New Leica starter: MP and which lens?

[dave_chadderton]

I'm looking to buy a Leica. For purely reasons I want to buy new.

 

Half of my dilemma is sorted as I've decided on an MP (although I'm

not yet sure whether to go for black paint or chrome?), but I need to

choose a lens(es) to go with it.

 

I'm a little limited by cost; I could go for the new 50/1.4 Summilux

or Tri-Elmar, or I could buy a 35/2 and 50/2.8?

 

Don't ask me what type of photography I do, or which focal length I

use most, as the answer will be even across the board.

 

My thoughts lean towards the following;

 

Black MP with Tri-Elmar (but 0.58 or 0.72). In time I think I will

add both 15/4.5 Heliar and 90/3.5 Lanthar to cover most bases.

 

Alternatively, I am so very tempted by a dream camera;

Black MP with new 50/1.4. I could then add a 35mm and 90mm (prob both

Voigtlander due to cost). The only snag with this system is that I

would have to change lenses more often ...

 

Lastly, does anyone want to lend me $15k, or donate their whole Leica

M collection to me?

 

I'd like to hear your thoughts. Tell me what you would buy new for

about $4500, and why?

[dave_chadderton]

I forgot to add that I would like a reasonably portable system. I count the Tri-Elmar as reasonably portable as when I travel I would only take that and maybe any 90mm I owned. The alternative may involve a 50mm/2.8 plus 2 lenses.

 

To recap:

 

You've got $4500 to spend on new Leica and lens(es). What do you buy, and why?

[moritz_nienburg]

Dave,

 

I would opt in your case for a chrome MP 0,72 with the new 1,4/50 ASPH. Leica M is available light photography. The Tri-Elmar is a rather slow lens. I have many Leica M lenses, I was never thinking of buying the Tri-Elmar. The 0,72 finder is the most versatile choice, the best to start with. I would get a chrome MP, the chrome looks still like new after many years of normal use. But I know there are some fellows who prefer the black paint, which easily wears off. I do not. The new 1,4/50 ASPH is not available in black paint nor silver chrome only in black chrome.

 

Regards Moritz

[ronald_moravec1]

If you are going to do a little of everything, that probably means fastlenses. A new MP and new design 50 lux is overbudget already.

 

How about 50 Nokton. Decent at 1.4. Then 35 1.2 Cosina Voitlander. Save for 90 Sumicron Asph. Even if you sell at a loss, you can`t be out more than you paid.

 

Can`t beat tri elmar unless you get latest glass. 90 CV to match up with it. Then you can get fast lenses as finances permit.

 

It is really hard to advise if we don`t know subject material. You can always use fast lenses stopped down, but a slow one is always slow, although it may have other charms.

[scott_mcloughlin]

I'm shopping right now. I'd say Chrome MP .72 and a chrome 50 f2 Summicron. With black cameras now well associated with "pro cameras," I think a chrome is at once more elegant and less conspicuous. Vast majority of folks will think a chrome body is just a slightly old fashioned P&S. Also I think chrome lenses look goofy on on black bodies, but not vice versa.

 

Many folks prefer a 35mm lens as their general purpose shooter, and so might you. But you asked, and I find the 50mm much more useful. 50 get's me close enough for somewhat tighter people shots, and I like the "subject isolation" it encourages. I do carry a nice, little flash-laden 38mm lens P&S with me just in case, and also have the wonderful and cheap CV 4/21 for going really wide. Also have the CV 2.5/35, but it mostly gathers dust due to my own shooting habits.

 

50 Summicron is plenty fast at f2 and has a wonderful "look." I dunno, but T-E f4 seems kind of slow to me as a general shooter. With an f2 lens, you should be able to shoot sans flash in a reasonably well lit room.

 

I'm actually pretty damn happy with my CV Nokton 50, which is almost a pity because I'd really, really like a 50 Summicron. Can't justify it myself, because I'm about to take the plunge on a Summicron 28. But the 50/2 is definitely the next lens on my todo list :-)

 

Hope that helps.

[al_kaplan1]

If cost is such a factor I wonder why you insist on buying new? It's a starter outfit and you might decide Leica style shooting isn't your thing. It can't be the lenses if you're considering Voigtlander. Frankly, I'm puzzled! Get a used cosmetically challenged M2, get a CLA for it, a new Gossen meter, and an 85/2 Nikkor and either a 35/2 or 35/1.8 Canon lens plus two M adapters. You might even bring it in for under two grand. Put off getting a 50 until you decide you really need one.

[stuart_carroll]

Dave, I have recently puchased my first (new) leica setup (within the last fortnight).

 

I was looking at an MP also but went with a new black paint M6 instead (for cost reasons).

I think the colour choice is totally non-important - believe me both the black and the

chrome look beautiful. I liked the chrome to begin with, but the more I looked the more

the black became attractive. Anyway, I think you can't go wrong with an MP - good

choice. By the way I felt the 0.72 was the most versatile choice. If you want to add a

90mm lens then dont get the 0.58

 

The lens is the most difficult choice. I think the Tri-Elmar is a great lens on paper, but if

you want to shoot anything as the sun goes down or indoors, you'll be out of luck without

a flash, superfast film or tripod.

 

The next question is which lens, and I recently posted a thread on advice for a 35mm lens

last week. I bought the black paint 35mm Summicron f2.0 in the end. I think the 35mm

focal length is a little more versatile than the 50mm, but I plan on buying a 50mm lens

also in the near future.

 

Have you seen these deals on ebay recently ?? Definitely right up your alley and worth a

look. You can 'upgrade' to brand new using buy now and adding $200 to the buy now

price.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&category=30030&item=3831193356&rd=1

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&category=30030&item=3831192494&rd=1

 

Good luck,Stuart

[dave_chadderton]

Sorry to mislead - my budget allows for the MP AND a lens in the cost region up to the new 50/1.4 Summilux (my UK to USD conversion was poor - my budget is ?3500, about $6500, or Euro5300).

 

I could be persuaded by the chrome MP. If I got the 50/1.4, I'd buy the 0.72, but if I chose the Tri-Elmar, would the 0.58 be better? I would like to use a 90mm with the camera and am concerned that the 90mm frame in the 0.58 is too small?

[john_spiers]

If you're only buying one lens, make it a 50. It's the best all purpose lens. I have the collapsible 2.8, and love it.

 

If a 50's good enough for HCB, it should be good enough for us!!

[richard_zevnik]

I'd see if I could find a new old stock M6ttl, a new old stock or

mint 35mm Summicron pre-ASPH, and a mint used 50mm

Summilux. I have a Summitar with adaptor, a '69-'79 generation

50mm Summicron, and a 50mm Summilux. I like the footprint of

all at various times. The color rendition with the Summitar is

really, really nice, even if it's not as sharp as the others. I love the

"pop" of the Summilux wide open with the wonderful out of focus

areas in front of and behind the point of focus.

[Troll]

Let me know when you tire of it, and decide to dump it and spend too much money on something else. I'd say 4-6 months. Max.

[majid]

The canonical focal lengths for the Leica are 35mm and 50mm. Which you prefer is a matter of personal taste. If you get the 35mm, you will be better off with a 0.72x magnification finder. With the 50mm, a 0.85x finder can be a plus, specially for fine focusing at f/1.0 or f/1.4.

 

Your preference for a black MP with a Summilux ASPH seems sound, but the total budget would be more like $5200. I would recommend getting the Konica M-Hexanon 90mm f/2.8 used over a VC Apo-Lanthar.

[dave_chadderton]

Bill. Or Max. Whoever.

 

** Thanks for the constructive comment **

 

I am buying a camera to keep. My other cameras fulfil other, very different creative needs but my decision to buy a Leica comes from a long standing desire to own one.

 

I'm now in a position to buy a new camera with the previously mentioned budget but see my 'entry' as something of a start. And I also buy new cars just because I like to, even though I know it's better value to buy used. I didn't ask for a lifestyle critique, just opinions on cameras and lenses.

 

I love the feel of the quality and precision of the body, and want to create beautiful images with the best equipment. If you think I'll be selling it sometime soon, don't hold your breath while you wait.

 

And I'll spend my (very) hard earned money any way I want.

 

Please stick to the thread; if you can't contribute to the conversation, don't bother.

 

Rant over.

 

Thanks so far to all who have contributed. Please keep your thoughts coming.

[gaijin]

I'm sure you have your reasons for wanting to buy new but that's kind of overkill, especially if this is your first step into Leica. You could buy a near mint M6 classic for about $1100 to $1300, get a good used 50 Summilux (once they hit the used shelves now that the 50 Summilux asph is out), plus a near mint used 4th gen 35 Summicron (or even near mint used 35 Summicron Asph), and throw in a non Asph 90 Summicron and still have several thoudand left over for film and processing so you can get out there and take pictures, lots of pictures.

 

You could buy all of that and use it a lot to see what you really like, then sell it for about what you paid if you decide the MP is what you'd really like to have, along with whatever lens blows your dress up.

[leica ron]

If I had your money:

 

The lens would definitely be a 35 Summilux.

 

Out of 35/50/90, the 50 is my least used.

 

Then, save your cash until you know which way you want to go. It may be toward 28 or 24, or it may be toward a 90.

 

As for Tri-Elmar, the whole point about Leica for me is being able to shoot fast lenses i.e. Summilux and Summicron.

 

As for bodies, a nice used M6 classic or TTL and have the viewfinder upgraded to the MP's.

[________1]

"Don't ask me what type of photography I do, or which focal length I use most, as the answer will be even across the board."

 

What does this mean? You do every type of photography imaginable?

[runkel]

Since you originally noted you were "a little limited by cost," it's not surprising that people would suggest used equipment as a way to make your money go further without giving up any quality or performance.

 

If I were new to Leica and had to spend $6500 on new gear, I'd buy (a) my pick of the MP and the M7 (M7, I think), (b) the 35mm Summilux and © my pick of the 50mm Summicron and the 90mm Elmarit. If you want to have a 35mm and a 50mm and have one of them be f/1.4, it's more cost effective to choose the 35mm as the fast lens because the 50mm Summicron costs a lot less than the 35mm Summicron. To me, for some reason, f/1.4 has always seemed more practical to have in lenses longer or shorter than 50mm. In a longer lens you can keep the shutter speed up and in a shorter lens you can kind of shoot in the dark. The 50mm focal length seems to benefit relatively less from f/1.4, but this is my idiosyncratic view and others will likely disagree.

[stephen_w.]

Dave,

 

You sound like you're well healed, congratulations. Buy whatever finds your fancy. If you don't like it, sell at a small loss. Get the ultimate: 21 ASPH, 35 'lux ASPH and a 75 'lux. Then get a Canon D1X and a couple of IS tele's. Then get a Hassy 200 series (?) and a 30mm, 50mm, 80mm, 150mm, 250mm and the zoom (?) and you'll be set.

[el_fang]

Wow. An attitude already, and he doesn't even own a Leica yet. Amazing.

[jerry_olivetti1]

You need to budget for film and processing in addition to your equipment. Buy used.

[gerry_szarek]

Dave, you should really look at the Hexar RF used for ~$550, along with the TE. It has a built in winder, easier load, and built in meter. The other option is to get an M6 with 0.72 Mag. To start with lenses I would recommend the 35mm and 90mm, then you can add either heading for the wide end or the narrow direction.

 

Forgot the add in you could by the new Epson RD1 (Cosina M rangefinder in digital) instead of any of the film cameras.

 

Good luck and welcome aboard, hopefully I have confused you.

 

Gerry

[stuart_richardson]

Dave, the Black MP gets a bad rap for shedding paint at the slightest touch. This has not

been my experience. I have used it regularly for a year, in Luigi's half case for most of the

time, and the only noticeable wear is on the advance lever and the shutter speed dial. I

don't bang up my camera (I don't mistreat any camera, whether it costs 2000 or 200

dollars...what's the point? It is possible to use something fully without mimicing

"professional" callousness towards your tools.), but I don't baby it either.

<P> As for lenses, I find the 50mm most useful. I am fine with the 50 'cron. Add a 90

elmarit and a 35 M Hexanon or Voigtlander and you will be easily set for your range. These

are all fairly compact (though the m hexanon is much larger than its leica equivalent, it is

far cheaper and offers great performance). <P> Best of luck with your purchase.

[adnan]

<i>"I love the feel of the quality and precision of the body, and want to create beautiful images with the best equipment"</i>

<p>

Hi Dave,<p>

Its well made of course, but not, you know... overwhelming. I used to have an M4, with the pretty engraved top, real vulcanite, brass gears and everything but it never felt different in my hands than my current ugly-ass go anywhere combo pictured below (G2 + 21mm biogon):<p>

<center><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/carrerafan/contax2.jpg"></center><p>

 

Good luck with you purchase, and if you're a fan of the wide angle, I cannot recommend the CV 21mm f4 enough. I got mine for about $230 mint. The last version 35mm Summicron is ofcourse wonderful too. Went to Europe for two weeks with only that lens and never felt I needed anything else.

[laika]

If it's got to be the MP... Black MP + 35mm cron

 

If it was for me and I was going new today... Black M6TTL .58 (local store has in stock) + 35mm cron.

 

If I could buy used (and I would).. Used black M6TTL .58 or M6 Classic .72 + used 35mm cron + a couple CV lenses (wide & std focal lengths). I'd also be thinking of future upgrades that "John A" did to his M6 posted here last month ... MP winder arm, MP finder upgrade, Red dot changed to black ... That's a very nice M you have John.

[dave_chadderton]

Just to set the record straight, I take a variety of subjects when using my numerous cameras.

 

 

I already have a small collection comprising;

 

Minolta Dynax 5 SLR (with Sigma 20-40/2.8, Minolta 28-80 and 100-300 zooms - the Sigma is by far the best!)

 

Olympus OM-10 w50/1.8

 

MF TLR w 80/2.8

 

2 Pinhole cameras - 1 5x4 and a brilliant multi format 6x6/7/9

 

Fuji s5000 3mp digital and Sony DSC-T1 5mp digital

 

Leica Z2X Jaguar w/ 35-70 vario elmar

 

 

 

I use each one dependent on the circumstances and my mood. I don't carry them all but generally have the Z2X and one of the two digital cameras. My photography ranges from travel, to action/sport, to portrait and candid, to abstract and architecture. The two least ventured genres are closeup/macro and nature.

 

I don't want to buy into a DSLR systems just yet for 2 reasons; size and longevity. I considered a new Hasselblad 501CM but ruled it out for size. I also considered the X-Pan II but I want the lens range offered by a Leica. As I find myself with a small window of opportunity, where my cash availbilty is concurrent with my wife agreeing to spending 'so' much on a camera, I have decided to buy a dream Leica.

 

I hear so much about RF flare (and maybe it's not so much a problem) that I have decided to choose either the M7 or MP. If I'd been able to buy a Leica 3 yrs ago, I'd not have had AE available, so the M7 is not as much of a draw really. Having handled both I do prefer the feel of the MP. It's slightly smaller size is also a draw for me. The question now turns to lenses (See subject title !!)

 

I would primarily like a set of standard lenses (28/35 - 50 - 90) plus a 24 or wider. I'm prepared to wait for each lens as I want the best of each focal length. I have a suspicion that the 50/2.8 Elmar would be very convenient, but this is relatively low cost compared to some others and could easily be added later if I find the others too much to carry all the time. I do like the look of the new 50/1.4 Summilux. The Tri-Elmar tempts me for it's convenience and after buying a 90, I could look at a faster 35 or 50. I'm fairly sure I'll buy the CV 15mm/4.5 at some point (I do like very wide angles).

 

SO, WHICH FIRST LENS WOULD YOU CHOOSE? AND WHY?

 

So, there you have it. So far all I've really discovered is that most Leica users can't answer a question simply, with a straight answer !!

 

Just joking - I am appreciative of all (well, nearly) the comments here.