Mamiya 7 or Pentax 67

[casey_orr]

I am a Hasselblad using portrait photographer. I am looking for a

camera to use when I'm not orchestrating the scene, when I need to

lighten up with simple equiptment, not have a million things in my

pockets, and wait for things to happen. I want ttl metering. But

with medium format size quality. I like the change that 6x7 will give

me from my usual 6x6 format. I like the idea of the rangefinder, but

feel nervous about focusing the lenses. I believe the Mamiya 7 doesn't

have a hotshoe. Is this true? I use a metz and it's so heavy and

cumbersome I thought a small flash on the top of the camera would be a

nice change. I'm used to looking down into the camera with my view not

being obscured when I'm focusing and I like having eye contact without

the camera between my face and the subject. I was thinking a

rangefinder would be a good system for this. I was also thinking of

the Pentax 67 for the ttl metering and 35mm feel. I need to lighten up

with my equiptment but don't want to give up medium format. An

[eric friedemann]

1. If you want 6x7 and you want TTL flash metering, the Pentax 67II is your only choice. The other side of this coin, though, is that the Pentax only syncs down to 1/30th.

 

2. In 6x7, your standard portrait lens range is 150mm to 300mm (about 75-135mm in 35mm format). Obviously, lenses of this length are not forgiving from a standpoint of focusing.

 

3. The Mamiya 7II does have a hot shoe. The Mamiya 7II does not have TTL flash metering.

 

4. For a small, single column flash that won't overbalance a rangefinder camera or a camera without a motordrive battery under the lens, buy the Metz 34CS-2. It is the size of a pack of cigarettes, yet has a guide number of just over 100 at ISO 100/50mm.

The Metz only costs $120 at B&H. For $121, you can get the 34AF-3C that is TTL in a Pentax Mount.

 

5. A Pentax 67II with a prism will not be lighter than a Hasselblad, with or without a prism.

[kevin_lackey]

If you want it light, get the rangefinder. The Pentax, while a good and robust camera, can double as a boat anchor which would defeat the purpose. The Mamiya does have a hot shoe, although it is a single x-sync contact type, not a TTL multi-pin type.

[nhausfoto]

It sounds like a job for 645. Contax would be an excellent choice,

as would Pentax and Mamiya.

 

645's handle better than the 6x7's, they have many more

advanced features too. If you are looking for 35mm ease, with

medium format quality, I think 645 is the way to go. And the

format is proportionally similar to 6x7, (6x8 actually).

[eric friedemann]

Greg does have a point about the size of 6x4.5. You might also look at the Bronica RF (645 rangefinder). The orientation of the finder is vertical, which would be good for portraits. Also, the portrait lens for the camera is a 135mm, a bit easier to focus. No TTL, but the RF flash syncs down to 1/500th. Finally, the cost isn't outrageous- the 135mm is $600; $1,650 for the body with a 65mm.

[jackflesher]

>I was also thinking of the Pentax 67 for the ttl metering and 35mm feel.<

 

You obviously have not handled a P67 with a lens on it! It only LOOKS like a 35... Handles like a pig compared to the 35, and the mirror slap is teeth-jarring at anything below 1/60th. IMO, the Bronica 67 is actually more "portable".

 

>I want ttl metering. But with medium format size quality.<

 

The Mamiya 7 has no TTL metering or TTL flash metering. It does have a flash shoe. For 6x7 with TTL metering you will have to look to Bronica, Mamiya RZ or Pentax. All of which are significantly bigger than your Hassy.

 

So, I agree with the others: If you want TTL and a smaller, lighter package, I'd look to 645 -- Contax, Pentax or Mamiya. The new Bronica 645 is interesting, and I'm not sure but I don't think it is TTL except for flash.

 

:-),

[eric friedemann]

Regarding Jack's comments:

 

1. I have never shot a medium format camera with a meter (including Hasselblad), where I would rely on the in-camera meter for shooting slides.

 

2. The Pentax 67II is a huge-ass camera. With a lens, prism and batteries, you'd be pushing 6 lbs.

 

3. I wonder if teeth-jarring mirror slap of a 67II has actually cracked anyone's tooth. That would be a great story.

 

4. The Bronica RF is not blessed with TTL flash metering.

[kevin_lackey]

Lets clarify,

 

The only 67 that has TTL flash metering is the P67, which has already been established as a tank. The RB/RZ cameras, which are even bigger, only have a TTL meter for ambient light, and only with their AE prism. It has nothing to do with flash metering.

 

This means your choices for a rectangular MF camera with TTL flash metering are down to the non-AF Pentax 645, and the AF 645 SLRs. (Pentax 645N/N2, Mamiya and Contax 645AF.)

 

There are no Medium Format TTL flash rangefinders on the market that I know of with exception to the Bronica RF645, and it only does TTL flash control with their pea shooter flash, so you cant use the Metz you have with it. (in TTL)

[patrick_drennon]

I use P67's and a Fuji GX680III. I chose a Fuji GA645Zi for my

flexible, lightweight alternative. I've been immensely impressed

with the little camera. Some have claimed AF problems, I've had

none that weren't my fault. Others have had film winding issues,

again I've had none. It does NOT have TTL flash capabilties

though. Just a suggestion.

[brian walsh]

Michael Reichmann traded his Mamiya 7 for a Pentax; you can learn why in his reviews of the Pentax 67 and the Mamiya 7 at this site:

 

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/

 

(OK: He wanted longer lenses, and ease of use with ND grads for his landscape work. YMMV, but the two reviews offer an interesting comparison of two excellent but quite dissimilar 6x7 systems.)

 

The Mamiya 7 isn't ttl, but the meter is actually quite accurate if you take the time to learn how to use it. The Metz 32 or 40 series shoe-mount flashes (or their new replacements) work very well on the Mamiya, and the small Metz 34 series flash is quite light and seems a good bet, even if it's not as versatile as the larger units. Note that the Pentax, except when used with a (165mm?) leaf-shutter lens, is limited to a slow 1/30th second sync speed; the Mamiya (like the Bronica 645RF) will sync at up to 1/500th second, and is a bit easier to use when you're not orchestrating the light.

 

NB: The 135mm lens for the Bronica RF645, which Eric mentioned, was withdrawn; it will be replaced by a shorter (ca. 100mm) lens.

 

If you want to lighten up, and you want 6x7, you can't have ttl. Even so, the Mamiya 7 may be a close match for your wish list.

[steve_boothe]

I think the origonal post indicated he wanted to lighten up on the amount of stuff he used, not go to a lighter camera, i.e. a body, one or two lenses and a small flash. The P67 is perfect for this with its fast lenses and enough weight for very steady handholding. "Mirror slap" makes some noise but doesn't affect the image quality one iota, particularly if you use a high enough shutter speed to avoid user induced blur or if you use a flash. The 90 and 165 leaf shutter lenses do a great job and with the 2x they retain leaf shutter capability so you have a 180 f5.6 and a 330 f8 that close focus. You can even use the waist level finder if that suits your style better. If your arms get tired, use the neck strap... I've used older P67's for 9 years and have done what I've talked about so I know it works, at least for me.

 

Steve Boothe

[les_campbell]

No one's pointed out yet that the M7 isn't suited for portrait work. The 80mm and 150mm lenses focus to 1M and 1.8M respectively, which gives you a head-and-waist portrait at the closest. I love the Mamiya, but it's really best for landscape stuff.

[desmond_kidman]

I've owned the Bronica 645. I own Hass 503 & most lenses, and an RZ2 system. For my my money, for portrait work, you've got the system. M7 is lighter, yes, but not suitable for head and shoulders work. The Bronica 645 is not suitable either for head and shoulders, and doesn't even have a telephoto lens yet. And is a smaller format.

 

6 x 7 format is great, but the RZ is much more a pain to hold. I would use it this way, but you said you wanted lighter, and neither the RZ or the Bronica is lighter. The Pentax is not lighter either, and has limitations (flash sync speed, no film holder interchange). You said you wanted 6 x 7, so I'm ignoring the 645's, which are not that much smaller or lighter anyway.

[david_henderson]

If you want something for when photography is less of a formal experience than it is with a MF SLR, then the Mamiya 7 would be a good choice. I use one to complement my Bronica SQAi's and it goes places where I can't use the Bronica- for example when I can't use a tripod (you can hand-hold the M7 to 1/15). Sure there is a lack of flexibility with a rangefinder compared to a SLR, but if you've got the Hasselblad anyway you can work round that. Focusing isn't - to my mind anyway- as easy as with an SLR but it's a long way from being impossible and the rewards from getting it right are great because the lenses are extremely sharp. To me, bigger problems than focusing is the inability to see DOF and the lens barrel markings are grossly optimistic and the fact that accrate framing is very difficult.

 

Reality is that the only thing that a Pentax 67 will add to your photography is a slightly different shape of image. The Mamiya will get you taking shots you'll never get with an SLR and tripod.

 

I'd agree with a poster above that the metering system takes some getting used to. Personally I always use my spotmeter anyway rather than rely on the camera's meter. The thing you have to recognise about the M7 meter is that it isn't TTL and it essentially meters the same area irrespective of the lens you fit. So with a wide angle it is close to a spotmeter, but with the 150mm it takes readings from the whole area covered and then a little more. Rather than face the task of trying to understand how this works on a range of lenses, I use a handheld spotmeter in exactly the same way as I do with my Bronicas with good results.

 

I'd rarely reccommend a rangefinder as a first or only camera. As a complement to a good SLR i think the M7 has a great deal to offer.

[Spearhead]

<i>No one's pointed out yet that the M7 isn't suited for portrait work. </i><p>

 

This is only true if you make the mistake of confusing the word <i>portrait</i> with the word <i>headshot.</i> Great portrait artists like Arnold Newman and Richard Avedon did not make that mistake. Nor should anyone else.<p>

 

I do a lot of portrait work, primarily with the Mamiya 7. It's never been an obstacle, but I'm not doing actor's headshots.<p>

 

<center>

<img src="http://www.spirer.com/images/is3.jpg"><br>

<i>West Side Story, Mamiya 7 with 80mm lens, Copyright 2002 Jeff Spirer</i>

</center>

[paul_wilson2]

The Bronica GS1 does have TTL flash metering.

 

Just a thought, why not just take a Hasselblad and bring less stuff? It doesn't satisfy your wish for a change from 6x7 but it's a lot cheaper since you already have it.

 

Anyway, I use a Mamiya 7II and occasionally use a Nikon flash on top. It works reasonably well.

[kelvin_chao]

Mamiya 7? Pentax 67? 645?

 

How about none of the above. I'm going to go way out into left field and suggest a camera that is lighter than any of the above. Lighter than just the 80mm lens for my SQ-A as it weighs in at 590g. Is very compact measuring 5x3x1.5 inches ... it fits into my shirt or jacket pocket. Has a leaf shutter and therefore will flash sync to its max. shutter speed ... though no TTL ... I just have to rely on the auto sensor of my flash. Shoots 6x6 or could be found in a 6x9 format. Is not that useful for getting in close but if I read your post correctly you portrait work is done in studio with the Hassy. The secondary camera is for shooting something other than portraits.

 

I have a SQ-A kit and love it but found the need for something lighter and more compact. My secondary camera ... a MF folder from the 50's. There are many skeptics sure, but a classic folder is a viable option. They can be found with coated optics, 4 element lens, rangerfinders etc. They are relatively cheap - "disposable" even if the cost of a CLA is greater than the cost of the camera. Pick one up for $50 and try it ... if its not for you, sell it for the same.

 

Check-out www.cleanimages.com/dot/info/articles/mediumformatinyourpocket/folders.htm

[allen_friday]

Until 14 months ago, a Hassy 501cm was my "go to" camera. Nevertheless, like you, I wanted something lighter and easier to use for candid situations. I rented both the Mamiya 7 II and the Pentax 67 for a couple of week ends before buying. I decided on the M7 II and have been very happy with it. It is now my "go to" camera--I leave the Hassy in the studio.

 

My main reasons for going with the Mamiya over the Pentax were: 1. Size and convience in shooting. The Pentax looks like a 35, but it is bulky and a pain to carry about. My mamiya (with lens) weights about the same as my Nikon F-100. 2. The M7II has better lenses. The rangefinder lenses do not have to make compromises for a mirror. The quality really shows up on the wider angle lenses. 3. The Pentax shutter and mirror are noisy and shake the camera. With the Mamiya, I can use a slower film and hand hold at much slower speeds than with the Pentax. I can shoot the Mamiya in a theater and not have everyone turn and look at me. The Mamiya is not as quite as a Leica, but it is much quiter than the Hassy or Pentx.

 

There are draw backs to the Mamiya. 1. it has a limited number of lenses. I use the 65, 80 and 150. The 150 is a little bit hard to focus in low light. Focusing with the rangefinder is different from focusing with a SLR. Not better, not worse, just different. I have to think about focus when ever I switch back and forth between the M7 and my Hassy or F-100. Since you already use medium format, you should have a good idea whether the few number of lenses will greatly limit your photography. 2. The Mamiya does not have TTL mettering. Frankly, I have not found this to be a problem. You do have to think a bit more in setting up your flash unit, but once properly set, it is a breeze to use.

 

If you are looking for a lighter, easier to use camera, the Mamiya is probably the way to go. If you decide you need more lenses and have to have an SLR, perhaps you should consider a pentaprism for your Hassy and adding a TTL meter to it. This could save you a boat load of money. The Pentax is a great camera, but it is bulky. I didn't find much advantage to it over my Hassy.