au]

I think I bought the 2 B800's just before Melisa's. What color did you get? I thought hard about the alien green, but figured it wouldn't look so "classy" at a tux/cigar/port wedding, so settled for star white :)

 

Hotshoe flashes have a lot of advantages in my opinion, being portable being the greatest one. And you can achieve great results from them within certain limits. But if you're going to be mounting them on a lightstand anyways, you may want to check out studio strobes - way more options and power. I have 2 B800's and picked up some Pocket Wizards, and have to say am really really pleased with the performance of the whole package. Have used them at a bunch of receptions and portrait shoots, and they have performed flawlessly. I highly recommend both the Bees and the Pocket Wizards - the lights are great value and the 800's were shockingly powerful for me (never used lights before), and the PW are worth their $ in reliability (I had cheap crappo slaves before).

 

You could rent out a set of lights and see if it's to your liking, but if you're in it for the long haul, I think it's an investment that you wouldn't regret.

[melisa]

Funny, I was thinking green too & even the pink, but thought I'd better go low profile, so I went black. How funny would I have looked strolling into an elegant affair w/ my neon pink strobes...LOL!

[nikonboy]

Thanks for all the great feedback. William, Melissa would you both get the B800 again? I was thinking of ordering the Digi B Package and it has 2 B400s ... I was thinking of upgrading one of them to the B800 (it's only $55 more).

<p>

Also, do I really need 2 lights or could I get by with 1 B800 and a reflector. My concern with this setup would be lighting larger groups with only 1 light. I don't think a reflector would work very well for this or am I wrong?

</p>

[jeff medkeff anchorage, a]

<p>To the modeling light question above: Modeling lights are (typically) incandescent lamps that are in the same basic location as the flashtube. As you surmised, you use it to see what kind of light you are going to get when you fire the lights - it makes arranging the lights easier. With most strobes there is no need to turn the modeling lights off when you shoot; the flash power totally overwhelms them. (One exception would be low-power macro applications, there are probably others.) On many lights, you can set the modeling lights to turn off when the flash is fired and back on when the monolight or pack has recharged. I find this feature very handy.

 

<p>To the original poster: I share a studio space that is terribly undersized - 14' wide, 22' long, and 9' ceiling. We had some mystery monolights in there until I recently replaced them with Alien Bee B800's. I've not shot a lot with the new lights yet, but so far I'm glad I got the 800s and not the 400s. Just FYI in case you decide to go with Bees.

 

<p><i>(would like to see you take a giant softbox on location)</i>

 

<p>I take a Lightgear USA Giant Softbox, about 60" high and 33" inches wide, on location all the time. I didn't know it wasn't supposed to be done.

[melisa]

Oh yes, I only bought one, now I want two, when I get two, I'll want three...The 400 will be good for smaller groups, spaces and individuals, hair and backlight, but you may want more eventually. I'd definitely get another 800, at it's lowest setting, bounced into a shoot-through umbrella, with 400 speed film, the above shots were still f5.6 @ 1/125. That's a good amount of power! I would say you could certainly get by with one, I do groups all the time w/ a single 550EX and just drag the shutter, but two will provide you with separation or fill, the scenarios are endless. For small groups a reflector may work.

[Jenifer Selwa Photography]

I hjave two Britek monolights (100w each; don't need more for what I do) mounted onto two light stands with 48 inch umbrellas. I also have a backdrop setup with a variety of muslin backdrops and Savage seamless paper rolls. Ttoal cost: about $500, maybe a little less. The best part is that the entire setup collapses into a long bag about the size of a bag for skis and fits in my car. I can take it anywhere.<div></div>

[melisa]

Didn't say not supposed to. Just thought it would be a hassle in re: to setup and space. Many of my shots are in homes with small living spaces, not much room for big boxes for "more diffusion". Of course I said this without actually having to set one up yet, my bad. I'm sure once you get the hang of it, it's a whole other story, it's just really easy to pop open a big umbrella. They have another diffusion umbrella "The Softliter", that looks like a similar effect to the softbox, it's gotten good reviews.

[william_au]

Most people seem to think more power is never a bad thing, as you can grow into it. I've only had one instance where I was trying something at home where I had too much power. There have been a number of times where I've fired the B800's at full power (usually bounce) and been glad that I had enough power to eke out 5.6 @ ISO200. So I personally would add more 800's (or 1600's?) to my arsenal, unless I was specifically looking for a hair or background light.

 

You can totally get by with just one light. Having two (or more) just opens up more options, though you have to be thoughtful about their setup. I forgot one of the cords to my B800 the last shoot, so was down to 1 light - totally fine, but I didn't have to light groups of more than 3 rows deep, and at the reception, I really missed having another light at the other end of the hall. I'm personally glad I got 2, and don't feel the need yet to add more.

[picturesque]

I shoot these for a local animal group at Christmas. I think you'll be much happier with studio lighting. I use a Dynalite 500 pack and two heads. You will need the extra power if you're using 35mm, film and offering packages for sale since you'll need 160 speed (I use Portra 160NC and offer up to 8x10). You need a medium f stop (could be any number of animals, people in a photo) and the motion stopping power of flash (dogs are very squirmy and you have to hit that shutter button real fast). The modeling lights are a big help because you can see reflections in glasses, etc., if the owners are in the photos with their dogs (not to mention Santa's glasses).

 

I don't know about Alien Bees but seems like a number of people have good things to say about them. You could use battery powered lights like Lumedynes, Normans, etc. but most don't have modeling lights worth anything. I use umbrellas (key and fill) with a wireless slave system, but it would work with a long sync cord. Don't have the time or space for any other lights (background, accent) because I shoot a large number of dogs/people in the time allotted. If this is the kind of thing you're doing, I can give you some advice if you want.

 

The Alien Bees (or whatever) can be used at receptions to bounce off ceilings or as "room lights" as long as you keep the stands/cords out of the way. They are also nice for formals but get the battery pack option if they have one.

 

You could just rent a system if you don't see other needs for the lights.<div></div>

[miguel_ramos]

You couldn't have asked this question at a better time for me. I am also going to do Christmas dog photos, for a doggy daycare and have the same dilemma. My current setup is a nikon f100/n70 with a sb80dx/sb28. I was thinking of using my sb28 on my f100 and triggering the sb80. But after searching and reading a lot of the photonet threads, decided to try using portable studio lighting. Yesterday I ordered one (b800) Alien bee light with a softbox. I'm eagerly awaiting its arrival to start practicing. I'm glad to see all the other post with their help. This has always been a great forum to learn from.

[nikonboy]

Thanks again for the great feedback. Nadine that is almost exactly what I want to do, but I don't have a Santa Claus. How on earth do you make money paying some guy to be Santa? In my area there are PetSmarts that offer dog photo's for $10 so I have to try and stay in line with them. If you could give me a little more information on your basic setup I would really appreciate it. Thanks so much!

[picturesque]

Jason, you have to remember that I was doing these for charity--not to make money, so the Santa was a series of volunteers lined up by the animal group. Its the same with PetSmart--they are donating some of the money, and if I remember correctly, all you get for the $10 is a polaroid (SX70 type) in a paper folder. If you are doing this for profit, it's another story. If you're doing it in conjunction with a pet store or mall, try to see if you can get volunteers through them. Otherwise, I agree that hiring your own Santa can be troublesome. Here are some suggestions based on my experience--your needs may be different.

 

I was shooting both Polaroids (not the SX70 type) and packages. The Polaroid went into a plastic Xmas ornament and the packages were made traditionally and sent to the client. This meant we had to keep good records, I had to watch for blinks, and use the exact same lighting with gray card frames so my lab could print inexpensive packages (like they do for proms). You can do it this way (I had 4 different packages) or you can just do 5x7s or if digital, print them on the spot. In any case, helpers are necessary, with forms and tables, to help explain the offer and keep track of things. Also check with your lab first re packages. You'd sell more with the "one hour photo" concept, and if you go for the "snail mail" method, be sure to do your shooting with enough time before Christmas.

 

Other kinds of helpers, like the person that gets the dog's attention, are really important. Another helper might be the person that helps the client/dog into Santa's lap. You never know what kind of reaction the animal will have. It could range from trying to bite the handler or Santa, to peeing all over the floor. I have had a few that absolutely refused to get within 10 feet of Santa. So patience is required for some. In any case, the "attention getter" or "animal wrangler" should stand slightly behind and to the right or left of you (whichever way the main light is coming) and wave stuff over your head, or use a squeaky ball (or other noisemaker), or call the pet's name in an authoritative voice. The owner can do the job, but the important thing is to tell them not to start until you say so. This is so you can be focused, framed and ready to press the shutter button when they do start. You may only get one chance. Also tell the wrangler/owner not to squat down--otherwise the animal is looking down. You want to see the animal's eyes. Tell the Santa to keep looking at the camera and keep a good grip on the animal. Blinks happen with both Santa and the dogs, so watch for that. With film, shoot it again, with digital, chimp the screen. Some dogs will need more than one attempt. Also, if you put a tree in the background, do not use breakable ornaments as dogs do jump around. Also keep a lot of towels around.

 

As for the background, I use a light to medium colored background with a white Xmas tree. This is to provide some natural separation for dark/black dogs--there are a lot of black labs out there. Dark green trees and dark backgrounds just don't work unless you can play with the lighting a little--something I couldn't do since once we began, I had a solid line of folks/dogs waiting. Also, if you are using a directional light pattern, put the darkest dogs closer to the key light. Santa should be sitting on a low bench. Santa chairs don't work. This is so you can put small dogs in Santa's arms (like my example) and crop in, medium dogs sitting next to Santa on the bench, and large dogs between his knees. A series of crates with a drop could work, but they have to be low. Some dogs won't jump up on something skinny. It would be great if I could change the light for dark/black dogs to a little more specular quality, but time doesn't allow--maybe the only thing you could do is pump up the fill a little--dark fur looks good with specular highlights on it. Be sure to use low contrast film so you can get the maximum detail out of shadows and highlights--all white dogs may be an opposite problem. Otherwise, the soft, broad light from umbrellas work pretty well.

 

Miguel--if you have only one light and softbox, you could just use the one light just to the left or right of you, with diffused on-camera fill. The advantage of this would be not having to worry about cast shadows, but it is flatter light, which does not help delineate the fur as much. In any case, I use a wireless transmitter system to sync the lights. The Dynalite is a corded, pack system--I use two heads, two umbrellas, classic key/fill ratio (1:3). At times, when I shot outside under a tent, I used a straight reflector head for fill, due to the wind. You have to tape everything down anyway--jumpy dogs.

 

When people got into the picture, I had maybe one or two sitting next to Santa, and the others behind Santa, with one knee on the bench behind him, and leaning forward. Depends on the size of the dog, too, and how big your background is. I used a zoom, which helps when going from a big group to a small dog with Santa. I used Portra 160NC (35mm) because I wanted nice, grainless photos, and f8 at 1/60th. No shutter dragging here. This is not exactly hugely creative photography here, but it makes a lot of dog owners happy.

 

You can also offer "no Santa" shots, and Hanukah shots too.

 

If I think of anything else, I'd post more.