2 Toyo 100mm extensions for 45AII

[marc_croteau]

Has anyone had experience coupling 2 Toyo 100mm extensions on the 45AII or AX?

I'm considering the purchase of a Nikkor M 450mm f/9 lens and I believe I would need

that much more bellows draw to focus that lens. My primary subject is the coast and

mountains of Maine and NH.

 

Thanks in advance for any tips.

 

Marc Croteau

[tedharris]

Hello Marc,

 

I do most of my work in Maine and New Hampshire as well. I live in New Hampshire. Two

comments, one technical and the other aesthetic. First on the technical side I would be

concerned that the rigidity of the Toyo would be seriously comprimised. It's a substantial

lens. I own one, use it a lot with my 8x10 and in the studio but don't think it would fare

very well with 450mm ofm bellows extension on most 4x5 field cameras (or some combo

of extension and bellows).

 

Also to the point, and this I agree is personal taste as much as anything else. I have been

photographing up and down the coast of Manie and New Hampshire for years and seldom

feel the need for a lens that long. I frequently carry lenses ranging from 75 to 300 and

very very seldom reach for the 240 or 300, not even the 180 that often. In descending

order my most used lenses on the sea coast are 110, 75, 180, 135.

 

What subjects and locations are you thinking of capturing with the 450?

 

OTOH if you want to give it a try drop me an email offlist and we will see if we can get

together. I need to do some work in the Camden and Rockland area sometime in the next

few weeks.

 

Ted

[User_503771]

I'm afraid I can't shed any light regarding the camera.

 

But about the aesthetics -- I have to differ respectfully with the above post -- if that focal length is important to you, then it's important.

 

I remember reading about a Sierra Club trip that Ansel Adams was on. He took one of his most famous photos of some ice on rocks and water. Right next to him Cedric Wright was photographing the same scene. When they looked at the prints later on, the compositions were so different that it looked almost like they'd been at entirely different locations.

 

Camera not quite up to it? You can work it out, and probably with that camera.

 

Good luck!

[brian_ellis3]

You're talking about adding eight inches of extension to a big, heavy 18 inch lens and then mounting it all on a camera designed for normal lenses no longer than about 10 inches. I don't mean to be snide or critical, I've made more than my share of mistakes when buying equipment, but it seems to me that you are trying to use the wrong camera for the job. If you want to use an 18 inch lens my suggestion would be to forget trying to force it on a camera with a 12 inch bellows and instead sell the camera (or refrain from buying it if you got lucky and haven't yet bought it) and get a camea with a bellows extension better suited for your needs.

[michael_briggs2]

Some other ideas: instead of the 450 mm Nikkor-M, you might want to consider the lighter 450 Fuji-C. It would probably be better to use a telephoto lens so that you don't have to use extensions, or at least only one extension. The 360 mm Nikkor-T needs only 261 mm of extension to focus on infinity, and the 500 mm Nikkor-T needs only 350 mm. Both of these Nikkor-T's use a Copal #1 shutter, and they share the same front cell so that they can be made into the other lens by using a different rear cell.

[gone nomad]

I really like the 450mm focal length. I have a fuji 450 C lens that I love. I was in a similar boat as you were when I started wanting a longer lens. I first tried the Fuji 400T lens which worked well on the Wista 45DX that I had at that time. It worked well but the lens was heavy. Furthermore, movements with the 400T were tricky as the nodal point is out infront of the lens. I finally resorted to selling the Wista and getting a Wisner 4x5. Now I have no problem using the 450C lens.

 

Using the back extensions with the Toyo 45 will be a PITA. The Fuji 400T will be a better choice. Indeed, the weight increase would be less with the 400T than the 450 Nikkor with both extensions. Furthermore, rigidity would also likely be better.

 

If you need a longer lens, you could also use a Nikon 500mm T at infinity with a reversed recessed lensboard. This is a really cool lens arrangement that uses 3 different rear elements to give you 360mm, 500mm, and 720mm focal lengths. You would be able to use the 360 and 500 on your current camera. The 720 requires 480 or so mm of bellows.

 

Finally, you might be able to get away with one back extension and still use the 450mm lens. Your toyo has 329mm of bellows extension. The fuji 450 requires 425mm of bellows, the Nikon M requires 428mm of bellows. One rear extension might get you to infinity focus; however, the bellows would be stretched to their maximum. Using the reversed recessed lens board trick on the front might also help; however, this will likely only work with the copal 1 shutter.

 

In conclusion, you are really trying to stretch your toyo to its limits. I would suggest that if you want to use long focal length lenses that you search for a new camera. Canham, Wisner, Gandolfi, Lotus, and Ebony are just a few that spring to mind for long lenses.

[jim_mcbride]

Marc: I use a Toyo AX which is similar in weight and balance characteristics to a 45AII. The

longest lens I've been able to use comfortably without extension is a 300mm f9 Schneider

G-Claron. I've borrowed other (longer) lenses and tried to use them with extension but it

makes the camera awkward to handle and balance on the very heavy and stable tripod

which I use. Although I live in southeastern New England, I do a lot of landscape

photography in VT, NH and ME. When I am in northern NE, I typically use a 90, 120. 150,

210 and 300. Very seldom do I encounter a situation which cannot be handled by one of

the foregoing lenses.

[emil_ems1]

Marc,

 

I own a Toyo 45 AII and had ambitions similar to yours some years ago. I live in a high rise building on the 11th floor in Brussesl and wanted to take some interesting pictures on the horizon. For this, a 600 mm lens was needed.

 

I bought the Fuji 600 mm tele lens and the extension for the Toyo. The end result was not quite as good as I had expected, only so so. The most worrisome aspect was that the heavy lens led to a slight misalignment of the front standard. Since using this combination, i always have to correct the alignment when using wide angle lenses with the Toyo (there is now a slight forward inclination in the front standard, the heavy lens having forced it down).

 

My solution was to buy a used Toyo 8x10 field and redo the pictures. With that outfit, there is no problem with getting the front standard misaligned. And, not to forget, I may have to buy another used Toyo 4x5 field eventually.

[jim_kirk1]

I asked this same question on the Mamiya forum. They suggested that two extensions would be impractical. As I thought about carrying two extensions, I decided to opt for something else. Others have suggested the many Tele optics. I chose the Schnieder 400 APO-Tele-Xenar Compact. It's "only" two pounds but better, its flange focal distance is 285mm. Well within the range of the 320mm or so of the Toyo A cameras. I wanted to go longer though, so... I didn't get the Toyo A. I opted for the 45C. Only three pounds more.... OK, I'm nuts but I still think it was worth it.

[marc_croteau]

Thanks, all, for the timely answers and tips. Maybe I'm confused about the weight and

size of this lens. At 1.4 lbs and about 2 inches in width, (specs from B&H) it seems to be

fairly compact. Certainly comparable to my 90 mm Rodenstock, albeit a tad heavier. I

guess the problem would be at the other end of the camera with those extensions hanging

out. The weight would certainly be a concern but on the positive side, I'd have no bellows

sag with 524mm of extension on a 4x5. OTOH, maybe that concern is unfounded on

modern 4x5s.

 

Ted, as to subjects and locations, my recent test piece has been Katahdin from the top of

Baxter Peak. Looking across to Pamola Peak or down to Chimney Pond made me realize

that extending my view with a longer lens was important enough to me to explore the

possibility of a lens that's longer than my 300mm.

 

As regards the camera, I like it. It's been reliable, rugged and I've had no problems

bending the front standard with the 90mm. Maybe the few ounces more would be the

stick that breaks the camel's front standard as Emil Ems suggests.

 

Thanks again for the info...great help in my continuing education. I'll be exploring other

possibilities.

 

Marc