Digital shooters-- what do you offer and why?

[matthewkane]

Hello I thought I'd ask this loaded question as I am trying to determine what to

offer package wise, album wise, etc... I am rethinking it all. I want to keep it

simple yet I want to encompass what people expect from a photographer.

<p>

Please explain to me briefly what you offer. Your packages consist of what?

How are your prices structured?, Do you offer albums.. if so what album

service do you use?, Include Cd's/Dvd's or Do you online proof? etc...

Do you post all this info on your site yes or no, why?

<p>

I am not so much looking for advice on what I should do, I just want to hear

what you all have tried and or why something works or hasn't worked for you.

Thanks in advance

[errol young]

I live in an inner city area of Toronto and have had some success offering a relatively inexpensive package that makes me some cash on the weekends.

 

for $650 I offer proofs on a cd, a set of index prints covered by a collage of my creation, a 11X14, an 16 print 8X10 album (I get them for $20) and 50 thankyous. Full coverage of the day.

 

I offer them a better album, fancy scrapbook type for $150 more with 5 more prints. They usually order $40-120 more from my price list.

[fotografz]

Usual Package:

 

Shoot wedding/reception; process images; pull contact sheet(s) of all; burn DVD and CD-

ROM of all corrected images on those contact sheets. Select 40 images and print them.

Assemble album.

 

Works: Shooting digital for mostly candid work or unstructured stuff. Don't mind the

processing part because it's interesting and creative.

 

Doesn't work: Digital for procession, formals and groups ... boring, repetious, and time

consuming to computer process. Have come to prefer film and labs for this... then scan

just the selects for the album (3 to 7 images)

 

Works: Gang proofing all the images on contact sheet(s) and providing a DVD with

numbered tiff files ... plus a CD-ROM with all of them in j-peg form.

 

Doesn't work: giving all the files to the client as part of the package. It forces all the

images to be converted and fully corrected as tiffs ...and all the work required on

hundreds of images. Would be better/faster left as Updated RAW files and set to Contact

Sheet II and then only further correct and print the selects.

 

Works: Organize 100 to 170 images in iPhoto, add music and send to iDVD to burn a

movie to play on TV. Fairly fast and inexpensive to make. BIG hit with clients. Clients like/

use this more than the album sometimes.

 

Doesn't work: sending images off for an album to be made. Too expensive in relation to

over-all price that can be commanded in this area.

[todd frederick]

I'm totally rethinking what I want to do with weddings. I've been doing weddings for over 15 years. I have been transitioning from film to digital this past year.

 

I like Marc's outline.

 

I too am thinking of making only proof sheets of selected images (200+/-) rather than a proof album, providing a CD of only the selected acceptable images (never any rejects!), and a simple, nice display album of digital prints (24-36), of my own choosing, for about $1500.

 

I'm trying to keep it simple, economical, and nice for the couple.

[clickeye]

Here's what I'm offering for 2005, based upon what worked for me this first year:

 

Weddings $125 per hour, five hours minimum; assistant photographer gets $25 per hour out of that.

 

I use a Canon 10D and 20D, shooting JPEG, large, fine, AWB, flash almost always.

 

I shoot the formals and posed shots. During the reception I go table to table and pose small groups of acquaintances. My assistant shoots all the candids. The goal between us for an eight-hour wedding is 1000 images. I'm trying for 9 good shots out of every 10, although this year my average was around 4 out of 5.

 

After the wedding I select the best 300 images to give to the client; my contractual commitment is only 100 images though. Selection, straightening, cropping and minor color correction takes me about three hours using ACDSee. Then I generate thumbnails, low-resolution and high-resolution files as an overnight batch job using BreezeBrowser.

 

The customer gets two CDs, one with the thumbnails and low-res images, another with the high-res images, together with a single sheet of instructions for viewing and printing the files, and an advertisement offering my retouching and custom printing services.

 

With digital, I find that the biggest post-shoot time is spent in color correction. By using flash nearly always I greatly reduce the need for color correction. I've also become very fast at color correction when it's needed.

 

You might think it strange that I pose groups at their tables. I have a strong background in the souvenir photo industry so I'm skilled at posing reluctant subjects. Brides come to me with the usual idea that they "only want good candid photos that tell the story of their wedding; no stiff formals," but when they see my sample albums they tell their betrothed, "What I like about these albums is that he takes good group photos."

[cjogo]

We shoot film still >> and have a CD {4.6meg each} made at the time of processing. Generally 6 to 10 rolls --then deliver prints/negs/Cd to B&G in about 3 days. $625 per hour with a CD == usually about 5 hours max. Just 28 years of experience--money up front --no "backsale" ~~ no albums ~~ no enlargements. Low Cost ++ Straight profit *

[casey mcallister]

c jo gough:

 

I've seen a few scanned posts that you've shown us that are nice!

 

Indeed, you're good!

 

As a CPA/IT person by day it's my feeling that $625 per hour is a rip off. I live in the 'city' of the most brightest/powerful folks on the planet...Washington DC. Your rate is that of a former US Senator who's consulting. You ought to be proud!

 

Kudos on the marketing!

 

Where does one find such inept buyers?

 

Inquiring (stupid) minds want to know!

 

How come you're not publicly known? Gough does not give doodle on google. At that $ rate, I would have at least expected to see more.

 

Prey tell, show us your website to legit your biz...

 

This is not an envy post; rather it's a confused/misled non believing listener...

[casey mcallister]

"Your rate is that of a former US Senator who's consulting. You ought to be proud!"

 

We'll maybe not...Senators=Scamotor's

 

None the less, your rates are not right for today, let alone tommorow!

 

The days of 8 hrs for $5K are about as analogous to buggy whips as accessories to Fords.

 

Have you noticed the number of new entrants to this service line. Everybody is a 'pro' nowadays!

 

Wedding 'pros' are a dime a dozen, of which a dozen are qualified.

[fotografz]

That C JO can command those prices is to be commended IMO. He and his colleagues

obviously cater to those who move in the upper economic strata (or are wannabes).

Wealthy people desire consistency, reliability and artistic integrity ... all of which I detect

from C JOs work. The difference between $3,000. and $6,000 or even $10,000 for some

industrialist's or Silicon Valley mogul's daughter's wedding photography is a non issue. It

all depends where you train your marketing sights, and that you have the infrastructure

and talent to deliver what's expected. You have to remember, these clients are those who

drop $150,000 + on wedding, OR place a value on the photos over a serving $100 a bottle

Champagne and flying in a French chef to prepare the wedding meal. Heck, I've shot

weddings for my usual rate, only to find out the cake cost more ; -(

[bruce_rubenstein]

There are photographers who do this make their living doing this and those that do it on the side. If you charge under $1,500 a wedding you either have a day job, or live in a cardboard box. You can charge whatever the perceived value is of what you are selling. People can, and do, charge 5, 10, 20 thousand dollars to shoot a wedding because their clients think that they're worth it. It's not easy to work your way into that end of the business, and it will probably never happen if you think of wedding photography as a way to make a few extra bucks on the weekends.

[carl photography]

Gary Fong charges $20,000 per day.

 

Ever since the Nixon era, has-been Washington lackeys have raked in that much moola for giving after-dinner speeches describing their chicanery, downfall and inevitable "born-again conversion."

 

Some wealthy patrons support artists, rather than Republican fund-raisers....

 

"Brandon's Dad"

[photoreu]

$625 an hour does sound like a lot, at first.. but really it's not. $3,125 for a 5 hour wedding and they get prints, negatives, and a CD? That's hardly a rip off.

[e.m.]

"If you charge under $1,500 a wedding you either have a day job, or live in a cardboard box."

 

Or possibly maybe a student...Also Gary Fong's images are not that impressive....In my opinion he is an ok photographer but a master businessman...Ed

[aka eve adams]

OK, lets not take any jabs at republicans here, that has nothing to do with photography... i'm a republican...and while i'm at it the comments on "womens titties" on some of these posts are sort of offensive too.

secondly, I think it's awsome that cj can make a good living. He is very talented, I personally couldn't have wedding photos made of my own, not 1 picture of the entire event, but if i could have, i would have hired cjo in a california minute ;o) which is where he is, the area he is in has a higher cost of living. I am just starting out, and so i charge 300-500 dollars with proofs (film). I'm still learning, but when i get there, i would love to charge that much! Being a good businessman is the key to success, even more important than the photography! but cj is talented in both areas. Now, since we are listing "offensive" comments in spite of constructive answers on photo net now, You people who always put snotty remarks on peoples genuine questions, here is one for you.... men included "get off the rag, or shut up" If you hate helping people so much, why do you read the posts? Is it perhaps because you don't know the answer and don't want to look stupid? Nobody knows you are reading the posts and learning, there is no reason for "penis envy" on here... or do some of you "potty mouths" have "little man syndrome"....good grief... let's talk photography, not have our venting sessions at other folks expense! Thank you to those of you who always put in a helpful word, and never make anyone feel less than human. To those of you with bitter spirits, shame on you.

[jeffcallen]

I really like Eve's post, as well as Marc Williams. CJ's idea is interesting.

<P>We need to remember that (1)Location and (2) Service are at least as important as the

"product" of the images/albums/etc. <P>

Very high priced photographers remember that this is a service, and that part of their fee

is due to their gravitas, their social ability to get CEO's to stand in a line like everyone else,

or maybe their ability to get a nice candid of somebody who's spent most of their life

avoiding paparazzi. The clients comfort-level is why many people are hired for just about

any professional service business.

[adam_nance]

Eve Adams! Did you just shame the people on the board with "bitter spirits?" I suggest you reread your own post and consider who's the one with the bitter spirits. My goodness. I sincerely hope your day gets better.

 

To the poster who asked about c jo gough's website, I believe this is it:

http://fp2k.redshift.com/cjogo/

 

To the original poster... my wife and I charge $1,800 for a full-day package with two photographers including 500 4x6 proofs, 1,200-ish 6mp digital jpegs on a DVD and all negatives. We're underpriced on this right now, and we're booking like crazy for next summer. We've been in this professionally for a couple of months and will raise prices once we've got 30 or so weddings booked for 2005. We don't offer albums yet, and I'm really not sure what to do about this. I like Errol's idea about a 16 page 8x10 album. It'd be nice to keep things simple and cheap. Folks paying $1,800 for photography are likely to scoff at a $2,000 album from Leather Craftsman.

 

Hope that helps a little,

Adam

[cjogo]

There are many of you of whom average $1000-2500 total gross , per event. So my price, is not that far, beyond the normal. The reasons are many; why I & others,{ with 25+ years in this business} ~~ can command the seemingly higher prices. --But just one of the big factors , for us, is the competition in our area, is way above our pricing. So we seem like a bargin! An old adage from us, I know > but you have to "enlighten" your clients < the worth of their owning the negatives. Many B&G would love to purchase more enlargements from their photographer. But they may only have a budget of $4-700 and then maybe a $300 album. Sell them the negatives ^^ and they can leisurely/funds permitting\ ^^ make all the prints they want ! Why should the album or photo lab ...be cutting into your profit? Just offer the same packages you offer now --but have a price (about the gross you expect from reprints/albums/etc.) that includes the negatives & a CD. Much less work for you and for sure more profit. They are not forced to take the upper priced package...but it is theirs' for the purchase. If the B&G cannot afford our standard package---we always offer a several lower quality products --but the bride seems to find the extra $ for our top services.

[cjogo]

William "How come you're not publicly known? Gough does not give doodle on google. At that $ rate, I would have at least expected to see more."

 

~~~~ might check crystal studios

 

We really do no advertising..just word of mouth..referrals. The net only succeeds in bringing "shoppers", it seems.

 

Prey tell, show us your website to legit your biz...

 

 

http://fp2k.redshift.com/cjogo/ === lot of 80& 90's shots..since we sell the negs and deliver in 3 days..not much time to scan a image or two..will upload many new shots in January, though...

 

This is not an envy post; rather it's a confused/misled non believing listener.

 

 

 

~~~~~~~ Just have to give "good phone"...we had about 7-10% of our clients visit the studio, last year. So you really have to sell over the phone , in our market. >> Assure the B&G you know very well, the venue, where the event will take place. Time tables are a very big factor ...we make them at ease with our precise track record ! (Never more than 21 minutes after the ceremony ) We do require at least 90 minutes pre-ceremony, however. A big bonus is the fact that we help orchestrate the day. Simple things like :: make sure everyone is seated on time for the ceremony--give the cue to the musicans to start the whole procession---make sure guests are seated for the dinner--coordinate with the band/dj for first dance/cake , etc ( if we stay that long. ) Lot of really helpful support:: for a B&G whom are planning this from usually, many States away. Of course the offer of $10 back ~~ for every photo not deemed quality,,,helps alot

[andrew_sanderson]

Eve,

 

You dont sound like a republican. Dont know if the GOcP (Good Old conservative Party)

would appove of (imagine GWB's voice) a lady talkin dat way :)

 

Just having some fun... dont take me seriously.

 

As the pledge says... "one nation"

[aka eve adams]

Adam, i don't have a bitter spirit. I just feel horrible for all these new people who come on here asking advice with anticipation, and people with some sort of issue slamming them, making rude comments, and not offering anything that could contribute to the question at hand. I also get frustrated with the comments that i mentioned, and thought how do you like it when your body parts are getting thrown around the forum in a derogatory way.??? I don't care if people disagree with me, or if they believe differently, that's not why i come to photo.net. If i want to talk politics, i go elsewhere. I come here to talk about photography, and so does everyone else..... so how do the rude comments help someone take better pictures? everyone started somewhere! You didn't wake up ansel adams! you took a few pictures from too far away, you took some pictures where you cut off the feet, you took some pics where it was not exposed properly! i'm not having a bad day, but people should be able to post without getting attacked. no i don't feel shame for my post, i think it was a long time coming.... perhaps we should start a list of those who never contribute anything but nasty comments? Perhaps it's because they don't know the answers, and are too arrogant to admit it. Be positive people! you are dragging me down!

[adam_nance]

Eve, in my opinion--and this is my opinion only--no one on a public message board should talk about women's titties; nor should they say things like, "get off the rag or shut up;" nor should they call people stupid, or accuse someone of penis envy; nor should they call people potty mouths, or assign "little man syndrome" to anyone.

 

I don't read every thread on photo.net, but so far you're the only person I've seen on this board do any of these things.

 

I'm in agreement with you insofar as I also find the derogatory comments in response to folks genuinely looking for help annoying and insulting. But nobody has ever won an argument on an internet message board by sinking to a lower level of discourse. It's likely that the malcontents who post nastiness will simply feed off the anger of others and post more often and more malevolently.

 

I suggest we kill them with kindness or ignore them altogether.

 

I meant no offense with my earlier post. And I certainly didn't mean to say that you have a bitter spirit. I simply meant that I saw bitterness in your post. Typing fast on a message board, our words don't always convey what we want them to.

 

Anyhow, that's all I have to say on the subject. I shouldn't have commented on your post in the first place because it's none of my business what you write, I was just shocked by a bitter post scolding people for bitterness, and I felt compelled to respond. Especially because it came in a thread where (to my mind) no one has attacked anyone.

 

Best wishes,

 

-Adam

[aka eve adams]

I would agree with you to a certain extent. I only used those terms to emphasize the offensiveness of how it feels from the other side, and my last post only the first statement applied to you. It is discouraging to see so many angry responses to so many innocent questions... i just had finally had my fill.. end of discussion on my part. sorry to hijack your thread.

[chris m., central florida]

I'm booking each wedding at an average of $1,500 for 2005. I'm starting to land more $2K weddings, but I've been at this for a while so my skills and packaging are improving. My goal is $2,500 per wedding and then hire a part time employee to handle sales, phone calls and some admin work.

 

For the smaller weddings ($1250 or so) I offer a custom imprinted black proof book with cameo front and presentation box (bride and groom's name on the front, my studio name and contact info imprinted on the inside of the cover), 220 proofs in the book, rest of the prints delivered in print boxes, web viewing and ordering, and a $100 credit towards prints (which cost me far, far less) or a formal album order. I give my clients CDs of their JPG image files after all work has been delivered.

 

For any wedding $1,500 or over, I offer a complimentery engagement session as an incentive. They get online viewing, and a set of prints delivered in a print box. They usually pay for a signature book or signature mat frame, plus I get enlargement orders. If I have the need to fill a weekend and I have a client not willing to pay much, sometimes I'll throw in an engagement session. No matter how you look at it, these sessions are fun.

 

My reprint orders are $100 - $300 or so per wedding, they order from the web hosting site. I simply get a check every month. The key to getting reorders is to get the images out there as quickly as possible so friends, family and guests can order. The biggest sellers are of the bride and groom, their family, and parents of kids, especially little boys and girls. Also young couples who are not married yet.

 

I am preparing to post exact package pricing online. I'm getting lots of price shoppers, and I'd rather that they just know my prices up front before calling me. If I ever get into the $4K weddings down the road, I'll stop posting prices, but it takes a while to build the referral business that brings in more expensive clientele.

[zo]

I think a majority people cringe on the price of high end photographers because they themselves cannot afford it. I always get people who want cheap out on their photography, and of course they themselves aren't educated enough to know the difference, so what do I say? Sorry, but I can't do it. Case closed. I want a client who understands that years of experience, quality product, quality equipment, and of course quality work equates to higher prices. Everyone is so hard up to take a quick buck. This is where digital is hurting the value of professional product. The consumer's knowledge about the craft is declining. It is really sad. I really think they should have never made point and shoot past 2 megapixel for under $500. I think the bubble had burst for the professional photographer when the technology opened up to the masses.

[al_kaplan1]

Blue, the same thing could have been said about the rangefinder cameras of the 1960's like the Canonette and similar auto exposure cameras from Yashica, Minolta, Konica, etc. They all have 1 to 1/500 shutters and very decent 40 or 45mm lenses of f/2 or faster. The only thing against them back then was film quality. 35mm was still too grainy compared to the Rolleiflex and Hasselblad photos the pros were turning out. Now a lot of film shooting pros are using these 30 and 40 year old cameras as a quiet adjunct to their SLR's.