Presentation: roadside memorials

[i._g.]

I've put online a presentation of recent photos of roadside memorials,

a subject I've been working on for the last months.

I'd like to hear your opinions/critique on these pics.

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The link to this forum is that all pics were shot with a Leica M6 TTL

and a Summicron ASPH 35/2 lens ;-)

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The pictures are visible at <a

href="http://ilaaan.free.fr/LDP/">http://ilaaan.free.fr/LDP/</a>

(the presentation is in french, but a picture should (more or less)

speak for itself...)

<p>

Thanks for your help,<br>

Ilan

[Alex_Es]

This is quite overwhelming. The memorials are for the most part flowers that are taped or wired on to fences or barriers or put into simple containers. Only a few are more of less permanent monuments.

 

We have monuments to accident victims here in Japan in the form of little gizo statues.

 

I.G.'s work is excellent reportage. I makes for painful viewing.

[terry_rory]

Memorial found in Eastney, Portsmouth UK last year.<div></div>

[beau 1664876222]

Nice. Check <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation.tcl?presentation_id=97863">this one</a> out too.

[i._g.]

Thanks Beau. I was aware of that work, somebody pointed me to it a while ago.

 

I think it is different in that the presentation you point to documents the memorials themselves, while my approach is more reflective on my/ourselves, taking these memorials almost as an excuse to reflect on the wider subject of death and memory. At least that's my goal, I don't know if I reach it (or if I reach it for everybody).

 

Trevor, I had a few shots similar to yours but then I removed those where the reference to the road was not apparent, in one way or another (visible, suggested by a sign or another object...). Actually I was a bit sad about some of those because they were good... ;-) I also removed for consistency anything that wasn't 35mm (I had a couple of nice square MF ones).

 

Alex, I got the "painful viewing" comment from several persons. I don't feel this way but I've been too involved in the making of these pictures, obviously. Maybe it's a sign they're working, as I felt bizarre sometimes spending whole days driving and shooting these places...

 

Thank you all for the time and comments.

[Alex_Es]

On reflection, I think what is most jarring is that these memorials appear so often in peaceful rural settings. The tranquility and the reminder that a death happened there.

[beau 1664876222]

Ilan,

 

By pointing to the other presentation I didn't mean to undercut yours. They're totally different. The other one is much more of a documentary, words-and-straight-images kind of thing. Yours are much moodier and each image is self-contained.

 

My favorites of yours are the one with the sunflowers jammed into the railing and the last one with the "erased" family. It's interesting how European memorials differ stylistically from the Mexican/American ones.

[erik_gould1]

Very interesting work. I have been working on a similar series here in my home state

(Rhode Island USA) for the last couple of years. I think it shows a shift in our culture,

especially where I am in New England that this is becoming so common. We didn't see

this 20 years ago in this region. Where all your pictures made in France? Interesting to

me that this sort of memorial seems to appear world wide now. It seems to me that

people are interested in connecting the person(s) lost to the site in a way that wasn't

done before, instead of ( or in addition to) remembering the person at a personal

shrine at home or at the cemetery. I like your approach, thanks for sharing.

[duolian]

Since my own presentation of roadside memorial photos has been referred to above in the discussion of Ilan�s, I thought I�d chime in.<p>

 

I like Ilan�s roadside memorial photos <i>very</i> much. They capture a lot of the mood these things can evoke.<p>

 

I understand Ilan�s comment about wanting to get a reference to the road in photos of this subject. It is the context that gives these memorials much of their meaning. I also like the fact that his photos capture the local landscape in which these objects are found. One of the important things about roadside memorials � arguably, <i>the</i> important thing about them � is that they are all about something that happened <i>at a particular place</i>. It is the particularity of that place that gives them the meaning they have for the people who put them there.<p>

 

I like Ilan�s presentation of these photos, too. I took a look back at <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=97863">my photo.net presentation</a> and felt that it was too �chatty�. Perhaps that's the risk of too much information added to photos � it detracts from the photos themselves? I don�t know. In any event, I do have my photos displayed in a somewhat different format at <a href="http://home.sprynet.com/~dnance/descansos/index.htm">my personal photography website</a>, with the principal approach there being an images-only gallery, with additional information available on other pages more as an add-on. That might be a better way to look at them.

[cameron_sawyer]

I did not think that your presentation was "chatty" at all. I prefer your presentation to Ilan's, actually, because neither of these are particularly strong as freestanding images. The interest here is in the idea, which is well developed in your presentation.

[g1]

A very poignant presentation Ilan, with [in total contradiction to Cameron's comment] several of the pictures more than able to stand independently. For example my favourites; <i>L'accident, puis la mémoire accidentée</i> [6/37], <i>Untitled</i> [NB501-4, 18/37], <i>La figurine aux fleurs</i> [36/37], and <i>Une famille effacée</i> [37/37], all convey very strong and haunting atmosphere, and communicate a more defined and impactful story to me, whatever it may be. Of course the stories are written in the viewers own mind, and this is what I find so compelling about the images. They stimulate a whole host of feelings and thoughts.<p>

I don't deny the photos work very successfully as a series, just that I wanted to point out some of them worked in isolation too.<p>

A marvelous collection Ilan. Thanks for the link.

[g1]

Another point I forgot to mention, is that I find each picture to have an active purpose, in the sense that respect and quiet reflection upon the life that has passed, has been acknowledged much more profoundly than passing travellers might indulge in. Viewing the images, one can't help offering private wishes for a safe journey for the departed - even though the viewer is contemplating a stranger rather than a blood relative or 'dear' loved one. This works almost like a communal prayer amongst the viewers, and I imagine the grieving relatives would appreciate this particular effect of Ilan's record.

[i._g.]

Erik, yes all these pictures were shot in France. Actually they were all made in the south half of France. I heard this 'habit' (or however one may call it) is not as popular in the north half (and I happen to live in the south half ;-).

 

I have more information on these pics (GPS coordinates for example). I didn't feel this would add anything to the presentation as again, it's not a documentary work about these memorials I was trying to do. For those who understand the comments in french, they are about how I feel looking at the picture or the place, they don't give 'real' details about the memorial.

 

G. and Cameron your comments express the way each of you feels and are both interesting and useful. I don't even feel a contradiction there, just a difference (of course I'm tempted to agree more with G. but who could blame me for that? ;-)

 

I don't find Dave's presentation "chatty" either. Apart from its evident photographic merit, I think his work could be a very useful tool for researchers on these memorials, as it gives information about each site. My wife is an anthropologist and as I was starting this series, she asked me to bring back more information about each site than was visible on the photos, like if there's a mention of a name or a date. Also, since I took these pictures, some of the sites disappeared or changed. I know of some sites that had a life span of no more than 3 days! This could be interesting information too.

[cameron_sawyer]

I didn't mean to denigrate Ilan's images. Some of them are quite strong on their own. I especially like no. 17.

 

But what unifies them in one series or presentation is not anything graphic or visual, but rather the story. For that reason, as a SERIES, I liked Dave's better. This medium -- a story, or collection of thoughts or quotes illustrated by photographic images -- works for me. And Dave has some really strong images as well. But both Dave's and Ilan's images, without text, and looked at as a series rather than individual images, are visually just a little monotonous for me.

[beau 1664876222]

Come on, both Dave and Ilan have done a beautiful job with this subject. Dave can pull off all that text because he's a gifted writer, and the restrained photography works great with his prose. Ilan's taken a more romantic, visually interpretive approach, so most of his personal impressions and observations are baked into the photos themselves. It's just two different ways to engage a subject, and I think it's cool to compare the different ways these guys have chosen to do it.

[i._g.]

I just want to add that although I happily thank people who tell me they like my work/pictures, I'm also <b>very happy</b> when people tell me they don't like what I do, if they can tell why.

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I know it's not always easy to criticize things, it feels better to "be nice" and to tell everybody they've done a great job, or say nothing when we don't like the work (just look at the top rated images on this site). But getting "negative" feedback is very important as well, and in practice, the feedback is not negative at all, it helps.

<p>

So thanks Cameron for your feedback. I can understand your point of view about monotony and even sympathize... Be it only because in my series of 37 I find a few of the pics stronger than the rest, maybe there are 5 that I find strong, so in a way the remaining 32 are weaker and possibly somewhat monotoneous...

<p>

Asking for feedback in this forum yields much more interesting results than when using one's gallery here in photo.net.

<p>

Thanks folks.

[cameron_sawyer]

Ah, c'mon, Ilan, I wasn't actually critizing anything except perhaps the format of your presentation. You are a very talented photographer. I said several of the images are really strong. I just would have preferred to see the strong ones picked out of all the rest and hung somewhere with other strong images on, perhaps, other subjects.

 

Let us see, by the way, some more of your work.

 

Cheers, C.

[pen name above]

Hi Ilan,

 

As you're aware, I'm not inclined towards image-purism, and excluding words at all in a presentation which is designed to express and communicate is very old-fashioned (pre-Saussurean as far as I'm concerned). The words do signpost the images, and at least closes down the path along which the viewer can interpret your work in a more meaningful context.

 

And to offer an anti-thesis to the above paragraph, I've attempted one of my liberally loose translations - you know - the ones where the translator forgets a few words, inserts a few of his own, claims to be adhering to the spirit of the text by refusing to be concrete, whilst imbuing himself with Joie, sauvignon blanc at the same time. I hope I haven't made a travesty of the French, but it has to be said - there are so many verbs missing that I've had to conjure a few up. Don't tell me how awful my translation is - believe me - I know - tell me I did a really good job not to give up half-way through your sophisticated use of the short-sentence, deliberately cut short in the French, to reflect the tragedy within the series (I bet you weren't even doing this purposely or consciously :)

 

I think what I remember most about this series are the opening images and the closing ones (no.36 & 37). I've chosen to critique only the latter two images then. The latter images exemplify a heightened sensitivity and eerily haunting use of lighting to express the psychologically intense landscape, filled to the brim with apprehension and the fear: "something is about to happen". The diffusion of the light across the mist makes this so clear for me.

 

I wonder if the opening and closure of series with these images (i.e. the start and end of your journey in making this series) were consciously applied: if the climax is in the start and end of the series, what about the passage - the process itself, through which heightened awareness of the tragedy becomes foregrounded?

 

Such a question raises the fundamental triadic theory of image-participation-viewer: am I talking about myself, or the image series itself when I ask the above question? It is no longer clear: that is when participation in the viewing process takes place, and I have connected with that part of the series which has drawn me in.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jason

 

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(Loose translation of French text (with artistic licence freely applied)

 

 

Signs of a journey brutally cut short. "Places on the way" is transformed into places where death stops life on its way. Then the life of an individual - a journey in itself - ends where another continues on.

 

On one hand there is an anti-climax gaping in anticipation for those who don't make it in life: those who cease to be, don't ever arrive. On the other hand, those who remain alive, live in the waiting, and wait until their waiting wanes into remembrance. Their life then goes on.

 

Yet in these places there are anonymous signs indicating that something tragic has hit on the way. Their details are often unknown yet can halt an onlooker momentarily as he makes his own way. What does an onlooker do? Beyond a glance, he might cast a thought and imagine the accident. He might even reconstruct it in his mind. Or he might spare a fleeting thought for a victim.........one he does not know. How can a man not think of himself and his own end, or that of his kin, in such places which call into question the cycle of life: surviving - dying - picking up the pieces of life after the loss of others - and to no longer exist at all? Do any of us ever leave a mark of our own existence on others? Do we even know how to trace the marks which others leave behind? When everything passes away, surely all that remains is nothing?

 

In these places we pass on our way. Sometimes we slow down as we pass. Nevertheless, what can be remembered about these places is somewhat hazy. For a while, these places represent the epitaphs of another's tragedy (but not mine) which become the landscape itself. Life still continues to turn on its own wheels. My life. Your life. Ours. We are all mere mortals who live on borrowed time yet yearn for more.

 

This photographic essay expresses my reflections in relation to such locations. I hope that this is an expression which bears on my own death, and the traces left after my own passing which, hypothetical as it may be, is nonetheless certain. Not lest this is a modest but original study of the application of a visual method: one in which an awareness of both tragedy and the dead is symbolically resurrected in the consciousness of the viewer.

 

 

 

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[i._g.]

Thanks Jason for the translation. You did a very good job!

 

When I wrote the original text in french (slightly different on some points but you clearly got the spirit of it) is when I decided to make the presentation french-only, the idea of trying to produce something similar in english was unbearable... ;-)

 

I think each person views these pictures differently. I got some very personal comments from viewers of these pictures (admittedly, only from people I know in the real world and to whom I sent the link). Each one finds different things and relates to different pictures.

 

The opening and closing ones were put there in purpose. I feel the first one summarizes quite well the subject, and the last two have a lot of drama (some on photo.net suggested that these pictures should be at the end of a presentation when I uploaded them). There's no real order in the rest of the presentation, it's more or less chronological (pure lazyness).

 

Anyway, these pictures are meant to be seen printed and not on a screen, so the presentation is not the end result, it's just a convenient way of sharing.

[pen name above]

No problem Ilan (just a severe headache from trying to think in French!)

 

I can imagine the challenge of translating what comes naturally to you (French is your native tongue, right?) into another language. I think it's worth keeping in the French only as your website is a photographic one - no reason why English should be the only web language in use. It's like cinema - I don't know how many people actually enjoy Marlon Brando speaking in a high-pitched German makeover voice, or a Dutch dub either. Subtitles do help though....

 

You're right about English being unbearable! When I tried to translate your statement of intent in a more literal manner, the language became stilted and forced and lost the gentle cadence of the French.

 

I think you're spot on about print viewing and web viewing - often I feel it is a chore to sit and view anything on a computer screen, and have to discipline myself from wandering (I'm that bad with the television, I don't even have one anymore). In contrast, experiencing - participating in an exhibition - or being there, is a totally rewarding experience. The work is very focussed and has a cohesiveness which is artistic - it shouldn't take any serious viewer to work out its integrity.........have you tried

 

www.galerie-photo.com or the Leica forum for more sophisticated feedback?

 

Kind regards,

 

Jason

[philmorris]

I reckon that if I stumbled across a pamphlet of these, I¡¦d buy it. They wouldn¡¦t have to be by you Ilan�º What I say goes for Dave¡¦s series too. The interest for me is that there are a great many of them, each different in a subtle way. How an individual or family felt it beneficial for an otherwise neglected piece of highway furniture or whatever to be decorated by a commemoration. In a lay sanctification of a place at which a family¡¦s way of life moved from bliss to cataclysm. So that the place might in some way be absolved of its sinfulness and also so that it might be remembered and treated respectfully by passers by.

 

In each picture there is all of this. One doesn¡¦t need to know names or read words to appreciate the deep significance each place holds for someone somewhere. And it affords an opportunity for reflection. Like a quiet walk around a cemetery. I think that was the curiosity that took you to these places too.

 

As I said before, I have taken pictures like this; of grottos, shrines, wells and such places others have deemed worthy of respect (which I gladly go along with). Here¡¦s one I took just yesterday. For poor Eamonn Maughan struck down in 2001 at the age of 35 on the A423 heading north into the village of Marton, Warwickshire.<div></div>

[i._g.]

Speed was drastically reduced...

[ilan_g]

Note change of web address for the series, now <a href="http://www.murblanc.org/passage/">http://www.murblanc.org/passage/</a>.