Developed my first 4x5 negatives

[andrew_limiti]

I proudly developed my first 4x5 HP5 negatives yesterday, using tray

development. Unfortunately 3 of the 4 negatives had a significant

scratch, and I am wondering if I should use the HP combitank instead.

There has been lots of discussion of this in past posts, but I'm

still undecided. The advantage to the tank I assume is less chance of

scratches and I don't have to put my hands in the chemicals. The

chemical usage is 36 oz, which seems reasonable. Any comments or

suggestions before I go down this path.

[michael_young3]

Jobo 2500 series tanks use 270 ml of chemistry for 6 sheets, FWIW. Even development, even agitation, in daylight after loading. The downside is they really work best with the rather expensive processors.

[steve_feldman3]

Andrew,

 

Congratulations and welcome to LF.

 

Try the Unicolor system. It follows the McDonalds approach: Fast, Cheap and Easy.

 

For me: no runs; no drips; no errors. No scratches either. Just copy and past the entire string below. Great information to be had.

 

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:g06mEI1AC6EJ:www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/+unicolor+motor+base&hl=en

 

As always - your mileage may vary.

 

~S.

[david_beal___richmond_hts.]

I second the welcome to LF. It's fun, challenging, and ever-changing. It's also a peaceful place for those of us who believe that the best photographs are NOT made with electronic or automation, but with emotion.

 

As to negative developing: Jobo has a great system, and Unicolor drums can be effectively used. I recommend BTZS tubes, which you can buy, OR can make using 1.5 inch diameter ABS (black) plastic tubing and fittings. Search on BTZS on this forum, and on largeformatphotograpy.info, and tune into BTZS.com while you're at it.

 

Good shooting.

 

David Beal ** Memories Preserved Photograpy, LLC

[ronald_moravec1]

The jobo can be used with inversion just like a stainless steel one. It just get heavy with 1400 ml.

 

Fill with 1200 or so, add the reel, add the cap, add 200 more thru the lid,add cap you are good to go.

 

Don`t buy one with the cog lid for the processor.

[Troll]

www.summitek.com. Check out "The Cradle" to develop 6 sheets in a 11x14 tray.

[michael_veit]

Don't give up on tray development after just one try -- its simplicity and flexibility makes it worth mastering. For my tray processing a few things are critical for avoiding scratches:

 

--Adequate developer depth. I use about 26 ozs. of developer, but in a 5x7 tray, so there's plenty of depth there to work with.

 

-- develop emulsion side down. You'll find debate on this, but I find having base side up is better since scratches are more likely to come from top down than the other way around.

 

-- tilted tray to keep negs stacked in a corner. Less sliding around of negs against another.

 

-- Good shuffle technique. While I'm pulling a neg from the bottom of the stack with the fingers of my right hand, the thumb of my left is pushing the left side of the stack back down so that there's a lot of developer depth between the remaining stack and the new neg being dropped on top of the liquid.

 

With practice, it all becomes quite easy. If I scratch one negative out of a hundred these days, it's a lot. And even those scratches are always on the base side and can be fixed with nose grease.

[john_cook1]

Certainly many people develop sheet film successfully in trays. It is the only practical method for 8x10. Large 3-1/2 gallon tanks hold too much chemistry to dump after each use and too much to easily hold at the correct temperature in a cold or hot lab.

 

That said, I have used 4x5 HP Combi tanks for several decades without a single problem. I do not, however, recommend the daylight method for either these tanks nor rollfilm tanks. Slowly pouring chemistry through that tiny cover hole is a recipe for disaster.

 

I use the method described by Eugene Singer in his article:

 

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/alternative-developing/

 

While several Combi tanks cost more than just one, all together they are much less than a Jobo and much more dependable. The next time you experience a power failure in the middle of a run you will appreciate the low-tech method.

 

I have a hardly-used Jobo RC print dryer which needs a new part after fewer than fifty 11x14 prints. The factory told me that model is discontinued (no parts) and suggested I spring for twelve hundred dollars for the new model. I have had the same (manually-operated) film tanks in daily commercial use since 1967. Still work great. Does that tell you anything?

[jay_de_fehr]

Tray development is really simple and foolproof if you develop one sheet at a time. When you add sheets, you add variables that are prone to error, such as agitation method. I will never shuffle develop sheetfilm in a tray again. I know, it can be done, and I've done it successfully, but occasionally a negative is scratched or otherwise ruined, and that is not acceptable to me. If I develop sheetfilm in a tray, I develop one sheet, and agitate by brush. If I want to develop more than one sheet at a time, I'll either use a unicolor print drum for 4 sheets of 4x5, or BTZS tubes for up to six sheets, or a large tank for up to 50 sheets. Developing sheet film individually has a lot to recommend it, especially for the inexperienced, and shouldn't be discounted offhand. I enjoy my time in my darkroom, and lavishing attention on my film and prints, but I have no clients or deadlines either. Enjoy your big, beautiful negatives, and good luck finding a suitable method of development.

[nikolaos_tsiouris1]

try the jobo tanks with an old unicolor drum and us the time for continuous agitation on the film sheet for developing time

other than getting used to loading the film on the reels i see no downside

PS try loading your discarded negs with good lightining and then in the dark before the good ones

welcome to LF

[nikolaos_tsiouris1]

make that a unicolor roller

[macgregor_anderson]

I just started out in 4x5 a few months ago, developing in trays. I scratched my first few sheets. But I got the hang of it pretty soon, and now I scratch maybe one in every five or six batches of four. That's too much for many people, but I know I'm getting better at it, and I'm happy to keep working this way. Haven't tried any of the other techniques, but I will say that a little practice makes trays very manageable.

 

Hope you enjoy the new format! It's an awful lot of fun I think.

 

mac

[User_503771]

Congratulations!!!! Here's hoping your new love affair is a long one!

 

Regarding development: I've developed 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 always in trays. Even some 3-1/4x4-1/4 some years back -- and 6x9!

 

I can't remember the last time I scratched a negative. I believe it might have happened a few times early on, but my memory doesn't serve....

 

In any event, I *do* recall reading "The Negative" by Ansel Adams, and studying very carefully the illustrated instructions, especially about how to shuffle the film. Fred Picker's advice probably chimed in there too.

 

I practiced in room light with discard 4x5 sheets in an 8x10 tray, which I use for 4x5 and 5x7. Gives plenty of room for my hands, which are a bit large because of long fingers. In a pretty short time practicing, you can get it to the point of being pretty instinctive, especially if you've worked with rolls of film before.

 

If you just get a good shuffling technique going, and apply only just the minimum amount of force to the film to get the film to move around the way you want it, you can do okay. I can develop 6 sheets at a time, even 8x10, with a good measured not-too-fast pace to get through a complete cycle every 30 seconds. With 4x5 or 5x7 if I'm impatient, I can do 8 sheets that way -- more than that gets to be kind of a sweat.

 

Anyway, I second the above notion: Don't give up on tray development!

 

Of course -- belatedly -- it occurs to me also that, if you don't want your hands in the chemicals that much, one of the other techiques mentioned above is to be advised.

 

I suppose maybe a separate thread could concern itself with: What's the latest data on photo chemistry toxicity? I feel certain it gets absorbed through the skin -- anybody got more data on this subject?

 

Good luck!

[paul_hoyt]

When I started LF B/W photography I used a tank that was plastic and I had to slide my negative into slots then cover with a plastic lid. After the tank was loaded I could develop with light on and pour solution in and out top. Ansel Adams revised his Basic Photo Series and he had a great chapter on tray development of 4X5 negatives. I followed his technique and I have never scratched a negative and I have never used the tank since. If I have 3 negatives that need Normal development and 3 that need N+1 development, I can place each set in two trays of water and start developing the N+1 set first. If N+1 is 9 minutes and Normal is 6 minutes, I will add the Normal negatives after 3 minutes of developing the N+1 set to my deveoping tray. With tray development you can develop negatives for different durations in one session.

 

Look for the Ansel Adams series that was produced in collaboration with Robert Baker. There were 3 books in the revised series and the subject of Book 2 was The Negative. There is great information on the various ways to develop large format negatives/

 

Paul

[andrew_limiti]

Looking at the negatives again, I don't think what I saw were scratches but part of the image. I contact printed them and a quick review of the contact prints does not show any scratches that I can see. I like that tray development method because it was easy to do, uses the trays I already have, and uses developer efficiently. I like the flexibility of processing a sheet or two if I want,however, as a long term method, I am concerned with having my hands in developer/ stop/ fixer several times a week. The thought of using gloves does not appeal to me.

I have ruled out an automated processor such as Jobo (too expensive)so it will be one of the options listed in this thread.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Sandeha Lynch]

If you want a design for tubes, there's one here ...

<p>

http://medfmt.8k.com/brontube.html

<p>

Using 150ml of dev, having just one tube is very good for just a few sheets.

[brian_ellis3]

There's only one reason to use trays in preference to other systems - trays are cheap. Other than that there's no good reason to stand in total darkness for ten or 15 minutes, inhaling chemical fumes, and meanwhile risking scratches that in my experience invevitably occur even if only on rare occasions. It's also difficult to keep track of the negatives if you're developing them for different times. If you have any money at all get something, get anything, different from trays.

[nick_morris]

Hello Andrew,

As you can see everyone seems to have a preferred method. I started out with open tanks, went to trays, and never looked back. I bought a combi-tank and never used it, I was so satisfied with tray processing. That's not to say I didn't scratch my first attempts. But once I got the hang of it, I found it to be quick, easy, with even development, and no scratches. These days I'm only using 8x10, and against all recommendations, process 1 to 4 sheets at a time in 8x10 trays when using Dilution B of HC-110, with at least 32 oz. of developer. I process by time and temperature and use a green safe light with a foot switch to identify those sheets that need more or less development. I'm fortunate to have a dedicated darkroom with an exhaust fan over the trays, but I believe I would continue to use trays in an improvised setting. Maybe its just me, but regardless of the process used, I think it takes some practice to get it right and to refine one's technique. Best wishes.

[nick_morris]

PS> If you decide to stay with tray processing, use gloves. I use inexpensive latex gloves, the kind used in hospitals. There is supposed to be a type of glove that is favored by those that tray process, I think they are "nitrile?". I don't really know much about them, whether that's a brand or material, though I suspect it is a material. Maybe someone else can comment on them.

[koh_boonwei]

i wrap my all trays with those plastic wrap used to preserve food.

Very effective and cheap way to combat scratches.

[andrew_limiti]

Koh,

Can you explain further? Do you mean that you use the wrap on the bottom of the developing tray?