C-3000Z - want good dedicated flash ... ideas?

[watchin]

I've got a friend with an Oly C-3000Z that he wants to take<br>

head and shoulder portraits with in the office. <br>

He asked for my help so...<br><br>

I've looked at it and determined that the built in flash is <br>

just not enough for what he wants (needs a bounce flash unit).<br>

<br>

I've looked at several flashes and need some expert opinions <br>

(as I'm not an expert on the Olympus C-3000Z and it's ilke.)! <br>

<br>

Oly FL-40 - good price used < $150, not available new, seems to have

all functions <br>

Oly FL-50 - expensive > $275, available new only, same functions <br>

Metz 44 MZ2 w/ SCA 3202-M2 - moderately expensive >$150 <$250 <br>

seems to have all functions and automatics<br>

<br>

All of the above would require the FL-BK01 flash bracket and the

FL-CB01 5pin-5pin cable ~ $90 to work with the camera.

<br><br>

Questions are:<br>

1) which of these units do you know about first hand, what's you

evaluation of them?<br>

2) which of these would you avoid and why?<br>

3) which of these would you buy in a heartbeat? <br>

4) are there any other alternatives? <br>

<br>

Criteria:<br>

a) this is for a non-photographer who wants something for a business. <br>

b) changing cameras is not an option. <br>

c) budget is ~$500 for everything. <br>

d) the less manual the better, more automatic and fool-proof the

better. <br>

<br>

Help!! I've already put together my ideas, really need some

confirmation or contradictions...

<br><br>

Thanks in advance <br>

Greg

[GerrySiegel]

So so ideas. Both are big and neither designed for that little guy. Advantage of FL 20 I use with C5050, is AA batteries, including rechargables.Oly is obscure in their instrucion sheets. Perhaps a phone call to company might validate my notation that the check light function wont work with the C3000 model but it will do TTL.Still need the cord,but buy it from paramount.com vice Oly for better robustness. I consider the FL 50 and its little brother too hefty for the purpose described. And too much $.

[GerrySiegel]

Oh yes.Add a suitable bracket which should not be expensive or hard to locate for off- camera use since no hot shoe to work with on that model. I use an old Vivitar with a swivel shoe fitting I seat in the shoe fitting of Vivitar. The FL 20 has been sufficient for all my flash needs with the on camera flash sometimes used just for fill. PS. Nothing is bought in a heartbeat these days, dear friend:-)

[beachncruz]

I use a Metz 32 (Z-2 or MZ-3) Flash with my C-5050 and it makes the FL-20 look like a toy. You will need a Metz SCA-3202 Adapter Module to make the flash fully TTL with appropriate camera models. Metz 40 is another step up..........

 

Jim

[GerrySiegel]

Jim's comment reminds me that Metz makes a simple,no nonsense, flash called the 34CS-2 digital. I have some experience with that one,and its useful and not expensive,maybe 150.00 with small flat bracket. It has no bounce built in capability though, otherwise not bad. Has a slave trigger,so no cable really vital.Deal is to get flash off the camera and add some power,right?...Can your friend live with aperture priority? I have used the FL-50 and returned it because it is large,heavy, and kind of complicated as I see it,designed for the E-1. FL 20 is Lilliputian,pocket size,and very limited range,more idiot proof item. Metz has a fine looking product line I respect and ponder for myself one day,but they are not inexpensive when you add the modules. (I don't know where the Euro/dollar is heading whooey) I am fond of my little 34CS2.Back to your friend,given the necessity of bounce you say, If the price is right,a used FL 40 would do from my speculation.Idea: Ask Todd Frederick a photo net member who recently got one for his two Oly C series models. My frau uses 4000 and doesnt care for any flash and cables etc. Todd,btw, is in the member directory and is always helpful,also a good trader..Aloha, Gerry

[watchin]

Sounds like everone is up on the FL-20... But how can I bounce it?

and will the TTL sensing still work with it bounced anyway?

 

The METZ and the FL-50 are too much, huh, Kinda what I thought. But

are there any alternatives with the TTL and the tilt ?

 

Does the 34CS series do TTL as well(spec seem to say no)?

 

Okay good start... more ideas I need I think...

 

I'll send Todd a note (see if we can drag him into this ;{)

 

Thanks so far.. KEEP GOIN problem ain't solved yet.

 

PS - reason for tilt - he's doing head shots of people and even

diffused lights on any kind of direct lighting are giving ugly

shadows that interfere with what he's trying to show. I did some

sample shots (with my high end gear) and figured out the lighting

arraingment that will work in his place. ERGO the bounce lighting

(white ceilings white walls), a simple neutral backdrop, the rest

is dictated by his experience and need for repeatability.

[watchin]

BTW - forgot to mention... looked at the metz 32 but couldn't find

it available anywhere. Is it discontinued? or do you have a secret

stash ? ;{)

[todd frederick]

Ok, you "dragged me in," but I'm not sure I can be of much help. I'm still very much a digital novice. I'm also still having some problems with balance fill flash outside using the FL-40 on my $

E-10, but that's another story.

 

I paid nearly $300 for my FL-40 on auction and if you can get one for <$150, go for it. I haven't checked lately. That's just a bit more than a new FL-20. It is definitely too big to use attached to a hot shoe so either a side bracket or some form of flip flash bracked would be needed. I use it with my C-5050 on a Stroboframe Camera Flip bracket, and it is very well balanced that way...feels good and looks good. I tried using Vivitar and Nikon flash units on these cameras with limited success: Too many calculations and limitations. Basically those flashes worked fine in camera manual mode and in aperture priority mode (outdoors only).

 

I'm wondering, however, if you used TTL, you might be able to hold the FL-20 in your left hand and bounce it to the ceiling since the metering would be through the camera lens? You would still need it with the hot shoe cord.

 

I use the FL-40 with a C-5050 and an E-10. Both the FL-40 and FL-20 are matched for digital cameras, and are easy to use. I don't have experience with the Metz units.

 

I do not know if the FL-40 or the FL-20 is compatible with the C-3000Z. I'll try to check.

 

The problem I had was with using the FL-40 outdoors to obtain balanced fill flash on the E-10. It would sometimes misread the ambient light and overexpose the image. I think is was a problem with my E-10 and not the falsh. The problem was when I photographed a bunch of grooms in all black tuxedos! Indoors and in all other outdoors situations were no problem.

[watchin]

WOW that was quick... Thanks Todd!

 

The hot shoe on the camera or a bracket isn't an issue, since the camera doesn't even have a hot shoe... gotta use a bracket of some sort ;{)

 

I looked at the other units as well, that's why I'm down to this list and asking the questions. The fiddle factor was just toooo high for the end user.

 

 

As for the compatability with the C-3000Z - I've already checked that and they are among the "recommended" set from Oly for that camera.

 

The hand hold might work for me, I'll have to check on that, don't know if he's a clutz, don't think so... that might be against his grain though. But it's an idea.

 

All the shots with this will be indoors, 10x10 room white walls white ceiling, medium gray background, 5 ft from camera to subject to background.

 

BUT I know the black tux syndrom well (I do weddings.) Two answers I've got. Manual mode or spot metering. Can't help with the E10 though, I only use a Fuji S2 with Nikon SB80dx strobe or old Honeywell 880 potato masher autosensor. BUT using manual mode you set it up for 12 feet, prefocus, preframe, and shot 90% at that distance. Using spot meter and set flash for -2EV, meter on faces, AE lock and go.

 

Have you tried posting to Weddings forum?

 

Okay more ideas to bounce around... any other clues for me?

[GerrySiegel]

GJ,Olympus hasn't done anyone favors on the little proprietary plug/no hotshoe model you are starting with but OK,we are not without experimenting with your time and friends money. Trouble is the more I think about it,the more wrinkles in my thinking that I find,RATS! FL 20 works in a TTL mode,sorely limited by aperture choice,I assume-underline- it will also with yours,but call Olympus Corp before any buy. One of the flash info signals,sufficient light led will not work,or so my tiny flyer says.Re bounce and TTL--Shucks thats not an issue. TTL = TTL. It doesnt matter if you bounce it,the light is measured through the lens right, do we agree? Don't assume you won't have to adjust the intensity some +/ however if that model cam allows. Goes without saying. I use a swivel shoe on top of a bracket. (made by Rowi) Actually,to "confuse" things beyond all hope :-),FUBAR in

Army terms, a plain Vivitar 285HV with a 5 pin to Vivitar connector and a Stroboframe bracket will trigger the thing, but of course,the friend will have to learn to set at least a suitable f stop in his or her portrait setup andthen forget it.But so what,eh. The Metz 32 mentioned is missing in in the current product line. There are others that have bounce and modules,but I don't assume they are fully functional wo confirmation.on line data does not convince me totally skeptic that I am.. The 34CS2 digital is indeed not TTL, but I am not a novice as your friend,so I know how to adjust my aperture. Frankly,GJ,there is no terrific choice,alas. Todd's FL40 (with mfr. confirmation) might be least inconvenient choice for a raw recruit,since it has all the flash contact points at least and has bounce swivel. I have been around a while,but that digicam is a gnarly platform for external flash. I hope someone has used the Oly flash bracket. It might be a sturdy piece of gear to have. But a light stand can do just as well with a flash shoe on top. Oh well.

[todd frederick]

When I bought my FL-40 on the auction, it came as a package with the Oly side bracket. I resold the side bracket, since I prefer an over-the-lens configuration, but, I must say, I used that bracket with my C-5050 for a few events, and that bracket is very solid. The handle can be removed of a handheld approach as well. That might be a more suitable approach with when using the C-3000Z...The C-3000Z, the Oly side handle bracket, cord and either the FL-40 (or FL-20 with a tilt adapter as Gerry mentioned)in TTL. I think that would be the most efficient was to go.

[todd frederick]

Just for the sake of visualization, I'm attaching a couple of photos. The one attached here is my set-up using a Stroboframe bracket. This may be too big for use with the C-3000Z, and the flash sits a bit high, but it works perfectly and provides full coverage event straight-on.

 

I think the smaller Oly side bracket would be better for your friend's needs. However, using the side bracket provides some limitations when working in vertical mode...a flip flash/flip camera bracket is a real convenience.

 

This is a nice set-up and works well with the C-5050.

 

I am attaching also a photo in the next post I just took with this set-up in bounce mode.

 

The only down-side is that you need to do some menu operations to turn off the on-board camera flash when using the external flash or both will flash, and I don't know how the C-3000Z operates in that regard.

 

In order to get a full TTL operation with my C-5050 I have to turn off the IN+Flash option and select just the Flash in the Flash menu options. With the E-10 and E-20, it is automatically set.<div></div>

[todd frederick]

Photo taken with the above combination. No adjustment were made except some sharpening.<div></div>

[todd frederick]

I took a look at the C-3000Z on the digital photography review site and the physical configuration is quite close to the size of the C-5050.

 

Using the options suggested above, I see no reason why you would not be able to do very high quality bounce flash TTL digital photography with the equipment suggested.

 

See: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Olympus/oly_c3000z.asp

 

With a 3MGP camera the print sizes may be limited, but the quality should be excellent within the limits.

 

Again, for your friend's needs I think the C-3000Z camera, the Oly side bracket and cord, and an Fl-40 flash (or an FL-20 flash with a bounce adapter) would work fine.

 

That's what I would do. That is my opinion and I could be wrong......(^0^)!!!

 

Good success and hope it works for you.

[watchin]

Thanks Todd, Gerry, and Jim.

 

Well it looks like I'm back to the plan. Bounce bracket and FL20 or

Oly bracket and FL40.

 

Jim I think you were right about the Metz being a bit too much I finally

found a real price for the adapter module et al. It'll end up around the same price as the FL50...oh well

 

Now to find the right prices ;{)

 

Anyone got one of these combos... reasonably priced..

Thanks again all.

 

Greg

[watchin]

PS - Todd I like the View camera ... nice bit of work.

gj

[GerrySiegel]

Sample couple people shot, with C5050, cropped in to about 2/3 orig file,(not much color accuracy with greens plus skin tone yet still learning PSE.) Posted to demo results at six feet distance with FL 20 plus handheld camera's flash mode. Vivitar bracket,same cable that Todd uses to five pin FL 20, TTL mode on flash and P on camera. Naturally some ambient window room light late PM to help out confuse lighting source,more or less.Grandaughter and Date, Pre Senior Prom Jitters,afternoon of May 8th, 2004 waiting for the Hummer to arrive..

[GerrySiegel]

Trying once more<div></div>

[todd frederick]

Gerry,

 

I photographed a wedding about a month ago tomorrow in San Francisco. The groom and his family come from Hawaii and he wore the traditional groom's lei also. This was taken with the E-10 and Fl-40. I also did these in film. I don't trust myself to photograph weddings with digital.

 

I'm battling Photoshop also. I'm trying to learn to make composites (collage) and I just can't figure out how to use layers in Photoshop. I have another program called Adobe Photo Deluxe 4.0 and it has a composite function that's easy to use. After I get all hung-up with Photoshop I seem to go back to Camedia Master for quick prints or Photo Deluxe if I want to so some special effects or retouching. I can't even to figure out the coloning tool in Photoshop but in Photo Deluxe, it's a cinch!

 

GI...thanks for the comment on the view camera. I just need to get it out and use it more. Digital has me hooked.<div></div>

[GerrySiegel]

Nice shot, Todd. Old dogs learn new tricks. New dogs learn old tricks. PN continues to serve.

[watchin]

Hey so that's why the grooms/dates are wearing the shrubry... Here in

New England people would think he skidded into a ditch on the way to the event and got tangled in the laurel vines...;{0

 

Todd,

 

Here's a PS tip that might help (did for me)...

 

When I want to do a collage I always start with a new canvas (File->New) Image Size set to the output size I want and resolution to what I need for the printer, set contents to Transparent or background.

 

Then open the photos that will be part of the collage, use one of the selection tools to outline what I want from a photo. Do CTRL-C to copy that into the clipboard, switch to my collage canvas and do CTRL-V to paste (it'll automatically create a new layer with just that object in it). Use the position tool (pointer with 4way arrow) to move it around to where I want it. Go do the next one... and so on. You can get fancy with doing feathered edges and all that, but this is just basic operations I'm talking about..

 

If the elements are overlapping the wrong way just move the layers sequence in the tool window on the Layers tab. You can do it all with a mouse grab and drag up and down the list.

 

When you are done do TWO things, (a) save the layered collage as a PSD file with all layers in tact (so you can play with them later) and (b) do a flatten layers and save as a printable file like a JPG (cuts down on time to print)

 

Then print it out... should work. (see you didn't need to understand

layers at all ;{)

 

Hope that helps,

 

Greg

[todd frederick]

Greg,

 

That helps a lot. Much simpler that the book I have. I'll make a copy of you instructions and give it a try. If I need help, I'll holler!

 

Todd

[GerrySiegel]

Shrubbery indeed.As a former Bostonian who has acculturated, G.J.,allow me to identify a Hawaiian custom steeped in tradition,as solid as what ya call ya beans, haddock,and clambakes. The maile leaf lei worn by the groom and males of distinction,is a symbol of royalty,made from the leaves of a fragrant vine. The young lady is wearing several strands of pikake,a local flower of exquisite scent. Be well.

[watchin]

> Shrubbery indeed.

 

Only kidding, no offence intended... at least you can spell more better than me (or is that betterer than I ;{)

 

> acculturated...<AND THE NEW WORD FOR THE DAY IS ...

 

The limited time I spent in Hawaii made me appreciate the wonderful culture and traditions of those islands. My daughter lived there for a while and would regale us with stories of the ceremonies and adventures where she was privileged to take part. You are indeed a lucky person to be a part of that... acculturated or not ! ....

 

BTW - not being a "nativ Ne Englander" I give my inlaws (or are they outlaws...whatever ;{) here just as much gruff... There are advantages to being an ex-army brat, you can kid all cultures equally without malace, and yet enjoy the diversity and beauty of each. Having traveled the world I can pass along stories to the grandkids ad nausium as well, I'll add this to the list.. (you should see the oldest grimice when "Grampy's tellin a story, again.." ) I love learning new things.

 

 

Again - My appreciation to all who helped with this process. I'm sitting down with my friend and making a shopping list today.

[watchin]

Well final closure...

 

He ordered the PROMASTER 5550dx flash unit with the 9901 adapter with cord and a PROMASTER camera bracket. Total cost $203. From

Lake Camera in New Orleans.

 

I know that wasn't any of the options we discussed but it turned out

to be the most reasonable and it does support full TTL.

 

Thanks for the knowledge guys, funny how this turned out.

 

Regards,

Greg