Bessa R 35mm f/2.5 or Bessa T or ?

[dean_g]

I want to get my gear down to just one digital and one 35mm film

camera. I've got the digital I want, a Canon 10D DSLR, and I'm

selling off my other digicams and film odds and ends to consolidate

on a decent RF 35mm film camera. I'm leaning towards the Bessa R

with 35mm f/2.5 at its current attractive price, but I'd appreciate

alternative suggestions. The Bessa T is interesting (note: I have no

M lenses or cameras, just a Fed2 with a couple 50mm LTM russian

lenses) but I'm not crazy about the separate rangefinder focus vs

viewfinder arrangement. Also the Hexar AF has been suggested by a

friend, and the quiet operation has some appeal. A Leica is not

financially feasible. Basically I want a manual RF type of camera in

total contrast to the DSLR. Any other ideas?

[m_.]

Sounds like the R is a better choice for you as you have no M lens and don't like to use separate range/view finders.

 

Hexar RF is a great camera if you can live with the motor drive which at times can be "loud".

[leslie_cheung]

What's your budget? What focal lens do you use most? Do you

planning getting more lens or will one lens be it. Sure you can

just get the bessa r and 35mm but to choose the best available

option, I think you should consider those questions first.

[huw_finney]

I would go for the R2 (or even the R3, same price) much better build.

[mike_elek]

The Bessa R is a good low-cost solution to your needs, especially at current prices, which you note.<P>

 

The f/2.5 35mm lens is a nice all-purpose lens though obviously not the first choice for portraits, though even there it performs well enough provided you're ready to crop your shots.<P>

 

The body is good, handles well and you can feel its SLR roots. It's not the quietest thing. I wouldn't use it during a wedding ceremony, for example.<P>

 

I wrote <a href=http://host.fptoday.com/melek/bessa-r.html target=_new>this mini-site on the Bessa-R</a> a couple of years ago. For the most part, my feelings about the camera haven't changed.<P>

 

I think I paid about $700 or so at the time for my R + pancake 35, so today's prices are really attractive.

[shambrick007]

I say go for the T to not limit yourself to screw-mount lenses. The only reason I sold mine was to finance my M6.

[prime lens]

The T is a lot easier to focus than the R because of the highly-magnified RF spot, the RF diopter adjustment, and the fact that the RF spot doesn't move. Switching your eye from the RF to the external VF on the T is easier than following the RF spot in the R around as it moves with the parallax-compensated framelines. (I have a T and an R2.)

 

Learning to frame portraits with lenses over 50mm on the T takes some getting used to, but the large, bright image from the external VF is to die for.

 

The T has no hot shoe or self-timer. If you ever want to stick a flash on at a birthday party, you'll want the hot shoe.

 

The T with a 40/2 is becoming an automatic extension of my mind. It's nice and light, and I like it.

[john_morris4]

An R with a slow 35mm lens is perfectly easy to focus. Don't worry about that.

[jim_mcbride]

I know this will sound heretical coming from me, but the C/V cameras and lenses (all of

them) are really good. That's why I was really surprised when I saw some figures recently

about how few of them have actually been made. "Really good" is a subjective term which

in this case refers to the price/performance ratio when compared to Leica equipment of

similar utility. For those folks who find Leica equipment not financially feasible, it's hard to

beat the C/V stuff.

[kevin_sido1]

Jim's comment is right on the spot in my opinion and based on my experience as a user of both modern M equipment and the R2 and L and several CV lenses.

[dean_g]

Thanks for all the input so far, they're helpful in the decision process. I'm planning, if I go with the Bessa R, to add a 75mm for portrait, depending on how successful my purge of current stuff is. Obviously I'm on a budget that eliminates most Leica options (or all), and as I mull over the various suggestions, and mull over the cameraquest website, it becomes more and more obvious that the R is the most cost effective rangefinder with lens choices(at the current "kit" price). The T would get spendy by the time I get the viewfinder, lens etc, the L is really low priced but I don't want to be confined to scale focussing or only wide angles. And the new R3 is M mount and more expensive, albeit not by Leica standards. While I think the 35mm f/2.5 would be a comfortable wider/normal lens for me, I've got a collapsible Russian Industar 50mm 3.5, and if the FED2 doesn't sell I'll also have the 50mm 2.8. Those are both no the greatest, but really not too bad, particularly the colapsible 50 3.5. And then with the 75mm, there's a decent range covered. In a minimal sense I could happily live with just the 35mm, and I've got the 10D to occupy me should I experience lens withdrawal.

 

I keep coming across criticism of the Bessa R build quality, and the short scale RF focussing. Any thoughts there? I assume the build quality is being referenced to Leicas, and I'm not sure that's relevant given the price differential. Compared to other 'everyman's" cameras what do you think? As my options are limited, it really may not matter anyway, I just want something that I will want to pick up and use.

 

I think someone has mention that the focussing is fine for wider lenses stopped down a bit, and what I've read indicates there may be no real issue until you get up to 135mm or so. ??

[peter_evans4]

Don't attempt to sell the Soviet equipment. Resale value is next to nothing, and the fact that you're a photographer rather than somebody in the Ukraine trying to make a bit of extra pocket money will suggest that you're getting rid of it because it doesn't work right, further bringing down the resale value. If you really don't want it, you might give it away. (Not to me, thanks.) Meanwhile: the Canon 7 is good and quiet (and big and heavy and ugly). It doesn't have a built-in accessory shoe, and although the rareness and price of the accessory shoe add-on are sometimes exaggerated, the add-on is neither common nor cheap so you'd better forget any hope of using any accessory finder. I don't say that the Canon 7 is better than the Bessa, but you're looking for other, cheap ideas so that was one for you to chew over. (And another: I rather like the Canon L1/L2/L3/VL/VL2, and they're pretty cheap too in my part of the world -- perhaps partly because the varieties are so numerous as to deter the casual fondler.)

[dean_g]

You're probably correct about the lack of value of the Russian FED2, and in fact I do know someone who would like it. Thanks for bringing that up, I'll probably give it to him. I don't know much about the Canons you're mentioning, I'll do a bit of research perhaps.

[back_alley_.]

you can't beat an r with 35/2.5 and adding a 75/2.5 later on makes it the (for me) perfect outfit. it will do most anything you want it to within the confines of rf photography.

build quality is fine. most people who complain about it are USUALLY the ones who held it for 5 minutes in a camera store or read it so often they just keep passing the info along.

my biggest beef with the set up is that it's too small & light and i had to get used to that in order to get sharp shots.

i also use a canon 'p' w/50/1.8 lens and quite like the heft of it.

try out the bessa and see if you like the feel of it.

[leslie_cheung]

>>>>>I keep coming across criticism of the Bessa R build

quality, and the short scale RF focussing. Any thoughts there? I

assume the build quality is being referenced to Leicas, and I'm

not sure that's relevant given the price differential. Compared to

other 'everyman's" cameras what do you think? As my options

are limited, it really may not matter anyway, I just want something

that I will want to pick up and use. <<<<<

 

Yes, the build quality is adequate though it can't compared to

leica, hexar, canon nor any rf from the older days. you are

basically trading build quality for convenient and automation.

 

>>>>>I think someone has mention that the focussing is fine for

wider lenses stopped down a bit, and what I've read indicates

there may be no real issue until you get up to 135mm or so.

??<<<<<

 

effective base length is ok as long as you don't go fast

tele(75mm lux, 90mm cron close up especially). I personally

hate going anything over a 50mm on rf but that's just me.

 

One last thing, you may want to consider a faster lens as you

can't just turn up the iso ala 10d.

[larrybc]

I've had a Bessa R for over a year and I've got absolutely no complaints about its build quality. While the build quality doesn't match a Leica, it is also much, much less expensive than a Leica with TTL metering.

 

I bought it with the CV35/2.5 and I love that lens. I also have a Jupiter 8 (50/2) and a CV75/2.5. I found the 75 to be difficult to focus at close ranges and wide open. Some R/R2 owners can focus it just fine, others can't. I'm in the latter camp and am selling it.

 

So, don't have any qualms over the R's construction. It'll be just fine.

 

Larry

[scott_mcloughlin]

IMHO, my Bessa R is just fine. I also have an M6 TTL, but it's no use comparing the two. Both are stuck in my bag these days, the R typically dedicated to the CV 21/4.

 

R is a light body with a rubbery back with a nice little bump or ridge where your thumb falls. Not much to go into: mount, frame selector, wind, rewind, shutter dial and so forth. Simple camera, WYSIWYG - what you see is what you get.

 

I have the 35/2.5P LTM. Same optics as the 35 Classic. Makes damned nice pictures. With 400 speed film, f2.5 is usually just fast enough. You can always give yourself a hand with faster film if need be. That said, of the CV lenses I own, I like the Nokton 50 the best.

 

I only shoot up to 50mm on RF gear (so far), but focusing should be no problem at all. I don't recall hearing about difficulties focusing the 75/2.5 on the CVUG list. The "center the eye over the RF patch" thing presents no practical difficulties for me.

 

In any case, the R body and the CamerQuest "kit" with the 35 Skopar is just a great deal in a new RF camera. Loads of fun. Just beat it up and shoot lots of pictures.

[over exposure]

I abandoned the D70 to come back to film....i started with an R with the 35 2,5, like you plan to do...then i gave it to my wife and buyed a Leica. The quality is totally different, it's a different pleasure..but needs are needs, and the Bessa R is a really good camera after all!

[dean_g]

Lots of encouragement for the Bessa R, thanks again, and I've about decided on that camera. But one other camera that's been on my mind for sometime is the Ricoh GRv1. I know it's a single 28mm focal length and falls more into the P&S category, but it has some attractive and intriguing manual controls and a reputedly awesome lens. The Bessa of course would offer me greater flexibility and certain other intangilbles, but as my expectation is to stay with at most 2 focal lengths, mainly the 35mm f2.5 (I've decided that for portraiture, tele, etc the 10D will be the tool of choice, while the film camera will be reserved for very different process and aesthetic.. or something masquerading as such), I don't want to exclude the GRv1 from this discussion. That is, assuming anyone is still checking this thread.