Mamiya RZ Pricing in Japan

[damon_harrell]

I just returned from a business trip to Japan, and fortunately for

me, I read some of the treads on this site regarding overseas

pricing on Mamiyas. I wanted to share my experience with you.

 

I went to Yodobashi Camera in Shinjuku (Tokyo) and purchased a

complete RZ67 setup. This included: RZ67 Pro II body with waist

level viewfinder, AE Prism, 220 back, 50mm ULD lens, 110mm lens,

180mm lens, mirror up cable, and 3 rolls of film. All of this cost

$4249.00 in US dollars. B&H would have come in somewhere around

$8000.00. Mamiya is definitely cheaper in Japan!

 

Thanks, Damon.

[eric friedemann]

Congratulations; I just bought some Mamiya 7 equipment from B&H at prices that would violate the sodomy laws of most American states.

[lawrence_title]

Three questions:

 

1) What are the implications of buying in Japan in terms of

warranty service. Will US or Canada honor your warranty card (if

you received one)?

 

2) How does Bronica pricing compare in Japan vs. North

America ?

 

3) How much research or comparative shopping did you do,

before choosing Yodobashi Camera ?

[eric friedemann]

"1) What are the implications of buying in Japan in terms of warranty service."

 

I'll answer 1. with respect to Mamiya America Corporation:

 

"Mamiya America Corporation has registered the MAMIYA Trademark with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (PTO), and has recorded this mark with the United States Customs Service for import protection in accordance with 19 C.F.R. Part 133.

 

Under Section 526 (a) of the Tariff Act of 1930, the importation of any foreign-origin merchandise bearing the MAMIYA trademark, without the written consent of Mamiya America Corporation, is unlawful and prohibited. Unauthorized importations are subject to seizure and forfeiture by the United States Customs Service.

 

Mamiya America Corporation has directed Customs to enforce this trademark aggressively, and to prohibit the importations of 'gray-market' merchandise. Mamiya America Corporation will also pursue all of its available remedies for injunctive relief and damages against any persons who import, distribute, sell or otherwise deal in gray market merchandise bearing the Mamiya trademark."

 

SOURCE: MAC website- http://www.mamiya.com/about.asp?id=6&id2=142

[fredlee70x7]

I guess bringing Mamiya products in person to US not for resell does not violate the US custom or Mamiya USA's trademark rights. At least I had purchased Mamiya gear and both brought them in person and by mail order to Canada and didn't have any problems. Maybe we don't have that laws here.

[damon_harrell]

1) All the items purchased are warranted by Mamiya Japan for one year. I assume that I would need to return the equipment to Japan for service. Considering the amount I saved though, I would probably just pay for service if it is needed. There are extended warranties through companies like GE that can be purchased as well, although some of them require you to buy the warranty at the time of purchase. Not all of them though.

 

The blurb posted above from the Mamiya US website doesn't really apply, because you are allowed to bring back "gray market" merchandise for personal use. The US customs website states: "... passengers arriving into the United States are permitted to import one article, which must accompany the person, bearing a counterfeit, confusingly similar or restricted gray market trademark, provided that the article is for personal use and is not for sale." This can be found at: http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/travel/travel.htm . Of course, Mamiya USA still will not honor the Japan warranty.

 

2) I did not notice the pricing on Broncia specifically. I did notice that only the cameras that were made in Japan were cheaper. Hassleblad, for instance, was just as expensive as the US. The other thing I noticed was that film cameras were cheaper than the US; digital cameras equal.

 

3) I did do some comparative shopping in Akihabara. I found Yodobashi to have everything in stock, and have the best prices. They have a web site: www.yodobashi.com , but it is in Japanese. If you buy from Yodobashi, don't buy everything at once. They have point cards which give you 10% back on all purchases. It takes one day for your point card to be activated, so you need to come back later to get the full savings. I bought the 180mm lens the following day for approximately $450.00 because of the point card.

[mike_rosenlof2]

This is definitely in the category of heresay, non-expert testimony, rumor and possible nonsense, but...

 

Up to the 60s, and at least into the early 70s, US distributers of foreign made goods could have a monopoly on the import of trademarked goods. The story I hear from that time was that customs would routinely obliterate trademarked names from items bought overseas. You could buy a Nikon in Japan, but the name would be scratched off your new camera when you brought it into the US.

 

As was just mentioned in this thread, that is no longer the case. You can bring in genuine Nikon or Mamiya cameras purchased in Japan and US customs will not do anything but assess duty charges. Customs does confiscate and destroy counterfit goods, fake Rolex watches are a popular example.

 

Again, this is the story I've heard. I can't guarantee it's accurate.

 

You can bet that Mamiya USA will not touch your bought in Japan camera, they won't perform warranty work, and probably wouldn't even perform out-of-warranty work.

Mamiya USA can cite 1930's legislation all they want. That doesn't mean that it's still in force. They can also send all sorts of directives to the Customs service, but the Customs service doesn't necessarily listen.

 

The US customs service web page says, among other things, "You may bring back genuine trademarked and copyrighted articles (subject to duties). The copyrighted products most commonly imported include CD-ROMs, tape cassettes, toys, stuffed animals, clothing with cartoon characters, videotapes, videocassettes, music CDs, and books."

 

http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/travel/travel.htm

[david_littleboy__tokyo__ja]

"2) How does Bronica pricing compare in Japan vs. North America ?"

 

Bronica seems quite a bit cheaper here. A Bronica SQ-Ai outfit with prism is under US$2,000. (FWIW, the SQ-B isn't sold in Japan.)

 

Used non-AI SQ systems are cheap and used PS lenses aren't that bad. I saw a used SQ with prism for about US$500, and two PS 40mm lenses also for US$500 each. Used SQ-Ai systems start at US$1000, with the 1998 limited edition commanding a $300 or so premium.

 

The reason for this is exchange rate fluctuations. The Yen sat in the 100 to 110 Yen to the dollar range for quite a while and prices for cameras and guitars stabilized. Recently, the Yen has gotten weaker (120 to 130 range), meaning that prices look more reasonable to folks who get paid in US$.

[jared_purdy]

That might actually make flying to Japan and purchasing said equipment cheaper than buying at www.harrysproshop.com, which comes as about the cheapest in NA. Good score Damon!

 

Though I have to say, there is a certain amount of comfort one attains by purchasing equipment relatively close to home, even if it does come at a higher price - but at what price?

 

Jared Purdy

[duncan_ross1]

Last year I flew to the UK (from the USA) and picked up my RZ at Robert White. I wanted to look at the RZ and the Rollei and was able to do a side by side comparison of both systems. I also saw the Fuji 680, but just a glance told me that the Fuji was not for me (it's comically huge).

 

The $300 airfare and 2 nights in a hotel were more than made up for with the savings - and I had a great short holiday! With the price difference, I don't know why anyone purchases Mamiya in the USA. The used prices in the USA reflect the "real world" price, so anyone buying in the USA takes a 50% hit right away in the depreciation of their equipment.

[mark_thomas2]

I was in Tokyo last week and stopped by Yodobashi to see what I could add to my RZ. I went there primarily based on recommendations found in various threads. In the past I've done my purchases in Japan from Kitamura camera in both Osaka and Fukuoka. I have the best relationship with the store in Fukuoka. I found the price of the 65 lens to be about 10,000 Yen higher at Yodobashi. Not a significant difference and I imagine buying a whole kit you can swing a little deal. For reference, Kitamura in Fukuoka sells the equipment at 70% of (Japanese) list price. I've found similar savings on Contax equipment as well.

 

MF purchasers should note the Kitamura shops I've been to offer quite a bit more elbow room than the closet where they sell MF gear at Yodobashi. Not to say I would mind a closet or even a van parked at a different corner everyday if the price it right (and it's legit of course) but it is nice be able to move a little if more than a few people are in the area.

[mark_hubbard]

The trademark law still applies and is enforced by Mamiya America Corporation (MAC). One highly reputable used camera dealer (an individual) was making regular trips to Japan and then offering "like-new" Mamiya equipment for sale in the US. It was very, very small-time, yet MAC's lawyers went after him, and he got out of the "used" Mamiya business in a hurry. This is not a joke, folks. To clarify, however, NO SUCH LIMITATION EXISTS for Fuji, Canon or Nikon products.

 

As stated, however, there is nothing to stop you from flying to Japan to purchase Mamiya camera equipment for your own use. Although I have purchased at least one Mamiya lens that did, in fact, have the trademark removed with a grinder, I have no reason to believe that US Customs is going to bother a traveler returning with a declared camera purchased for personal use. However, if you're tempted to buy a "new" Mamiya camera over the Internet from Asia or Madagascar, be aware that US Customs can seize and destroy your illegal import, leaving you on the hook for the cost of your "bargain."

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark Hubbard

[randall_shafer]

I've followed this issue for several years now and agree with Mark Hubbard's response- You may certainly bring a Mamiya product back with you from overseas but may not import a system for resale.

 

There seems to be some confusion about buying one from overseas by mail order-- I haven't heard of anything being seized by U.S. Customs officials and quite a few people have posted about satisfactory buying experiences with Robert White in the U.K. and new Mamiya.

 

I believe the response from Mamiya America (M.A.C) has been that they will agressively pursue anyone known to them importing for resale, but will service (non-warranty) imported product with no penalty.

 

This is in contrast to an organization like Nikon USA, which will not service imported Nikon product if they can identify it as such. (Although they will sell repair parts and you can service it through an independent.)

 

My personal take on all this is that importers like Nikon USA and M.A.C. are dinosaurs that serve no real purpose other than to act as a middleman and inflate costs to the consumer. Most of my contact with M.A.C. employees is at the frequent dealer shows/sales where they seem to spend most of their time, offering special discounts and come-ons to get people to buy their product because they are unable to move it otherwise. My local camera dealer tells me that 90% of their Mamiya sales are at these special events, and I concur- I've never bought new Mamiya gear at retail prices--- I've always bought at special events or used.