Your advice on specific lighting setup for SOUL TRAIN wedding

[scott squire nonfiction]

I need some lighting advice. The reception I'm shooting this weekend is a late-afternoon-

evening affair, with a "Soul Train" theme--'70s, Funk, crushed purple velvet, lighted disco

floor, gelled spotlights, and "lots of Black folks in full bling mode," (to use the bride's

phrase).

 

The hall will be pretty dark, and so will the much of the clothing. I don't think there'll be

any white light, unless I bring it, so true-to-life flesh tones are pretty much out of the

question. That's

okay with me, and it's okay with the bride and groom--as long as the pictures are

interesting, fun, lively, and say, "Par-TAY!" I want to make pictures that suit the theme,

that have a sort of '70s look.

 

Which might be a lot to hope for, given my relative innocence in the field of lighting.

 

I shoot a Canon 10D, with a 550EX, and I was figuring to rent a couple of monolights and

stands, and stick them up high at either end of the dancefloor, gel them a little maybe

(one just a

bit warm, the other maybe blue... depending upon what the hall light setup will be. I want

to have a little fill light on-camera from the 550EX, but the idea is for it to look like it's

pretty much available light.

 

They won't want huge enlargements probably, so ISO800 and

maybe even 1600 will be fine. Lenses=nothing slower than 2.8, and I'm pretty comfortable

shooting in the dark generally.

 

Trouble with all of this is I only _sort of_ know how to do it, in theory. So I'm seeking

advice. Main points of insecurity below:

 

**I'm going to scout the hall tomorrow (shoot's Saturday), but I don't think it's HUGE.

Wedding party is around 100 people. Two lights plus house lights enough?

 

**Should I just be able to set this and forget it--running basically the same exposure (or

at least EV) for every picture on the floor when its lighted as I'm describing?

 

** Will I need triggers, like Pocket wizards, or should the strobes' slave sensors trigger

reliably off my camera flash?

 

**Should I use umbrellas, open reflectors (my inclination, to keep the lights unobtrusive),

one gridded reflector (to add a bit of sparkle across the highlights?), or... something i

haven't thought of?

 

**I know enough to be sure the cabling is all secured and the stands are sandbagged or

otherwise secured... what other concerns should a lighting newbie be thinking of? Any

don't-miss doo-dads I need in my bag?

 

**Here's a list of what I believe I'll need. Please help me to complete/pare down/modify-

as-needed: 2 monolights, 2 stands, one big clip with light-mount, 2 reflectors, extension

cords, gaffer's tape, colored gels and clips, sandbags or other stand-securing means, 1 set

pocket wizards (?), 20 degree grid(?).

 

**Am I barking up the wrong tree? Should I just stick a speedlite on a stroboframe and

shoot the place up with that, spare all the complexity of rentals and light setup?

 

I really want the pictures to sing for these clients, so if there's a better than 50% chance I

could make a good setup by following simple instructions to light the thing, I'd like to do

it that way...

 

...with your good help. I've not posted to this forum before, but have learned much and

enjoyed the environment very much here.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Jerry_]

Since you are learning at the wedding, how much do you plan on spending for the 'photography course?' If, in three days, you find enough equipment to shoot the wedding, the place to practice would be at the wedding. Not a grand idea.....

[teresa_earnest]

I probably can't help much, but I haven't had the most success with my 550's firing from the transmittor or even as a slave. Also, for post processing try neatimage.com if the images are grainy at 1600.

 

Wish I could help more.

Teresa

[scott squire nonfiction]

Gerald,

I plan on renting the stuff for an extra day, ahead of time, and on setting it up in the hall

ahead. Obviously it's not ideal, of course, But I'm a reasonably competent photographer,

and the B&G know what time it is. They're getting a good price, I'll shoot the shots I know I

can nail, and we'll do some 'a little bit out there' stuff too, by the bride's special request.

 

Look at the part of my post where I say, "if there's a better than 50% chance I could make a

good setup by following simple instructions to light the thing, I'd like to do it that way..."

 

Tell you what, Gerald, if you give me the setup I need on paper, and it works out fine, I'll

give you a cut of the very modest take. (Is that what this forum is about now, then?)

 

If I am out of line with such a big question, please let me know. In any event, it's in good

faith and a genuine interest in doing a good job that I come here. I expect once I've got

some more extensive wedding experience under my belt, I'll be a generous contributor as

well.

 

Thanks,

[bruce_rubenstein___nyc]

Setting up lights on stands will probably blow away the effect house lights. Don't try to light the space; only light the subjects. Set your camera exposure to capture the lighting, and use some flash to expose the people. The best additional lighting, to keep things dramatic, would be to only use off camera flash. You would have an assistant with a light on a pole (with a radio trigger), and they would light from around 45? from the side and above the subject.

 

You could try two lights aimed at, and crossing the dance floor, but you don't want them set at high power.

[fotografz]

Not out of line IMHO. It's not like the usual wedding experience would be of much help

here anyway ; -)

 

First off forget the use of mono strobes triggered by your on-camera flash. Yes, it would

most likely work, but it'll also work for every guest and their P&S, which people will most

certainly have at such a party/wedding. Your strobes will spend the whole evening

recycling... and you waiting, (been there, done that).

 

Rent three Pocket Wizards (one sender and two receivers) or the like so you can set the

dedicated firing channel and be the only one who can trigger them. I'm not sure you can

hook up the Wizards AND use on camera flash, but the rental place can quickly tell you if

you can or not.

 

Another option is to forget about the Mono Strobes and simulate the Studio 54 Party direct

flash look. It's a look that fits the party. But if that's not your cup of tea, I'd consider

renting a 35/1.4 and using the higher ISO in conjunction with bounce or diffused on

camera flash 'cause those folks are going to be sweating to the oldies ; -)

[picturesque]

It sounds like the plan you have should work, but you do need the Pocket Wizards or other proprietary triggers. I would think that you should maybe talk to the DJ/band to see what kind of lights they might be bringing. I've seen many flashing, colored disco light shows at receptions, and I would think that what with the theme of this wedding, those lights would be present. If so, you won't really need gelled monolights, just your ungelled on-camera flash and a liberal amount of dragging the shutter. I don't know if this is allowed, but there is a thread on the fredmiranda.com forum (Weddings, page 2) called "dance (out of focus)" or something to that effect that outlines a method of holding the snooted flash (snooted by reflector angel) with your hand while shooting to isolate the subject(s) while retaining the background details, each having their respective color balance (subject is "correct" daylight, background is tungsten). You might even try a few with gels on your on-camera, too.

 

Otherwise, if you use two off-camera lights, I'd use purple/magenta or yellowish-green (flourescent), as the background will already be yellow from the tungsten (probably) lighting. And if you're not digital, shoot some non-gelled ones too unless you can test out the whole thing and are confident of your results.

 

When using two off camera lights on a dance floor, I put them on either side of the dance floor and shoot perpendicular to them so as not to get the flash bursts in my frame. Or, if you know that the flash bursts show up as star bursts instead of balls of light, you can put the lights one on either side of the band/DJ and not worry if they show up in the photo. Some lenses, especially wide angles can do this. My 50mm wide on the Hasselblad does (although probably not wide open).

[scott squire nonfiction]

Marc and Nadine... Wow, thanks. Proprietary strobe triggering! Of course! I'll think this

through a bit more and see what I come up with. Meanwhile... keep the thoughts coming.

 

It may well end up being a festival of stroboframe blitzing, and that will be okay too. I just

really want to do something spectacualar.

 

Cheers all,

 

Scott

[scott squire nonfiction]

Oh, and Nadine, Thanks for the ref. to the FM dance pix thread. I've done plenty of draggy

shutter flash stuff on film with Nikon, but had more or less given up on that as a plug-n-

play option with my EOS outfit. For whatever reason, it doesn't want to do that without

some serious thought. Even my old 6006 Nikon gave lovely effects of this kind, painlessly.

 

It'd be a good effect for these clients, tastefully and in moderation, to be sure.

 

Cheers!

[jzpics]

Just something that always works for me. Here are two examples of bouncing mono's off a ceiling. Not the 70's look, but it will open up the area for you. Two monos in opposite ends of the room. On camera transmiter pluged into an SB28 and two receivers on the monos. Adjust them to something like f4.0 and shoot at 5.6 or 8, drag the shutter a bit and you should be fine. These were taken at about 11pm with very little ambient, typical large hall evening wedding. Shooting straight on to me is too directional. First example is a typicl dance shot, the second is an oops where I did not turn off the "remote" switch when shooting toward the one mono.<div></div>

[jzpics]

Here is the oops you have to watch for when having a second light, some like the effect, some don't. May fit with the 70's look?<div></div>

[steve_levine]

It does sound like you are trying "on the job training/experimentation".Im not sure what the wedding's theme,or the bride's skin color has to do with your lighting choices either?It would require a skilled "director of photography", to simulate the type of lighting style used in a particular TV show.

 

Properly shooting/exposing dark skinned people isnt brain surgery,but you can have a disaster if you dont know what you are doing! Have you ever shot a wedding before?Particularly an African-American wedding?

 

Each piece of gear you have described takes a considerable amount of time to learn how to use properly,and to set up!Plus each piece of lighting gear,will have to blend together in their effect in your photos.This isnt something for a 1st timer,or unseasoned vet to ponder.

 

Sounds like you better pick a film & an on camera flash,and shoot some test film of some dark subjects.If you wind up with all "teeth & eyes",like a old time minstrel show,instead of nice skin tones like "Soul Train".You will be in deep do-do with the bride.

[bueh]

<i>70s? Full bling mode?</i> Maybe this might the right time for a cross star filter!

[teresa_earnest]

I hope you'll let us see the results. By the way you talk (or write) it sounds like you're perfect for the "gig"

 

Teresa

[scott squire nonfiction]

Steve: You bet I'm experimenting. Don't you? I really can't imagine what you might mean

by this:

 

<<Im not sure what the wedding's theme,or the bride's skin color has to do with your

lighting choices either>>

 

Are you suggesting that I not take these into account when planning how to light/expose/

shoot? I'm not following.

 

I appreciate your point about <<Every piece of gear you have described takes a

considerable amount of time to learn how to use properly,and to set up!>>, etc. Of course

this is true, and that's why I'm here asking you good people for advice.

 

I'm shooting digital, so I can review what's happening basically in real time. If I take my

best, well-informed shot at running this light setup, making changes as needed, it either

will or won't work.

 

On the dancefloor during the reception, there aren't any scheduled 'Moments', so the

worst that can happen is that I end up shutting it all off and shooting more simply. But if I

don't try, I don't stretch my capabilities. To re-emphasize: If it doesn't work, I chuck it,

very little lost.

 

Bueh: Yeah, I'd actually thought of that, and will be picking up a star filter today! Chuckle

all you like, I'm serious.

 

Bruce: Your remarks are very valuable, particularly re: my lights blowing away the house

lights. Naturally I can (and will) turn mine down, to avoid that. I'm not crazy about filling

the room with white light, when what I really want is the atmosphere of a purple/red/blue

lit disco, with just enough white light to keep the skin tones from blocking up in the deep

purple shadows, and to bring a bit of sparkle to the velvet and sweaty brows.

 

Again, thank you all for your thoughtful comments. Love this place.

[picturesque]

Scott, what camera are you shooting with? Not sure why your Canon won't do the shutter drag thing--manual mode, maybe one second shutter speed...?

 

Test your lenses to see if the star burst pattern shows up with the monolights, because if it does, you won't need the cross star filter--these do soften the image a little. Whether the star effect happens has something to do with the number of shutter blades and the aperture. When I shoot dance candids with my Hasselblad 50mm lens, I don't care much if my off camera light is in the frame because I get the star effect. With my other camera system/lens, I got an ugly ball of light.

[scott squire nonfiction]

Nadine,

It's not that the Canon (EOS 10D in this case) won't do the drag-shutter flash trick. Rather,

it won't do it as simply, intuitively as my old Nikon used to do. I've experimented around

with it some, and it's certainly doable; it's just not a no-brainer like it was with the Nikon.

 

Not to pit the one against the other; I bought the Canon because I liked it better than the

Nikons, and I'm not in the least unhappy with it.

 

None of my lenses gives a consistently satisfying star pattern on hotspots against dark.

Perhaps I need to streak the filters with fingerprint oil. Or buy a Hassie. 8^).

[picturesque]

Scott, reviewing your original question, I wouldn't use umbrellas on the monolites--just the bare reflectored/gelled heads and I wouldn't bounce them either. I think that would light up the place too much and as Bruce said, wipe out the lighting that is there. Not sure I'd use the grid either but since you're digital, you can experiment. I'd try to set up the monolites as accent lights, just to add some colored highlights to people, not use them as the main light. I think I'd shoot the on-camera flash both un-gelled and try a few gelled with a yellow gel. All with liberal shutter drag.

 

When I set up off-camera lights, I try to get rim light on people and/or rake the light pattern over the dance floor, setting the lights maybe a stop under the on-camera. It's important to set them high and feather the light beam over the dance floor.

[fotografz]

I don't get how the Canon is any different than the Nikon. I've shot both extensively (D1X

and Canon 10D). In fact, any camera: set it on Manual Mode and lower the shutter speed.

Maybe you are referring to the Nikon using the aperture control ring on the lens, verses

having to use the wheel on the Canon body ???

[steve_levine]

""Am I barking up the wrong tree? Should I just stick a speedlite on a stroboframe and shoot the place up with that, spare all the complexity of rentals and light setup? """

 

You have answered your own question.

[scott squire nonfiction]

Marc: Yeah, I recognize it's not exactly rocket science. I think the main difference might be

the (too-)much-talked-about step backward in TTL flash metering Canon's digitals took

when they stopped having film to meter off of. I never shot an EOS film camera, flash or

otherwise.

 

All I meant is that with comparable settings (eg, aperture priority, say 400iso, flash set to

provide -1 to -1.7 stops of the total exposure) on both my old Nikon 6006 with SB20

and my new EOS 10D with 550EX, the Nikon made consistently better exposures.

 

It _has_ taken a while to get used to having the aperture control on the dial though...

 

Steve: I see your point. But I'm pretty determined to see if I can make something a little bit

different happen. If I can't, then I fall back on the setup described in the line you quoted as

my answer.

[steve_levine]

The key word is "intuitively". At weddings we must be able to operate our gear in this manner. Unless you are extremely gifted, this type of confidence takes time to master.

 

Through experience one can learn to predict and anticipate their exact results, but this doesnt occur overnight.

 

In order to double light, you "must" have a full understanding of light ratios, and a lot of portrait lighting experience.When I dbl light, I most often have my assistant hold the key light atop a monopod.And the bracket mounted, on camera flash (for fill)is normally set 2 stops below the main light. My assistant has the difficult job of anticipating where her light will fall,(and its shadows), without the benefit of a modeling light.She basically has to run and stay 6 feet off one of my shoulders at all times.

 

 

When I dbl light with stationary room lights, I use a pair of monos at opposite ends of the room.These are each on seperate radio channels, so they dont ever fire at the same time.They are also set to 2 stops brighter than the fill (on camera) light.By switching channels, I can shoot a 60` zone from either side of the room and have flattering (modeling)key light. This entire set up is all balanced with a flash meter.The room lights fire on manual at fixed f stops.The handheld light fires on "auto", at the pre-determined f stop.

 

There are a dozen do's & dont's and various caveats to dbl lighting.It is only by experience , trial & error that this can be learned with your set up.

 

The next issue is the narrow exposure latitude of digital images.Over exposure, and high brightness ranges can wreak havoc,and must be dealt with constantly. This would be compounded by a double lighting scenario also.These are the reasons that I tried to dissuade you from too much lighting exotica.

[johnmarkpainter]

Scott,

 

I would go with a Handheld (or Pole-Held by an assistant) Flash using GELS on the Flash so

that it will fit in with the Dance Floor Lighting.

 

If you flood the room with Flash, it won't look at all like it did in person.

 

jmp