henricus Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Ikon, nIKON. Surely Cosina is not the first to use the stratagem ofraising the dead to market their product.<p>Caeser, Kaiser. Standardsare set by greatness and the name is only a reference that attachesitself to the glory.<p>I am not saying that these recent entries intothe RF fray will be great. I am only proposing that they will live ordie on their merits and I am not concerned with the name. Don't mostfolks feel this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_amiet2 Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 The sun rises, the sun sets, .... everyday, so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_unsworth1 Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 No man is an island - except Fred Madagascar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_kim2 Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I think Ikon and Nikon are a coincidence. Isnt Nikon short for Japanese? Something like Nippon Kogaku.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carey_russ Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Zeiss had ``Ikon'' first. The first few years that Nikon cameras were sold in Europe, the bodies were badged ``Nikkor'' to prevent any legal challenges by Zeiss. I think I saw this on Camera Quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_kieltyka Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Yep, the "Ikon" in Zeiss Ikon and "Nikon" have absolutely nothing to do with each other. -Dave- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 what does ikon translate into english as? Icon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_lieberman1 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 No, Eric. You're thinking of "IMACON," the must-have scanner for posting photos of your kids on the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_matherson Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 "Cosina is not the first to use the stratagem of raising the dead to market their product." Where do you get this idea from? This is a Zeiss brand name that Zeiss own with a camera they designed and get Cosina to build. True its shares components with the Bessa like the shutter but it certainly not Cosina thats using this brand name this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct__ Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 <br>Nik... what? <br>Zeiss Ikon cameras: <br><br><center> <img border=0 src="http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/Contarex_bullseye.JPG"> </center> <br><br><center> <img border=0 src="http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/Contax1.JPG"> </center> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzdavid Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I read Nikon was originally going to call itself Pentax. BTW, do you say Ny-kon or Nikkon? The Japanese, I gather, say Neekon. As for Voigtlaender/Cosina, I have always wondered why a copany can't make good stuff and establish its reputation in its own right, rather than depending on the past glories of great names by purchasing the label. Eg, Ford/Jaguar. Is the same happening now with Zeiss? I'm sure it's still a damn good product, but the point remains.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzdavid Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Contarex and Contax -- now there's some true classics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_reidelbach Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 what?the problem with brand-names? Nikon or Canon were in the 50's was is Cosina now... ""Son of Tydeus, great-hearted Diomedes, - why ask me about my ancestry - Ancestry of men are like the leaves. - In winter, winds blow them down to earth, - but then, when spring season comes again, the budding wood grows other. And so with men? one name grows, another dies away." (true for 2750 years now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl_keung Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Yes, NIkkor was originally used for fear of patent reason, and those Nikkor branded Nikon now sells for a above-market price. First it was Rollei and then Zeiss, deep down it is Cosina. It is just an OEM thing. Film camera is dying, no one will roll out a complete new production line for it. I think most likely it is a vapour ware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul t Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 "First it was Rollei and then Zeiss, deep down it is Cosina. It is just an OEM thing.."<p> Says who? You seem to be confusing the Zeiss with the Rollei. The Zeiss camera is a fundamentally different design from the Bessa, with a different rewind, baselength, viewfinder etc. The lenses, according to those who've handled them, don't compare to the VC ones. It would be interesting if some people judged this camera & lenses by how they perform, not via their preconceptions. But at least Lutz K has done this on another thread.<p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henricus Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 <i>Where do you get this idea from? This is a Zeiss brand name that Zeiss own with a camera they designed and get Cosina to build. True its shares components with the Bessa like the shutter but it certainly not Cosina thats using this brand name this time.</i><p>Joel,<p> From the fact that Cosina rasied the dead Voigtlander name to market their RF lenses. Granted the Voigtlander situation is a little different than their Zeiss venture, but the point is still just as strong when you consider that they (both Zeiss and Cosina) are going after this market share by using this once strong RF name. Which was my point to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan c. Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 shouldn't we be happy that there is so much choice, by whatever name? i started serious photography in the late 1980s -- at that time, the ONLY new rangefinder equipment was the Leica M6 -- far too expensive for me. I ended up with used M3 and then M2 and a crazy bag of old lenses, a 50mm DR summicron, a nikkor 28mm f/3.5, a nikkor 85mm f/2.0, 35mm f/3.5 summaron... all were great in their way and i loved their "look" but none were ideal for when i had to do a commercial job, and none were that fast. i even went and got a Canon VIT with a 50mm f/1.2, but that big fast lens was too soft wide open. also had a VT and a russian LTM for a bit.... later i graduated to a M4-2 with the Abrahmsson Rapidwinder, a late 35mm summicron, a minolta 28mm f/2.8, a Canon 50mm f/1.4 (much better than the f/1.2, IMHO!) and the 90mm f/2.8 tele-elmarit. As for Cosina, i was one of the early users of the 35mm f/1.7 which i hated, too short of a focus throw from infinity to three feet, also a bit soft i thought, so i sold it. but then i did get a Bessa R2 body which is great for what it is. Toyed back and forth on getting the Konica Hexar RF and finally got the new motor M instead. With the R2a, R3a, and Zeiss entry, there are now going to be three M bodies available new on the market along with the M6 and M7. Not to mention plenty of Bessa T, R2, Hexar RF, all recently discontinued...this is a luxury of choice not seen since the '60s! who cares what the names on the cameras and lenses is? practical concerns like how they perform, how they feel ergonomically, how big and heavy, these are all the issues to think about... plus, sooner or later it will all be available on the used market, and the greater number and choice would bring prices down, which is all to the benefit of the user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_matherson Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Henry, your implying that somehow this is another badge buy like Voigtlander, my point that this cannot be the case. Zeiss created the Zeiss Ikon name, Zeiss still own this name, Zeiss approached Cosina to do some work for them just like they did Kyocera. The lens designs are their own, the body style is there own. This is not a case of an unassociated party using a name in purely name only. This is a Zeiss project and they have the right to use their own brand names surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsbc Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 A name is important because Zeiss has a record of producing great lenses. This is the difference between Zeiss and say, Canon or Nikon which have their range of consumer zooms. You would not think Zeiss would jeopardize their reputation and tradition by producing a 2nd rate lens, would you? Similarly, as Cosina mgt knows, the company has produced its share of cheap consumer products. It needs to differentiate its line of quality RF lenses from the cheap stuff that it uses to produce. How would you feel if a new company launches a new range of lenses called Zosina, and tells you that half the lenses in the lineup are junk and half are good ones, and you have no way of telling which ones are good? In most products, it is the value of the brand which deters producers from cheapening their products. The brandname is a characterization of quality. After all, you would more likely buy stuff from B&H/KEH or even an Ebay seller with a high rating, than bid for stuff whose seller is some Nigerian entity with zip sales record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msitaraman Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 This is Zeiss, man, Zeiss!! What's so hard to understand about that? A Zeiss Ikon is a Zeiss Ikon is a Zeiss Ikon; a Contax is a Contax is a Contax; Kyocera and Cosina notwithstanding. Zeiss is not going to sponsor some project producing third rate glass. Their site has their development chief saying that his opinion is that these are the best 35mm lenses ever produced, period. Coming from someone else, one might suspect hype. But from the head of the most famous optical lens company in the world for the last 125 years? Take this camera and its lenses dead seriously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r s Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 <i>Ikon, nIKON. Surely Cosina is not the first to use the stratagem of raising the dead to market their product.</i> <br><br> Huh? It's Zeiss. It's Ikon. One one their own brands? Where did you get the nIKON Ikon from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbing Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 The story I heard was that the Japanese took the 'Z' from 'Zeiss' and rotated it 90 degrees to form the letter 'N'. Ziess Ikon => Z Ikon => N Ikon => Nikon. It seems plausible that they would want to capitalize on an established name in the camera business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg choong Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 why dwell on old ZI when you can have a brand new ZI system and give leica a run for their money! http://www.zeissikon.com/camera.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_kim2 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Heres an interesting bit to add I found on Dante Stella's site. I didnt read it in depth but it looks like NIKON once sued Ikon over the name... http://www.dantestella.com/technical/nikonikon.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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