picturesque Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I've enjoyed reading this discussion a lot, but I tend to think much more mundanely about this topic. The strong factor which greatly affects one's ability to do the kind of wedding photography one wants is the necessity to make a living. If you have to put food on the table, and wedding photography is your chosen and main method of doing so, then your options are definitely narrower, as some have already pointed out. You'll have to take whatever you can get, whether that means shooting the most traditional of traditional wedding photos. If you have other means of support, like "a day job" or another person to support or help support you, or will be doing wedding photography "on the side", then you can steer your entrance into your chosen career more carefully. Unfortunately, once you get into the business by getting a few weddings, you've basically cast your stylistic career direction, and it will be hard to switch. Not impossible, but harder, because referrals usually start driving that direction. Where are you on this issue? Some "reality check" issues: is there an existing wedding photographer in your town that shoots the way you describe? If so, your strategy has to take into consideration how you intend to compete with this person. If not, which seems to be what you're saying, then you need to evaluate whether such a style is salable in your town. If you think so, then do all the things people suggest to get started (like visiting all the wedding vendors, etc.). If you don't think so, then you'll have to spend some time in those major cities you talked about, evaluating their photographers, determining the salability of your style there, and visiting their vendors. This is where a website would be extremely important. From what I've observed, getting into the "higher clientele" circle often hinges on getting that one first customer somehow--luck, footwork, working for another high end photographer, schmoozing with high end wedding coordinators, whatever. Once you get one, and do a good job, you'll be on your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacy Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Steve- I think the reason we have been successful so far is because of our style. I am very honest about how we work and all of our albums reflect this- so no clients are going in unaware of what they are paying us to do. And yes- I have to compromise too, but I try to have limits on that. I don't want somebody walking around with an album of my work that does not represent my style- I don't want to be a very traditional photographer because then I would hate my job. There are loads of very talented traditional photographers in my area and clients that want that style have no shortage of choices. We've booked 33 weddings so far for 2005 at a minimum of $3000 per wedding. Maybe we could've booked more had we been willing to compromise more with some people, but now I'll enjoy each wedding and I won't starve either :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Wow Stacey, that is incredible. You certainly will not starve ... creatively or financially. You go girl ; -) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_sokal___dallas__tx Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Ryan, here are a couple of thoughts from someone with so little knowledge and experience that I have no business replying, but here goes anyway. Maybe, you can have a little of your cake and eat it too. Explain to a prospective couple that your style is non-traditional but you think you could accomodate their desires (those dreaded formals) within your style. Find out their venues and then hustle you a-- over to them and plan a way to do the formals that fits your style. Do them up as a story board (if you can't draw, find a friend who can) and then review them with your prospective clients. You might even shoot a couple of picks of the venue as you envision this and maybe have your artist friend paint in people or have some friends pose as stand-ins. If they like the look, you're in. If not, you have to decide how much you're willing to compromise. As far as high end, in my day job, I deal with lots of very high end people, and of course most of them are already married and much older. They do have daughters, but the parents are much more likely to want what you're trying to avoid. Your market IMHO is the children of the rich and famous, not the rich and famous themselves. Go after those young, techy couples who want something unique. People who are willing to drive cars shaped like shoe boxes and aren't embarassed to have hair colors that don't occur in nature. Let your couple then convince their rich parents that they want you to shoot their wedding because your style is their style. Good luck. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_hovland Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Stacy- you seem to have it pretty well-balanced :-) Any idea where your typical clients lie in the income spectrum? Family incomes over $100,000, over $200,000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacy Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Thank you Marc! I'm pretty excited myself :) Steve- honestly I don't know. Most of our clients are young and trendy and their parents pay for the photography- and I'm sure their florist's bill way exceed our cost :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_hovland Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I was checking around recently and one site estimated the cost of photography at about 6.5% of the budget. If you're getting less than that you may be able to raise your rates without losing bookings :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_clark___minnetonka_mi Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 This is one of the more thought provoking threads I've read in recent memory. Wonderful ideas presented here. I just went back and printed it so far because I can't remember all the ideas brought forth here. Gosh, it's 15 pages! What I've read are all from very committed and thoughtful artists whose insights on wedding photography provide a stamp to show other folks. I'm constantly searching for a better way to tell the story. My vision is still a moving target! It's not that I haven't found it it's that I'm looking for a better way to be the messenger. I Am my own worst critic! Many of you know I'm a big fan and friend of Monte Zucker. He is a master with people, photography and the business. I like what he does create and I'm trying desperately to catch up with him! Boy have I got my work cut out! I believe one of the reasons for my search is because I view each wedding as a unique experience. The venue is different, in most cases, the people are different, the mood is different and, you know what, I like it that way. My experience, well I re-started my wedding photography business back up again in 2002, is that people hire me because of me, my enthusiasm and how I would tell their happy story. I'm more of a believer in the more formal photography but I believe I have a good handle on how to get people to perform so the images don't look quite so posed or formal. My wife and other assistants focus on the PJ aspects of a wedding. I Am making a conscientious effort in creating PJ images whilst we are working on the formals. This business is a moving target. That's what keeps my creative juices flowing. Figuring it out, re-figuring it out, thinking, working, getting better, and better. When you've done your best, do even better than that! Congrats & kudos to all the participants here. This has been one heck of a good discussion by reasonable and mature people. My best to all of you in 05. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Great Thread !! Everyones' opinion thrown-in! This is what makes this Forum ^^ constantly developing everyones engagement. Stacy we are getting backe more to the "traditional"style, only because it is requested by the B&G. The PJ approach is just not for our customers. SO ~ yes it is "possible to limit your style " > when the client request ; we follow suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel j. alexander Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 ::"The strong factor which greatly affects one's ability to do the kind of wedding photography one wants is the necessity to make a living. If you have to put food on the table, and wedding photography is your chosen and main method of doing so, then your options are definitely narrower, as some have already pointed out. You'll have to take whatever you can get, whether that means shooting the most traditional of traditional wedding photos. If you have other means of support, like "a day job" or another person to support or help support you, or will be doing wedding photography "on the side", then you can steer your entrance into your chosen career more carefully. ":: I think this is an important point with regard to beginners, like me. This has been a great thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_gray Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Ryan, 1.Be committed to your craft, commitment makes the difference in everything we do. 2.Be daring, develop your own style. 3.Never stop learning or growing as a photographer and person. 4.Shoot alot. 5.Master light yes but remember that photographs are about feelings/emotions. Good luck in your quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_lockwood Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Yeah, I'd love to shoot like Jeff Ascough, but the Noct. lens is $2500, let alone all the other stuff. <p> In the meantime, I'm getting my bills paid with the lower end of the market -- having fun saving for those Leica dreams and high society brides. <p> Patrick<br> <a href=http://www.ringsandroses.com>www.ringsandroses.com</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_hovland Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Patrick, it's the customers, not the cameras, that make the high fees possible :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I agree with Steve. Some clients put a premium on the pictures over other transient wedding stuff. Our fees aren't cheap for this market, but maybe only 50% of the clients are what you'd call financially "up there". The rest cut back on stuff like the cake and catering a little to stretch their photo budget. We've done quite a few "creative people's" weddings, and they'd serve hot dogs if necessary in order to get the photographer they want. So, marketing isn't always as obvious as it appears to be on the surface. BTW Ryan, the Noctilux is indeed a unique instrument, but to start with you could get a C/ V 35/1.2 Nokton for an M, which allows shooting in almost the same low light level, is easier to focus, and does it for $900. instead of $2,500. ; -) The 28/1.8 V/C lens is also outstanding.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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