Do Nature Photographers and Birders have the same priorities?

[paul_ashton]

I just spent a most enjoyable morning along the Upper Texas

Gulf Coast, stopping at four locations: Anahuac NWR, Anahuac

East Bayou NWR, High Island and Bolivar Flats. The weather

was warm with no real expectation for a migratory fallout.

 

I was the first visitor to both Anahuac locations and these were

the places I personally derived the most satisfaction and, if the

films prove it, some good shots. Everything kinda went down hill

from there.

 

High Island is world renowned as a birders' paradise and there

were plenty (too many) visitors at the two official Audubon

locations. Every time I set up for a shot a group of birders would

come up and point at my subject, causing it to disappear. Sigh.

 

Bolivar Flats was the same. If you have very high powered

monoculars, you can stand as a group a long way from the birds

and TALK to each other about what you can see. After half an

hour of stalking a large group of brown pelicans and with only a

couple of shots taken, the birders caught up with me and

proceded to scare off my subjects! Meantime a beautiful

tricolored heron flew real close to us and they didn't even notice

it, even though I was clicking away!

 

Please don't get me wrong, I think it's wonderful that so many

people are interested in nature along our coastline and will

come from far away to admire the incredible diversity that is

available. But there does seem to be a difference of priority

between the majority (holding mono/binoculars) and the minority

(lugging around moderately heavy glass). Has anyone else had

a similar experience?

[dfdncithekxlbn8kaglf33]

<i>Has anyone else had a similar experience?</i><p>

This is dilema of public lands, or any public space. How it is used is dfferent to each group, and to an extent each person. I have foudn that your only choice is to not go where they go (hard, and sometimes exhausting), or hit it when theya re not there (hard, but usually just tiring). You could make the same argument about any users of public lands, and has been a dilema (to say the least) since the dawn of time.

[robert_kennedy]

Two words -

 

Hike in.

 

Seriously. You have to get away from crowds to get anything good.

[paul_ashton]

It's not that simple, Robert, not along the Texas Gulf Coast. I

absolutely agree with you but the amount of space dedicated

and open to the public does not always give us that option. High

Island, for example, consists of only two quite small sanctuaries

that are open to the public. There seemed to be more birders

than birds there this morning! Private lands in Texas are, simply

put, private!

 

At Bolivar I did hike in but "they" followed me for over a mile,

perhaps assuming that I knew what I was doing (!) and knew all

the best spots.

 

The truth is that weekdays must be better, but I have to work.

[robert_kennedy]

Owtch! Living in AZ has spoiled me I guess. You ALWAYS can hike in here....

 

Hmmmmmm.........

 

Tough one.... How exactly are they scaring off the birds? Noise or movement?

[karel_geertsema]

Nah.. You haven't been bothered by real birders, just by obnoxious people who incidentally have chosen birds as a subject. When you walk up to delicate arch in Arches NP you will see a photo montage of people with chairs under the arch and a request asking people not to become arch-couch-potatoes (they used other words which I forgot). Of course, this doesn't help. I confess guilty of enjoying the view under an arch in island in the sky when a couple wanted to shoot that arch from a distance (amazingly they didn't even look at the view you have from under the arch: an overlook over the maze district...)

Requests of not feeding the wildlife do not help either: you can make easier pictures of animals if you feed them.

True nature lovers and birders -LOVE- nature and behave differently. They will NOT make that great shot if it disturbes or even destroys, and they will NOT glue insects to a stick for that great macro shot.Real wildlife (e.g. birds) photographers know the habits of the animals they like to photograph, hide for days in camouflage tents and do carry around expensive glass. I am too lazy for that and can't afford the glass ;-). Landscapes are better for my.

 

Live and let live (take and give a little so we are all happy) and respect nature,

Karel

[lawrence_palumbo]

my only advice is keep getting to parks/reserves at sunrise. i find this is when i have parks/refuges all to myself, while most others are still fast asleep. but once 8 am rolls around expect the human species to roll in. most people are considerate, maybe you just ran into an extremely inconsiderate group?

[ryan_taylor1]

Paul: I've had this experience many times. Try Sabine National Wildlife Refuge, 20 miles south of Sulpher, LA. I've spent the last two sunday mornings there. Each day, I arrived at sunrise and had the entire trail to myself until about 10:00. It really is a great spot for marsh birds. Just drive the speed limit on your way down!

[ShunCheung]

I am answering a slightly different question.

 

As Joe McDonald once points out, birders and bird photographers don't mix. They have different requirements and typically can create problems while stuck in the same group.

 

As photographers, we care about light, angle of view, whether the subject is still .... For birders, an overcast day or harsh mid-day sunlight are just fine for them. A rear-end view or a somewhat obstructed one with branches in the middle are perhaps fine for them. They also don't need to stick around for a long time so that the above conditions are right for the perfect image. Instead, they like to move on to see more birds.

 

However, good birders and nature lovers know to keep quiet and not disturb their subject. So in that sense good birders shouldn't bother nature photographers. Just don't birders and photographers in the same group that moves together with a fixed schedule.

[karel_geertsema]

Moose Peterson said it better (than my previous reply).

Check: http://www.vividlight.com/articles/204.htm

 

Karel

[paul_ashton]

First of all, thanks for the moral support - I thought it might have

just been me!

 

The problems I encountered are not the norm and to be sure

most birders who know the areas I visit are as knowledgeable

about the wildlife as I am.

 

And this may be the problem. Places like High Island and the

Spring Migration are reported far and wide and there is a local

tourist industry established to cater to enthusiastic birders from

all over the world. Many birders who come to Texas do so

because of the shear variety of species and of course the more

variety they see, the more species they can add to their "life list".

Bird species counts are very important around here (every

Christmas they do counts all over the region). So the visitors

probably spot a new species and must then hurry on the next.

 

That is in complete contrast to what I like to do, which is to

watch, study and, if everything is good, photograph a subject that

may not be exotic but is interesting to a nature lover. To go back

to Sunday morning on Bolivar Flats, I have, over the years, got to

recognize when pelicans have decided they don't want me any

closer. They simply start to look nervous and one or two will fly

from the front of the flock to the rear. I have found that by moving

myself, camera and tripod closer to the flock at increments of

about ten paces, then let them settle, I can get reasonable group

shots before the critical stage is reached before they all take off.

My birder friends made both noise and too much movement.

Both caused the pelicans to fly.

 

Meantime they could have taken in the antics of a young great

Blue Heron fishing in the shallows, as well as the Tricolored I

mentioned above. But they probably already had those on their

list!

 

The Moose Petersen story is a good one with a lesson for all of

us to go out and teach by example.

 

Ryan, I'm going to take your advice and visit Louisiana!

[arthur_morris_birds_as_art]

Hi Paul, Your problem is that you ran into a group of rude birders. If you had been within hearing range of them as the birds flew, you surely would have heard them say, "That damned photographer scared all the birds." As for photographing at migrant landbird hotspots, I have found in many cases that the birds react very little if at all to human observers. In addition, at Point Pelee the birders and photographers not only get along great for the most part, but the groups actually help each other out quite a bit. A photographer might call out, "There's a mourning over here skulking around behind the cherry tree." A few moments later some birders might alert you to the fact that an exhausted cuckoo is sitting dead-still on a perfect perch... All who commented here might enjoy trying to find the article that I did for Bird Watcher's Digest about ten years ago that dealt with the relationship between birders and photographers and the field ethics and courtesies involved. Kevin Karlson wrote a similar piece in a recent issue of WildBird.

Best, Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

[david_goldfarb]

The Moose Peterson story is great.

 

I've generally had good experiences with birders, exchanging sightings and such. I generally stay in one spot for a while, and they tend to come in to make their sighting and move on. If I've gotten enough shots and am waiting for something else to happen, I'll let people look through the big lens.

[paul_ashton]

It's very encouraging, the good responses to this post. The

Nature Forum always seems to have high quality posts and

discussions!

 

I had a long discussion with a local, very serious, birder

yesterday. I was most surprised that he completely agreed with

my assessment of what is going on. It would appear that there

is a new trend emerging in the birding world that may not be

represented by our collective experiences from past years.

 

My birder friend said that he was so disgusted by a recent visit to

High Island that he will no longer go there! He's also

considering the longer journey time to Sabine NWR in SW

Louisiana just to get away from the "life list" crowd. We are

going to visit a local map company this evening to see if we can

share in the cost of the USGS maps of the area (proof that

birders and photographers can get along just fine!)

 

In past years I have always had good experiences talking to

birders along the Texas Gulf Coast and this past weekend's

experience was a big surprise to me, hence the post that started

the discussion.

[kurt_heintzelman]

I happen to be a NOVICE birder and bird photographer, and I recently re-visited Corkscrew Swamp over several days, but despite getting there when the gates open, I had to contend with several bus loads of 2nd-4th grade kids on fieldtrips. Well, it was simply bedlam at times, despite the heroic efforts of their teachers to reign in their students, keep them quiet, and constantly threatening, "...One more time young [lady/man], and you're going back to the BUS!" I actually had kids crawling under my tripod, then standing up and holding on to the tripod legs to better lean forward over the edge of the boardwalk! But really, I simply dealt with these eager kids in a loving and understanding way, and I found myself thinking about my own childhood fieldtrips, none of which were as cool as a trip to a place like Corkscrew. And of course, there are those concrete questions that kids are so adept at asking...

 

"What's THAT?" they ask, pointing to my rig.

"Well, it's a big camera" I reply. "Do you like to look at pictures?"

"Why are you taking pictures..?" And so it went.

 

These kids were simply thrilled and fascinated not only with the surrounding wildlife, but also with us photographers. Such fieldtrips surely help foster future generations of wildlife biologists, ecologists, birders, wildlife photographers, and so on. One afternoon, while standing next to my truck, ready to depart for the day, I was enjoying an icy-cold Coke from my cooler. I stood watching as a bus load of these kids was pulling out of the parking lot, and several who were plastered to their windows silently waved goodbye to me as their bus drove away. In that instant, I inwardly dissolved and immediately waved back enthusiastically. While those kids certainly challenged my skills and patience, they also allowed me to remember the magic, exuberance, and enchantment of childhood; in fact, the swamp still gave of her treasures to all who came visiting on those days.

 

I was also recently at Crane Creek State Park (along Lake Erie) for a day, and ALL of the veteran birders I rubbed shoulders with were polite, HELPFUL, and eager to point out things I was clueless about. Several birders spontaneously took me under their wings and would even come and get me to see things.

 

"There's a hooded warbler back there in a thicket-- maybe you can get some decent shots..!"

"Thank you so much!" I said.

 

On this same outing, after some birders gave me a tip on where to look and what to see (a woodpecker), I fired-off a shot, and my flash seemed to cause the bird to fly away. The birders good-naturedly said, "He saw the flash!" and as I began to apologize, they wouldn't hear of it, and invited me to come along with them.

[alain hogue]

Hi,

 

Generally, I avoid going in the places where there are too many people. I prefer to find places more isolated. I trial to get the authorization to go on private lands. However, in certain occasions it could be usefull to go to places where there is a lot of visitors (birdwatchers or none). The birds are often more tame and they let me approach more closely.

 

Alain Hogue

www.oiseaux.ca

[p_l_jensen]

No, I never had such an experience as I shoot in areas where there are no people around. I suggest trying this route as well. Birds are virtually everywhere and it's a much more rewarding experience spending time in the wild than standing in a crowd of people. This relates to as to why people are doing nature photography. Is it for collecting images or enjoying nature or perhaps both?

Only once have I seen another photographer while shooting birds and that was a fellow photo netter!

[lawrence_palumbo]

yeah, trying living in the nyc metro area and not seeing another person while enjoying nature or doing just about anything for that matter :-) not too easy of a task around here.

[paul_ashton]

Pal, the whole problem with High Island and other locations east

of Houston is that they are on the main migratory route from

south to north (in the Spring). Given the fact that private land in

Texas outnumbers public land about 1 million to 1, there are

only a few places to go that are legal. A friend who went birding

last Saturday listed 68 species in a morning and he was

disappointed! Maybe that explains why we cannot enjoy the

peace and tranquility you do!

[smile_my_friends]

I'm posting three years late, but I'd just like to say that it makes me smile that Michigan and Ohio birders and photographers get along so well (Crane Creek and Point Pelee). My first trip to crain creek a photographer with a Canon 600mmL had his lense on a eastern screech owl. He set up his camera so everyone could see it and use it as a scope. It was a lifer for me, and a great picture for him. It sounds like what your running into are "twitchers" the kind that just want every bird on the list possible without actually looking at the bird. Of course a birder gets excited at seeing a new bird, but sometimes we don't stop and see the old stuff either. This year I'm making photography my priority and birding a secondary project, but with both I want to TAKE MY TIME. I'm only eighteen years old and have decades to see everything before I die (hopefully). If I don't see a Kertlands Warbler this year, I can always see it next year... and they go to the SAME SPOT EVERY YEAR, so it wont be to hard to find :O)