Looking for 1st TLR

[mike_thomas7]

Greetings,

I am contemplating getting a used TLR and am not sure what to look

for. Budget is a serious consideration/limitation. I shoot mostly

landscape and natural light portraits in 35mm. After reading some

other posts I am not sure whether I should look at a brand like

Seagull, Lubitel or wait for a Rollei? Also do any of the older/less

expensive models have built in meters or will I need to get a light

meter? Thanks very much.

Mike

[enrico__]

I'll leave the light meter debate to someone else...

I personally only use handheld meters.

 

If you are serious about getting some sort of decency in quality then go for a rollei or a mamiya tlr. Depends on your budget ofcourse but these can be picked up for rather good prices.

 

Read through the Archives about these outfits, there is much to look out for however they are very simple to use.

[mike_elek]

A TLR is no place for a tight budget. Here's why:

 

The top-shelf TLR (the Rolleiflex) will cost you a considerable amount of cash -- generally more than $200 with the Planar models starting at $350 and moving up.

 

The bargain-bin TLR, such as the Seagull, simply isn't worth the price because of its very questionable reliability record, given the many posts on those cameras. It's throwing good money down the drain.

 

A low-cost TLR is your best option. That would be the Minoltacord, Rolleicord or the Yashica TLR -- roughly $75-$175. There's also the Ikoflex, though you want the one with the Tessar and not the Novar.

 

With the older TLRs, you need to assume that it will require servicing. That will run you on average of about $150. If you can find one that has been correctly serviced, then go for that.

 

I wouldn't trust the meters in these old cameras. Maybe they work; maybe they don't. Assume they don't.

 

Others certainly will add their own stories, including some who found very good deals. And hopefully, you'll be able to do that as well.

 

I have no experience with the Lubitels, so I won't comment on those.

[pavelp]

Seagulls have reliability problems and are no better than older TLRs. Lubitel is very cheap but has red window for winding film and it can leak and fog the film. Also, Lubitel's viewfinder is difficult to use.

 

Rolleicord, Rolleiflex, Minolta Autocord, Ricoh Diacord or Richohmatic, Mamiya TLR (Mamiyaflex or any of the C-series) or Yashica (A, D, 124, 124G) are all good and reliable cameras. And I am sure there are others. Get one of them in decent shape and it should serve you well.<br><br>

 

If you are really into portraits, you may want to give serious consideration to <a href=http://www.glasseyeproductions.org/c330f/index.htm>Mamiya TLR<a>, because it has interchangeable lenses. <a href=http://www.glasseyeproductions.org/135/index.html>Mamiya Sekor 135mm lens</a> is four element Tessar like lens, perfect for <a href=http://www.glasseyeproductions.org/135/pages/test1350008.html>portraits</a>. 105mm is not bad either and if you want still something longer, you can use 180mm. Mamiya TLRs are generally bigger and heavier than other TLRs but it's a system (as opposed to fixed lens camera).<br><br>

 

About the meter: do yourself a favor and forget about built-in meters. Most of the meters are selenium uncoupled meters and they will drive the price of camera quite high. You can get TLRs with CdS meters, but you still have problems finding correct batteries (or have to buy battery adapters). It is much easier to get yourself a decent reflected/incident handheld meter. Luna Pro SBC is about $70 on eBay, it's very accurate and very sensitive meter with great user interface (takes standard 9V batteries).

[bueh]

Get a Yashica-Mat 124G. Has a surprisingly good build-in light meter, but of course a modern hand-held meter is better in some situations (but experience can make that up). Great Tessar-like lens that is quite sharp even wide open (but of course not as perfect as a way too expensive Rolleiflex). I got one in excellent condition for less than $100 on an internet auction site.

<br>

Or spend twice that amount for a even better Mamiya TLR with interchangable lenses.<p>

I wouldn't waste my money on an old camera that needs a CLA, a Seagull, a Lubitel or any other cheap 3-element lens TLR with a bad reputation. I'm not that wealthy.

[jeff_lu]

for the image quality delivered by a rollei tlr, the couple hundred bucks for a working rollei

isn't too much. its cheaper than most 35mm slr+lens combos. and those 35mm usually

don't have a nice zeiss/schneider lens and definitely don't carry the larger film. a rollei tlr

will last a while, too.

[rich815]

You can get a beater, but perfectly useable Rolleicord on eBay for $50-100. I know because I bought one for $55 and it is awesome (and no, I do not mean just Triotars). Forget Seagulls they are absolute garbage with poor workmanship and poor quality control. Lubitels as well. Both are cabale of good images but unfortunately fall apart pretty quickly. My Lubitel's lens came right off in my hands. And I've had a few Seagulls (bought cheaply in Beijing) which while sharp, had problems eventually (one the shutter springs just came apart and shot everywhere, another the lens focus alignment went out). Go for proven quality and workmanship. Go look at eBay right now. There's numberous Rolleicords there. And if your search completed auctions a few closed not long ago at very affordable prices.

[alan_gage]

There are so many different Rolleiflex models it's tough to know which are which without a lot of research (I still don't know). I bought a Rolleiflex for $80 on Ebay and knew I'd have to have it CLA'd (about $115). Then the screen was too dang dark so I I spent another $150 to have it replaced with a Maxwell. Even after all this I still wasn't terribly satisfied with it. It was a nice, quiet camera; but it was from the early 50's (automat IV I believe) and had seen a lot of use. I ended up selling it because SLR's got so cheap and I wanted something different.

 

If you're buying this to get your feet wet in MF then I'd skip a Rolleiflex. I'd buy something cheaper (but still very good) like a Minolta Autocord or Yashica 124 and expect to have it CLA'd when I bought it. Paul Ebel did 2 TLR's for me. The Rolleiflex was $115 and needed some shutter parts replaced and an old Yashica 635 was only $85. There's an Autocord on Ebay right now that's being sold with an innoperative shuter. I'd probably buy something like that and pay to have it CLA'd; unless you can find one for sale that's be recently done.

 

If you know that a TLR is something you really want and it isn't just experimental then I'd definitely consider a nice Rolleiflex, but make sure you do your research so you know what you're getting.

 

Alan

[ted_white2]

I've owned several Rolleicords and a Mamiya. The Mamiya was a tank. Big, heavy, really more of a studio camera than a carry camera. The Rolleicords have great lenses (stay away from the very early models) and you can actually shoot action with them.

 

However, a camera that is in many ways just as good, and a hell of lot cheaper, are the Yashica Mat 124 and 124G's. You can pick one up on ebay for about a hundred bucks, then play with it and see if you like the 6X6 format (like looking through a window, on poster described it). Also see if you like fiddling with, by comparison to a 35mm SLR, a clumsy, hard to handle and hard to see through camera. However, when you figure it out and begin to appreciate it (no heart-wrenching decisions about whether to hold the camera horizontally or vertically!)

 

As others have said, forget depending on the meter in these cameras. Pick up a good handheld meter. Rolleicords don't even have meters.

 

Another sleeper is the Minolta Autocord TLR. Better build quality than the Yashica, apparently a better meter, and equally good lenses. They might even be a bit cheaper.

[john_elder1]

The Rolleiflex is an exceptional camera if you get one in good condition. Remember when it was made it was probably the top professional camera. The German quality is great. After shooting a 35mm for 18 years I was surprised how much I love my 3.5E. Last sunday I shot it for 6 hours at a used car lot I had been trying to get access to for 3 years. What a shoot. Its also a geat stret camera. Go for the qualty.

[markplawchan]

DON'T DO IT!!!!RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!! I bought a Yashicaflex 124 6mos ago--now I have, (in addition), a Yashica C (c.1958) and 2 Rolleiflexes--one built in 1948, the other in 1938. A TLR will "attract" others (TLR's) until even your loved ones will look at you curiously...(I think at first, they thought I was buying ROLEXs')

[markplawchan]

Make that Yashicamat--not Yashicaflex....

[enrico__]

Very good point made by Mark! - once you buy your first TLR.. you tend to want to buy everyone else's too!!

Dont get addicted!

[jorn ake]

I actually think that the Yashica D is a better bargain that the Yashica 124 cameras. The 124 and the 124G are now priced in the over $200 range in a lot of places. While I think the 124 is a better deal than the 124G (more durable crank,) the Yashica D frequently has the same lens set up for less money. Yes, you have to cock the shutter and yes, you have a non-sexy winding knob rather than the winding crank, but you also have spare change for film. Check out the Frugal Photographer for an equally opinionated version: http://www.frugalphotographer.com/YashicaTLR.htm

 

After that you can save your pennies for a Rolleicord Vb or a Rolleiflex 2.8C user for somewhere around $500.

[simonpg]

Mike, I suggest you forget Seaguls (with all due respect to those with one) as you will be soon wanting to get something of real quality - reliability and decent optics to do justice to the neg size.

 

A great novice user choice today is a Mamiya TLR - well made and good optics. You can even buy interchangable lenses for it. Now they go very cheap in good order.

 

Myself I have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, which I bought opportunistically at a very good price in mint condition with an active meter that is very very accurate (for film at least). However, I use a hand held meter for very serious shots. I just love it and the results are great. However these are getting to be quite serious money so just seach on-line stores like KEH to get an idea off values.

 

A TLR is very worthwhile having and may even point you towards serious MF gear too when you see the images. The TLR will not become redundant though.

 

A final tip as with buying any gear - decide what suits you best (how you will use it, what you expect of it etc), then use you budget to buy what you've decided as well as you can. If you are short don't change and buy junk - wait and save 'til you have the money. You'll end up poorer and have a camera you do not like.

 

Happy hunting.

[frank_philcox1]

Heres my advice: get something as new as possible. Don't get an old fogey 1950's Rollei or any other ancient beast. You will think it quaint originally but you'll end up selling it. Get a mechanically smooth camera, one that is not on the verge of seizing up and a camera with a bright clear viewing screen. You will want something that you can focus with relative ease and relatively quickly, with a smooth shutter and crank. This is a camera you will enjoy using and hence will continue to use. So, get a newer or little used Yashicamat or my choice would be a clean mint Mamiya 220F or 330S.

[StuartMoxham]

Personaly I would concentrate on getting something in good clean working condition with clear clean optics. As for what make the Yashicas are good value for money the Yashica A is usually very cheap but has limited shutter speed range B 25, 50, 100, 300 but you can use it and make great pictures. The Yashica D is more desirable but more expensive then the Yashicamats are more again but have a better lens but some feel the the winders are weak. The Rolliecord is the cheaper of the Rollies then the Rollieflex is probably considered to be the best fixed lens TLR but come with a bigger price tag.

[goemon]

I have a Yashica 124G, and while it's wonderful they're not cheap these days, and additionally you will really really want to have it professionally cleaned and adjusted before you start using it seriously, which is extra money. The 124 and 124G have built in meters but mine doesn't work particularly well and I really don't care anyway; I prefer to use a handheld (I used a Weston Master III for some time until it started wigging out on me; it was a pretty decent meter although hard to use indoors).

 

You could also get one of the Rolleis, which have an excellent reputation and a similar price. The Mamiya C330 is a very good camera but it's not as light and casual as IMHO a TLR should be.

 

I don't know the really cheap ones for anything but the previous posters don't seem to think they're worth much. I certainly wasn't tremendously impressed by the Seagull I used once.

[garry edwards]

Lots of good advice above.

 

The only thing I'd add is that cosmetic condition is important because Rolleiflex and Mamiya used to be the tools of choice for professional photographers, so cameras that look as if they've had a hard life may be a risky buy

[paulh]

Another option that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is a Flexaret / Meopta. These are Czech cameras, you can get usually get a good one for US$ 50-70, or US$100-120 for the VI or VII off everyone's favourite auction site. There is a Slovak seller there that has a good reputation, and always seems to have a few of them (tested) available. You're not paying the "collectors" premium for these, and they still seem quite reasonable users.

 

Paul

[mskovacs]

Mike what exactly is your budget? I went through a variety of Rolleiflexes (fortunately borrowed) before I settled on my current (old fogey!) 2.8E with the superb Schneider Xenotar lens. I have about $600-700 invested in this camera including purchase, repairs and a Maxwell screen.

 

The Rolleiflex is an excellent camera, actually superb for what it was designed to do: take tack sharp MF photos with a fixed (normal) lens in a compact, hand-holdable package. As much as I love my Rollei, I find myself wanting a MF SLR as well. Looking at your interests, if you want to shoot landscape/portraits with anything other than a normal lens you will become uneasy with the Rollei. Personally I strongly yearn for a telephoto lens for my landscape work and portraits. Close focusing is another problem. I like to take tight nature macros in 35mm and its simply not workable with the Rollei. Framing, background control and depth of field control are all better with an SLR.

 

I asked about your budget because I'm leaning towards something like an Mamiya RB or RZ67 system with wide, normal, tele lenses. Its a tank to haul in the field but I'm still young and strong. If I eliminate the portrait work requirement, I might even consider a view camera and shoot 120 roll film or even sheet film.

 

I hope I'm not confusing things more for you!

[carl photography]

We have two 124G TLRs, a Pentacon Six SLR outfit with three lenses and closeup accessories, and a Mamiya 645E outfit with three lenses.

 

I prefer the Mamiya 645E overall. We use a 124G for outdoor flash shots at high shutter speeds, when shooting dog portraits at ground-level, and for our young son's use in our environmental-portrait sessions.

 

"Brandon's Dad"

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

I owned, and sold, a Mamiya 330f. Nice camera, but way too heavy, and bulky, for my needs.

[ben z]

I have two Rolleiflexes, one is an f/2.8, and the other is a Tessar f/3.5. Both cameras were bought from the same small-town camera store and had come out of estates and were sent out to Mr. Fleenor for overhauls. I bought Beatty Intenscreens for both of them from B&H and put them in myself. Wider than f/11 I'm not crazy about the Tessar lens which isn't very sharp except in the very center (and it's one of the later, definitely coated ones). For landscape shooting the Tessar (or the similar Xenar) is fine, stopped down to 11 or smaller. For portraits unless the subject's face is in the middle of the frame, I would look for a Planar or Xenotar, either 3.5 or 2.8. But for the cost of a user 2.8 and an overhaul and a Beatty Intenscreen you could easily pick up a late Hasselblad 500 C/M with an 80 f/2.8 and an A12 back and a used Acu-Matte screen. And be able to get other lenses for it later.

[pavelp]

Some responses brought up a very valid point: depending on what your budget and needs are, you might be able to afford an SLR. Mamiya RB67 Pro S is currently at $400 (or so) for basic kit (camera, finder, normal length lens, film back). Bronica prices are in free fall and even though the company no longer exists, the cameras will be around for long time. Mamiya 645 is another system to look at.

 

The price situation changed a lot during last two years (or so) and MF SLRs are now very affordable. There's nothing wrong with TLRs but the price difference is just much smaller than it used to be so you may want to investigate other options.