Are you willing to shoot an event for free, for the experience only?

[shawn_rahman]

I shot an even for free - it was a retirement party for someone in my

office - after I convinced them to forego a paid photographer in favor

of me. The results were excellent, and everyone, including the person

retiring, loved the pictures. Yes. I think they took a HUGE risk on

me, but it paid off in the end. I was reimbursed only for cost of

batteries, film, and developing.

 

This directly led to two PAID events, the second of which is upcoming

in three weeks (a baptism with reception). So I think there is much

to go gain in shooting events low-cost or free for those just starting

out. I've seen this advice numerous times here on photo.net, and can

tell you first hand that it is worthwhile.

 

Are there any similar experiences out there?

 

Also, for this upcoming baptism in November, I am being paid only $350

above cost (it is a close friend at work) for 8-9 hours, and would

like to know the best way to find an assistant who knows a little

about handling equipment who will be willing to go eight hours or so

for about $10-$12 hour. Is this a reasonable rate, considering I am

hardly a "pro"?

 

Thanks again!

[Jerry_]

'tis a shame you haven't become a dentist. I've yet to meet one that is only "semi-educated" and willing to give a large discount on needed dental work.

 

 

 

Hardly a "pro," means you are willing to forego your camera if a accident drops your camera body or a lens to the floor, right? The 'experience' will do you good, but if you do not factor in the inital cost of your equipment, you are giving up income. And if you become 'better,' you -- as a honest person -- should begin record keeping for the tax season, collecting all the 'almost-pro' goodies like social security tax, self-employment tax, and sales tax for your state.

 

 

 

It, darn it, is not just shooting the pictures.

[picturesque]

It isn't a reasonable rate for an assistant who knows how to handle equipment. Might be a reasonable rate for a photo student. Also, rates vary from location to location across the country, with the highest rates in the most urban areas.

[shawn_rahman]

Gerald - your points are very well taken. I do recognize that this is a very discounted rate, but I figure I still am trying to gain experience and a portfolio. Also, it is a friend who cannot afford the going rate for an established photographer.

 

Nadine - thanks for the very valued information. I had no idea how much assistants make, and now I have a better idea. Do you think it is worthwhile trying to find photography students who might be willing to do this? Or am I better off going it alone, which I am prepared to do.

[picturesque]

Depends what you need an assistance for. If just to carry stuff and similar duties without much technical know how, a photo student would do OK. If you expect the assistant to give you meter readings, hold an off-camera flash, etc., you don't have time to train them to do these things your way.

[anner]

A similar thing happened to me Shawn. I was just taking engagement pictures of friends

for experience, no pay, only recouping costs, and they loved their pictures so much that

now they want to pay me to shoot their entire wedding. They had also glanced at some

pictures I had taken as a guest of friend's weddings and the couple loved everything they

saw. I was very flattered of course, and I can't wait for the opportunity. Of course- I'm

still creating a contract for them that states I am not guaranteeing results because I do not

claim to be a professional, but provided that doesn't bother them- it will be my first paid

wedding! :-) I'm sure you'll be able to find someone to help you out for the pay you're

offering- heck, I'd do it if I lived near you. Good luck on all of your endeavors!

[derek_c.]

NO, dude, no...<br>

Don't use an assistant, keep all your money man...<br>

Please consider that, it's totally possible.<br>

[derek_c.]

PS. I would love to take pictures for free.<br>

Why not? it's fun, and they will spread your name for you.<br>

I give them free reprints with my web site address written in front. So they can pass out my "business cards" to their friends and family.<br>

If they run out of them? I will give them more.<br>

Have fun, I'm loving this.<br>

[blakley]

Is there a rule that says it's not OK to photograph an event for free? If so, who

promulgated the rule? The photographers' union?

 

Bootstrapping a business is tough. In photography, you need to have samples to fill a

portfolio so that you can show potential clients what your work looks like.

 

It's a free country, so you can develop the portfolio any way you like - by assisting for pay;

by doing assignments for free; or by shooting personal work which you don't give to

"clients".

 

I have shot events for free. Most recently I shot stills for an independent film. They

couldn't afford to pay a photographer - so friends of the cast (me included) contributed

their efforts. It was a great experience. I got more out of it than I put in. I would do it

again on the same terms.

 

After your portfolio is ready, a reasonable rate is the amount people are willing to pay.

After you accept the reasonable rate, you have the obligation to deliver the best quality

you can possibly produce. "Hardly a pro" is a stage everyone goes through. Charge a rate

you think is fair - but make sure that whatever the rate is, it covers your cost and gives

you enough profit so you can afford to do the next job - anything less isn't practical if you

want to become an established pro.

[john_h.1]

"I think they took a HUGE risk on me"

 

High rollers these retirement party folk are.

[scott_milso]

I'd do it and have done it. Some pros get pissed, but you need to build a portfolio and a reputation to get paid work (as you found out)

[john_h.1]

"Is there a rule that says it's not OK to photograph an event for free?"

 

There's no rule forbidding such things to be discouraged. If someone want's to do something nice or provide a gift, then great.

 

There a many, however, performing work for free or at a loss for the sake of 'getting in the door'. It collectively drives down the value of photographic work. Don't expect a website full of photographers to rally around someone who posts messages here claiming to be someone who is a drain on their earning capacity.

[peter_cofran]

Shawn, If you live in CT i wouldnt mind assisting you. I'm in the same boat you're in looking to gain experience.

[Spearhead]

<i>There a many, however, performing work for free or at a loss for the sake of 'getting in the door'. It collectively drives down the value of photographic work.</i><p>

 

I've never seen any evidence to suggest that this is true. Except in credentialed fields, the evidence suggests that many successful and talented people get started by free <i>exposure.</i><p>

 

I'll never forget going to a free concert at college by The Cars, who at the time had only a demo single. At the end of the concert, they told everyone to call the local radio stations to play the demo, and the demo became a local radio hit. Six months later, they were recording with a name producer and a major label, and a year label, they were on top of the charts and playing arenas. The lesson - some free exposure can take you a long way.

[manolis1]

My answer is YES. I have done it many times and I really have enjoyed it.

I have shot Christenings (of my friends' kids) and school events (of my kids' schools).

I considered it as a VALUABLE GIFT, which's going to last forever.

[Jerry_]

"It's a free country, so you can develop the portfolio any way you like - by assisting for pay; by doing assignments for free; or by shooting personal work which you don't give to "clients"."

 

 

 

 

Strange but back a number of years ago, I had the 'luck' of shooting for a junior college newspaper and yearbook. A pair of low $$$$ scholarships via working, but the school provided a camera, flash, and all the film/processing I could muster. 'Free' as in learning, but to give away your work....? Once you establish the fact you are low-cost or without a charge, it is somewhat 'fun' to become like scrooge and actually expect folks to pay the going rate.

[Spearhead]

<i>Once you establish the fact you are low-cost or without a charge, it is somewhat 'fun' to become like scrooge and actually expect folks to pay the going rate.</i><p>

 

Once again, nice platitude, but hardly born out. See the example I gave above.

[fotografz]

This is a somewhat interesting discussion point.

 

I'm not sure I see the parallel in Jeff's example. A retirement party is hardly a rock concert.

I can see it now, Shawn at the mike with adoring octogenarians lighting their bics and

Shawn kissing all the walker babes while screaming for the oldsters to call their friends

and families for a celebrity photo session ; -)

 

But, hey, it seemed to work. He got some more "almost free" gigs.

 

Actually, contrary to Jeff's assurances, I have seen the proof that cheap can be a trap. A PJ

pal of mine decided to go cheap to get in the door. "Cheap" spread like wild fire through

the knot web site and he was tagged as the el-cheap-o shooter, which 2 years later

persists to dog him. Amazing how many referrals he got as the value shooter. People love

to tell other people how cheaply they got their wedding photography. The guy is a pretty

good photographer BTW.

 

That all said, ya gotta start somewhere. Just cut it short ASAP.

[william_au]

Shooting free to get started is one thing. It's all about risk and reward, and if someone wants to take a risk on a free photographer, that's their prerogative. Aspiring shooters have to start somewhere, and not everyone is blessed with getting "in" to school or assistant jobs etc. Agreed, they won't get a lot of sympathy from a forum of "competitors", but at the same time, until photography is unionized (God forbid), there shouldn't be any grounds to complain - it's a free country and it's not our call. Plus, unless you've already gotten a zillion $ and are trying to force other people out of the industry, I hardly think newbies are WANTING to do free jobs to sink the market :P

 

I agree with Marc on the risk of staying low priced though. The danger isn't so much about undervaluing the market - I wonder if well-established photographers even notice cheap new entrants to the market, as their name & quality should carry a lot more weight... it's likely the fringe performers that would lose business. Rather, the danger is being labelled forever a "cheap" shooter. That would limit potential.

 

As to what to charge, it's always that good ol' balance between what you think you're worth and what the market thinks you're worth (unless of course you're in China and "everybody's" pair of shoes costs $39.95). The rate may be reasonable for your market...? Finding a qualified assistant at that rate would be a difficult (though not impossible) task around here.

[patrick_lockwood]

I never had done a wedding for free, but on the first several, I charged only a token about, about $300. I gradually increased the price and I'm at $1100 for most of my weddings now, and the Bs & Gs are elated that I'm so affordable. Once you have done about a dozen of these, and have a nice portfolio, you can go much higher and still get a lot of business. I don't advertise, and I do about one wedding per week. I quit my day job after about 6 months into it. For me, it was an easy decision in that I had a menial job, and no family to support. Others, it may be more difficult, or impossible to do, since there are other issues if families are involved.

 

 

Patrick

[derek_c.]

I believe beginning photographers should start low and rais price as they get more clients.<br>

It's called supply and demend.<br>

People who cannot raise their price, while they have high demend, should take some business courses.<br>

[john_h.1]

Photographers, like other service provider entrepruners, often charge less at the beggining of their professional life. You don't find many other professionals, however, who will perform services for free or at a loss though. Perhaps I am mistaken that photogaphers would prefer not to have this phenomenon occur given the sympathy here.

Just because you don't see a net loss, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The more people that perform a task for cheap, the more customers expect that to be the norm. The aggregate effect certainly cannot help. The dynamics of wedding photography may be different, but try telling the pros at PDN that undercutting in stock photography has had no effect on business.

 

Good luck to you guys.

[steve_muntz]

Seems like people value your work based on what they paid for it. I've done some free work that I was very proud of but nobody cared - not so much as a "thank you". I've also been paid pretty well (I'd consider myself a beginning pro) for work that was good but not particularly exciting, and the client loved it.

 

I have done a few weddings and hope to do more. I don't see how I can charge as much as a full time pro with years of experience and award winning portfolios, my work just isn't that caliber - yet! :) I'm curious how everyone saying not to do free/cheap work got their start...

[john_h.1]

"I'm curious how everyone saying not to do free/cheap work got their start..."

 

The same way as everyone else in the world who starts a service business does. Hanging out a shingle and drumming up business. The caterer doesn't give free buffets, the dentist doesn't provide free fillings, The therapist doesn't give free counsel, the funeral home doesn't arrange free burials, ect. ect.

[aquilanebula]

Speaking as someone whose profession is outside the area of photography, I sense a lot of misplaced jealousy in this thread (and similar threads on this subject).

 

Some people learn their trade as part of a team, some learn by shadowing someone, some learn at university, and some learn by branching out on their own. Whatever the method, there comes a time when someone new starts to do the same work as an experienced person. Clearly it makes sense for the experienced person to earn or charge more.

 

As for the business model of free or reduced prices, have you never heard of a company giving "an introductory offer"? What about hairdressing salons that offer free haircuts for those willing to try out a trainee hairdresser?

 

We live in a market economy where quality differentiates price. People pay according to what they want and what they can afford. That's why camera manufacturers offer cheap point and shoot models without worrying that it undermines sales of their SLRs.

 

Ultimately, the earnings potential of an quality wedding photographer is determined by supply and demand. The competition is from other quality photographers. The regular sniping at budding wedding photographers seems to this observer misplaced and unnecessary.