Olympus E1 for weddings

[arsenal74]

Hello

 

2005 will be my first full year of shooting weddings. I currently use

an Olympus E1, 14-54 and 55-200 with FL50 flash, I also take an EOS

film body with 50 1.8 prime and 28-80 as my backup.

 

My question relates to camera settings and ISO. One of my final

weddings last year was on a reasonably sunny day so I shot ISO

100/200 outdoors with the E1 and ISO 800 for the ceremony indoors (no

flash alowed). I am very disappointed that even on the ISO 100 shots

there is noise visible especially on the mens suits. The shots in

question were RAW and processed in PS CS, I bracket and most shots

from the E1 tend to be a tad underexposed especially when you have a

white dress and a dark suit! Is it the adjusting the exposure that is

causing this noise? Or is the E1 just a noisy camera? (it has after

all recieved very mixed reviews) Currently I would even hesitate to

use ISO 400 for outdoor shots which is something I would love to able

to do.

 

I love the build quality of my E1 but have to admit to never being

totally blown away by it's image quality yet, maybe I want too much

as it is after all only 5MP. Plus when you factor in poor noise

performane compared to say Canon and the rubbish low light focussing

I have to admit I am considering that I may have purchased the

betamax of digital SLR's and that jumping ship to the EOS 20D could

be the way forward. If it wasn't for Olympus's ultra sonic wave

filter I probably would have already (I hate dust!!). Also the image

quality of the E300 (Evolt) does not appear to bode well for the

future of the E-system as the jump from 5-8 MP seems to have caused

problems with noise again the biggest one, I was planning on having

the E300 as a backup until I saw how it looked and then read the

reviews.

 

Would welcome feedback from any other E1 users as to what experiences

they have had.

 

Neil

[edward_h]

I don't own an E1 myself but I have shot a few weddings...

 

First of all, noise is an issue. Sure, iso800 on even the best Canons isn't noise-free, but it's far better than the E1 and miles better than the E300. In dark churches you need all the light you can get, which means both iso and f2.8-zooms or even brighter primes (something the 4/3 system doesn't have).

 

Second: if you're going to be shooting groups, like I did at the last wedding (about 30+ people on the steps outside) you REALLY need megapixels. Having pretend megapixels a la D2H's four ("but they're GOOD pixels!" or the E1's five ("it's a great new system! Look over there!") is just not going to cut it. I'll admit I managed to pull the group shot with 6 megapixels but that was because of the sharp glass (20/1.8 stopped down quite a lot). The next wedding I'll be shooting I'll have at least one 8mp camera and hopefully a 16mp...

 

Third: Dust really isn't a problem if you're shooting at f2.8 or f4, which if you shoot weddings inside churches will be pretty much all the time. Dust is only visible at larger apertures (f8+) and even then it's easily correctable. Thou makest too much of a problem of it.

 

My suggestion: Think long and hard about the 4/3 system. Why is there so much noise? Why are there so few lenses? Where are the stabilized long zooms? Where are the f2.8 zooms (not that there's all big a jump to f3.5 but sometimes that small ?-stop isn't something you can afford at a wedding). Where are the higher FPS-cameras or the higher MP-cameras (that don't have their higher MP canceled out by noise)?

 

I myself shoot Canon and that's because Canon gives me the largest selection of bodies and glass NOW. Not in xx weeks or xx months like Nikon absolutely loves to do (case in point: D2X delayed several weeks - for now). Fuji has basically 1 body, Kodak has a body you can't take out of the studio...

 

Etc etc etc.

 

With Canon I get a CHOICE of what to use.

[dzeanah]

I wonder if Edward's post wasn't overly negative. There are quite a few wedding shooters who have been successfully using Fuji S2s for years and they seem quite happy -- many of them shoot in jpeg mode and still seem to get by...

 

If you look in other forums and find that most photographers who shoot with 6 megapixel cameras seem happy with them (or at least as happy as they were with 35mm), then I think I'd look elsewhere for solutions. My understanding is that the 5 megapixel sensor in the Olympus offers about the same pixel density on an 8x10 as the 6M cameras due to cropping issues (none required on the Olympus).

 

Now, as to shooting 800 ASA...Can you compare what you're seeing to 800-1000ASA film you've shot in the past?

 

Any chance you can show us a sample of the problem you're seeing at 100 ASA? I don't doubt that it exists, but I wonder if there's something you can do differently (workflow, sharpening, use of noise reduction software) to minimize/eliminate the problem. I've seen images from my A2 with monster grain, but there are a few people out there in cyberspace who seem to have mastered the art of double passes through Neat Image that get normal-looking sharp (but grain free) images from 800 speeds on that ultra-noisy sensor.

[archie_alcantara1]

Dust could be a problem, but if you are one of those people that are good with your hands...then this is a non issue. Edward, shooting a group of 30+ people, I would imagine you have to stop down your lens to F8 or even smaller....if so tdust becomes an issue, right ????

[tim_gruber]

Just a thing on the dust issue. I think it's overhyped by a lot of people. Can dust be a problem? Sure, but so can a slew of things. I'm also not shooting skies at f/22 looking for little specks to show up. My cameras frequent far dustier enviroments than a wedding. Think of documenting a fall grain harvest for a week and the dust my camera consumed. Did it survie? Yep. Have I cleaned my sensor since? Nope? In fact I haven't cleaned my sensor once. My point? Don't base your buying decisions on a what to me is a mute point. Look to the bigger picture.

[arsenal74]

Thanks for all the replies, a lot of good points thanks.

 

I have not had any large groups yet (30 the biggest so far for the group shot) but cropping does worry me on the E1, my plan is to shoot film with digital for the group shots. It does seem to be a case of pros Vs cons and the E1 does have a lot of pros but the future is not filling me with confidence. The E1has been out a while now and the apparent noise/image quality issues on the E300 lead me to believe that the Olympus can't get their next pro body right which is why we have not seen or heard of it yet, whether you are a pixel peeper or not they are now getting left behind especially when you look at the pro end of the market.

 

The 20D looks tempting but I am wondering what the net resolution would be from those 8mp once cropped for an 8x6? I'm guessing I'd lose around 1MP which is of course still an improvement. Another gripe I have with the E1 is the viewfinder, sure it is 100% coverage but everything looks so far away, my last wedding was a small registry office affair with no more than 30-40 guests but was late in the day, the light was fading and the E1/FL50 struggled to auto-focus, manual focus was very tricky as it was very difficult to confirm perfect focus in poor light especially for group shots taken from slightly further away.

 

I have even considered going fully back to film but the instant review function of digital at a wedding is worth it's weight in gold, although of course I would have far less post production to complete. Currently the 20D appears to be the only viable/affordable alternative but I see the pro's Vs cons as follows.

 

Stay with E1

 

+Great build quality

+Good natural colours

+What lenses are available are excellent, they really are. Even the new Sigma ones are pretty good (but slow ) as the E1 does not use the edges of lens that are designed for a 1.6 crop factor.

+Ultrasonic wave filter (I shoot landscapes for a hobby so often stop down to F16 or F22) I really do not fancy messing with my sensor.

+FL50 is fantastic. I use one with a lumiquest mini softbox and it is great.

+shot to shot speed the same RAW/JPEG. I always hoot RAW no matter how tempting a JPEG may be.

 

-Noise at high ISO (and some at low ISO if slightly underexposed)

-Low light focussing and auto focus speed Vs Canon

-Distant viewfinder/fly by wire manual focus combo

-resolution.

-Lack of choice of lenses and accesories and what there is are very expensive (?380GBP for the battery grip and battery)

-The future. No next gen pro body on the horizon. Small sensor/high noise even more pronounced on 8MP E300. Is 4/3 a white elephant?

 

Jump ship to Canon

 

+Resolution

+Lens/accessory choice

+low noise, great image quality

+Current backup camera is Canon EOS film.

+Future support.

 

-Dust

-Additional Cost - Would lose money selling my Olly gear and would probably not have enough for a 20D with equivalent quality lens and flash.

-Convincing the wife it is a good idea!!

-Whilst there are more lenses, there are a lot of rubbish ones and most are not designed for digital.

-Have to crop 8MP images to achieve 8x6 ratio prints.

 

Having said all of this all my clients have been very happy so far with what I have given them. You never know maybe Olly has something up their sleeve or maybe Sigma will announce a foveon 4/3 body now that would be interesting!

[fotografz]

Just get a film camera for now, earn with it, and then get a digital body of the same make

later. As you've determined, jumping systems is VERY expensive. Make a determination as

to which will fit your future needs based on what's available today, then stick with it.

 

Either Canon or Nikon will do the job now and well into the future, so consider a F-100 or

a Canon EOS 1n or 1V film camera, and concentrate on the important stuff, like lenses. In

a year the Canon D20 will be history, therefore a lot less expensive. Same for Nikon's

current offerings. Or wait until stuff like the Canon 1DMKII slides into your price range.

Heck, the Nikon D1-x is a fine wedding camera and is getting less expensive by the day.

[patrick_lockwood]

I shoot with 2 E1s, and the results are very good. Just adjust your camera to get the right exposure. Very little noise on good histograms.

 

Fast glass? Get an Adapter for Contax RTS lenses, Nikon F lenses, Exacta, or OM glass. Plenty of fast glass, but you will lose AF.

 

 

However, ISO 800 at F/2 is good enough for most low lit churches, in my experience, and the 50mm F/2 is pretty sharp wide open.

 

I find that wedding dress detail is good enough at a proper histogram, and I don't buy this idea that one must underexpose. I don't, and the dresses look fine. On a bright sunny day, you might have a point, and there I supplement my shots with film, to play it safe.

 

I hired a 10D second shooter, and his out of camera colors were not as beautiful as my E1's, not to my eyes, anyway.

 

 

For X sync, I get 1/320 with a third party flash.

 

Why would you need ISO 400 for outdoor shots (unless during twilight hours or on a cold damp cloudy day)?

 

 

For dark receptions I slave flash, and shoot every shot with two flashes (if the cieling is too high to bounce). One on camera, the other on a pole held by my assistant, and this really helps. The slave is bounced to help get rid of the cave effect, but the 285 must be set to full blast on vaulted cielings.

 

The E1 is weather sealed, built like a tank, dust free, and reliable and there are no front or back focusing issues. Shutter actuation spec is 150K, right up there with teh high end Nikon's and Canon's.

 

 

Patrick

[arsenal74]

Thanks for the answer, it is good to hear from someone using the E1 for weddings.

 

Do you have a flash bracket for your flash? How are you finding it, I currently have the FL50 camera mounted but it is very uncomfortable shoting in portrait as the camera feels very unbalanced, plus of course the concern over shadows with the flash off from the side even with fill-in. I have been looking at the battery grip but it seems extremely expensive when compared to other manufactuers (Up to ?400 here in the UK, when the one for my EOS 50 was <?100) I have also been considering a flash bracket that flips,although I have heard that these are equally awkward to use.

 

It is a great camera. Put a 10MP foeveon chip in there with better high ISO noise and I'd be set for life!

[steve_hovland]

I have this flash bracket which I got for $15:

 

http://www.bugeyedigital.com/product_main/bow-va313.html

 

I use a Vivitar with Lumiquest Softbox wired to the camera with a Wein Safe Sync.

[patrick_lockwood]

<blockquote>Thanks for the answer, it is good to hear from someone using the E1 for weddings. Do you have a flash bracket for your flash? How are you finding it, I currently have the FL50 camera mounted but it is very uncomfortable shoting in portrait as the camera feels very unbalanced, plus of course the concern over shadows with the flash off from the side even with fill-in. I have been looking at the battery grip but it seems extremely expensive when compared to other manufactuers (Up to ?400 here in the UK, when the one for my EOS 50 was </blockquote>

 

 

I used to use a bracket, but not using it so much these days. An assistant with slaved flash mounted high on a pole is one solution I use, this will push down the shadows (lighten them to the point of not being annoying, not to me, anyway) caused by vertical shooting. If I had to use a bracket, it would be a hefty thing which would allow me to shoot vertical, without affecting the flash position, and I would probaby gerry rig it for two flashes (one pointed at the cieling, the other direct and undiffused, I'm toying with the idea, so i can free my assistant to do other thing than holding a pole). My FL-50 no longer syncs properly, and I now use either a Sunpack 433 thyristor, or the FL-40, which works just fine. I never use high speed sync. Flash exposure compensation can be achieved in camera for the FL-40. If I need to sync faster than 1/180, I use the Sunpack, and the fact that it cannot communicate to my camera (other than trigger) allows 1/320 sync, which is nice, and no guide number shrinkage like you would get with the FL-50. I used to achieve this with the FL-50 (syncing at 1/320) by triggering the flash via a pc to shoe adapter, thereby disabling flash to camera communication. What I liked about this was that all I had to do is adjust the ISO and F/stop on the flash (and that info will not appear unless you disable communication), and it worked fine in the auto thyristor mode, and you get 1/320 sync. You can shoot all day on two batteries, so I don't see getting the grip. <p>Patrick

[todd frederick]

I did not have time to read the other comments but will later.

 

For about a year I was using a Canon 10D and had constant problems with consistent flash exposure. Either too light or too dark.

 

The 10D is a wonderful camera but it was very frustrating for me.

 

Today I bought an Olympus E-1 with two lenses from a friend who just bought a Canon 1Ds, and I sold my 10D system to a photo student.

 

I put a Vivitar 285 flash on my new E-1 today, put the E-1 on M mode at 1/100 f/8 and set the flash to match that setting, and the images were dead-on accurate. That's a first for me with digital flash.

 

I would not hesitate using this system for any wedding.

[ky2]

Huzza Todd :) I told you that this E1 is a SHARRRP tool!

[patrick_lockwood]

<blockquote>

I put a Vivitar 285 flash on my new E-1 today, put the E-1 on M mode at 1/100 f/8 and set the flash to match that setting, and the images were dead-on accurate. That's a first for me with digital flash.

 

</blockquote>

<p>

 

Yes, the Vivitar 285 is very sweet, powerful. Only thing I don't like is that the head does not rotate. Make sure the trigger voltage is low -- I tested mine and it was 7 volts, so it is safe. I tested my 283 and it was 98 volts. Although the manual says it can handle up to 250, I talked to a Oly tech and he said he wouldn't chance it with high voltage flash.

<P>

 

Patrick