._._z Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Have fun with your Ukranian b&w film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas_peltan Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Z: And what about new MACO film products? They are from Germany, not from Ukraine:-). And as far as I know, their products are of high quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_chilvers Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 It used to be that carrying film around the world through airport check points was a problem(along with the heat etc) but I read a thread on the Canon forum the other day where a chap was refused onto an El Al flight because they couldn`t open and check his 1 series digital camera! Having said that, I`ve swopped between digital and MF a couple of times and have now settled on digital mainly because of the instant review and not having to have a small 12V fridge in my car in the summer(although I have had problems getting the colours and tones as I want them in very hot conditions with digital) There is still nothing like working with a MF camera and taking the time to make all of the 10 or so frames count( it is a bit like using my old Enfield motor cycle) full of enjoyment and nostalgia but times move on and IMHO my FF 1Ds produces A3+ that are good enough not to worry with the ability to correct exp etc on the spot. It`s a sad note but film seems to be slipping and losing it`s grip and with the new MF backs and the Canon 17 million pixel camera general quality isn`t so much of an issue as it was a couple of years ago. I was tempted to grab a Bronica rf645 before they went out of production but it might well have become an object to hold and fire rather than use worry beads when you needed some comfort. I can`t see anything replacing my M6 in terms of out and out enjoyment but something had to finance the move on to digital. For those who use and enjoy film I say! Good for you and long may your favourite film be available and for those considering the move I say! try to hang onto something MF so that you can return when you get that feeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 The industry is in the midst of consolidations and bankruptcies. Will MACO survive on freefalling worldwide film sales when other, better established companies either (a) increase their competitiveness or (b) fall by the wayside? Time will tell, but it is not a good time to be a film company, any more than it was in the mid eighties to be a typewriter ribbon company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachariah_edwardson Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Film will become like art supplies, dirt cheep film will go by the wayside, but one will be able to get film for a long while yet. just that we will have fewer vendors and will have to pay more for it. Will we have Fuji, kodak, Agfa, and a dozen smaller providers making film in 10 years, perhaps not, but you will still be able to get film in brick and mortar stores and online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franki_wango Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 "Time will tell, but it is not a good time to be a film company, any more than it was in the mid eighties to be a typewriter ribbon company." Please, only use the approved buggy whip metaphor when trying to show a product that is no longer needed in great numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_ullsmith1 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Anybody out there counted how many silver halide crystals on a 6X6 frame of delta 100 pro? Don't worry about MF . . . I am more concerned about a generation of family snapshots that will be lost in mislabled discs, junked computers and stray trons. Sure, sales trends look grim. But "demise"? I wouldn't judge the 35mm market from your r4 experience. Isn't an r4 basically a minolta with a little red sticker on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudia__ Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 yes, you can still buy typewriter ribbons. and we will make do with whatever emulsions are available. previous generations of photogs did not have all the current selections and produced some fairly good pix. and most of the US airlines are bankrupt. the sky is not falling just because sales figures are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudia__ Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 <i>[. Z posted a response to a thread in the photo.net Medium Format Digest Forum on which you registered an alert:----------------Subject: Imminent demise of Medium Format?Claudia is one of the deliberately blinkered, as indicated by her trolls anddeliberately ignoring facts in favor of hopeful fluff on various threads here.</i><p>she is neither blinkered nor a troll. she just loves film and photography and has a different opinion. hardly a crime or even a slight wart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Claudia is either deliberately obtuse, or worse. N one said you couldn't buy typewriter ribbons today, but she didn't bother to actually read what was written ... or she set up a straw man to knock down. Either alternative is not pretty, although it is indicative of her fanaticism and trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudia__ Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 <i>[. Z posted a response to a thread in the photo.net Medium Format Digest Forum on which you registered an alert: ---------------- Subject: Imminent demise of Medium Format? Claudia is either deliberately obtuse, or worse. N one said you couldn't buy typewriter ribbons today, but she didn't bother to actually read what was written ... or she set up a straw man to knock down. Either alternative is not pretty, although it is indicative of her fanaticism and trolling. </i><p> so i won't win the title of miss congeniality. and neither will you. when did this turn into a beauty pageant of which you are the judge? as for trolling...you might read your own posts, which are often sarcastic off topic one liners. and often very petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 You won't win anything, including an arguemtn when you don't pay attention to the facts at hand, Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakon_soreide Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 When photography came, many declared painting to be dead. When medium format cameras came along, who didn't declare large format dead? "Too bulky," they'd probably say. "Who would want to lug around on those beasts?" And when 35mm came, medium format was probably declared dead. When SLR's came, the rangefinder was probably given its obituaries as well. And I am quite sure that on the advent of colour photography, black and white film was viewed as heading for its imminent demise.<p>Yet today people still use large format, medium format, 35mm, SLRs, homemade soda-can pinhole cameras, and rangefinders which seem to become even more and more popular nowadays. Black and white film still exists in abundance, and people also paint - photorealistically too - even if a camera might be able to capture the same amount of detail. And that's close to the essence of it, really. It's not about the technology itself, it's about the creation of something artistic: the image.<p>Film often makes a bigger difference to the final image than choice of camera, and digital film is its own variety. Some prefer the saturated look of Velvia, some wouldn't let a colour film run through the 50's vintage rangefinder that is all they use for photography, and proclaiming anything of this dead is something we should wait for.<p><a href="http://www.hakonsoreide.com">www.hakonsoreide.com</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 <i><blockquote> oday people still use large format, medium format, 35mm, SLRs, homemade soda-can pinhole cameras, and rangefinders which seem to become even more and more popular nowadays. </blockquote> </i><p> Define "more and more popular." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachariah_edwardson Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Z right now there is somewhere in the range of 140 types of film around for 35mm (never checked up on 120 rolls) and to expect 140 types of film is not likely. as is having Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, and ilford all producing products. Right now there is a Glut of production, due to the fact that you have many commerical and pros going to digital. you have the likes of Ilford going though whats effectivly chapter 11, if only to layoff union workers as they par down production to the newer levels. you have old films being discontinued. But yet, they are bringing out new films...the profit margins for films is still high, and as soon as production falls to levels that are sustainable, its a cash cow, its not like they have to spend money in lots of R+D. I will happily shoot film, enjoying the fact that areas like Medium format will be able to be affordable to me suddenly, when in the past it was well outside my means. And i can happily shoot film till there is some stablity in the digital market, and can wisely invest my time an money on digital. Film was produced for years with very little actual amounts being produced, and yet, companies found profit in it. Heck, one can still buy 110 format film at a walmart. If i was a professional, I would be going digital, but for now, it makes no sense for me to buy a digital camera, only to have it worthless in a few years. 5 years from now, i will still be able to buy film, and I could buy a EOS 10D digital back on ebay for a small fraction of what it cost now, and still be able use the same lenses that i use for my Elan and still buy film for my elan when I want to do film. In 2010 one will still be able to buy 120 roll film and 35mm film, might not have 140 choices of film, but at least i know that my camera not going to be outdated in 5 years and what i shoot will be a heck of a lot more arcival then digital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudia__ Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 that sounds like a very sane approach. despite the chicken little act which .[. Z persists in badgering us with....there will be film. let the insults flow from that source about blinkering etc. doesn't change anything. film will be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Claudia's whining and extrapolation about the fine health of the film biz -- in the fact on inconvenient little things like facts -- is amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudia__ Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 film will be around. no worries. get your luxury film cams now...the prices are excellent. nothing to whine about there. nor is there reason to whine about the film industry. challenge yourself to working with fewer emulsion choices. it could be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 That's the spirit. It's just what the large format people started saying when their favorite emulsions started disappearing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakon_soreide Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 <i>.[. Z , jan 23, 2005; 09:49 a.m.<br> Today people still use large format, medium format, 35mm, SLRs, homemade soda-can pinhole cameras, and rangefinders which seem to become even more and more popular nowadays.<p> Define "more and more popular."</i><p><br> "More and more popular" is a statement based on the fact that after Leica seemed almost alone in the all-manual rangefinder market for a long time, with Contax G on the sideline as a slightly different camera, the last few years many new contenders have popped up, like the Konica Hexar RF, the Bessa Voigtlander family, and the soon-to-come new Zeiss Ikon. On eBay, rangefinder dealing seems to thrive, and it seems to me that rangefinders are more alive than they have been after a few decades of being overshadowed by SLRs.<p> I guess it might be because in a rangefinder you can get an unintrusive, relatively lightweight and compact camera, putting the photographer in control of what happens. I think it's something that appeals to many a photographer who would like something constant to hold onto in a digital world where products become obsolete just as fast as they are launched, a simple tool that makes them concentrate on taking photos, which is what it's all about when it comes down to it.<p> <a href="http://www.hakonsoreide.com/Photos">www.hakonsoreide.com</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 How do you differentiate between cameras being used and cameras being hoarded by collectors? How does your thesis match the objective fact of several YEARS of film sales declines in the double-digits? Where is your proof that camera availability of some types somehow overrides the discontinuation of whole brands (Konica) and types (Nikon and Kodak p&s) of cameras? Please don't be naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudia__ Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 .[.Z is channeling Mr. Spock. beam me up Scotty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Yes, let's ignore inconvenient facts and speculate wildly based upon the introduction of some cameras that are eating Leica's expensive lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakon_soreide Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Sounds like Z wishes medium format and everything film except digital was dead a long time ago. 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Sounds like you want to put words in peoples' mouths to prove a point you otherwise cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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