jace_santos Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Im itching to upgrade from my Rebel Ti, and I was about to buy an Elan 7N(E), but now that I have been researching, I think I want to go with the EOS-3. But here is my problem... I am a recent high school graduate so money is a little tight. Please no, save your money for college, blah , blah, blah. But seriously, I think I can get a nice EOS-3 for ~$600 on ebay and I have a few questions first. 1. Does the eye control really work? Is it fast enough to catch say a plane at an airshow? 2. Do you NEED the optional pack to take vertical pics? I am under the impression that you do, but I dont know. I plan on getting it in the future if I do buy the 3, but I wont have the money at first. 3. How quiet is it? 4. While searching the forum, I came across alot of the 3 is getting old kinda stuff. Is it really? Or should this not be one of my concerns. 5. Do YOU think it is a worthy upgradr from the Elan 7N? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy_tamayo Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 >1. Does the eye control really work? Is it fast enough to catch say >a plane at an airshow? Your milage may vary. If you can try one, do it. For me, the eye control works on my right eye but somewhat difficult on my left eye. I dont use glasses or contact lenses. Have not tried it at an airshow though. In keep it ON though activating only 11 points instead of the 45. >2. Do you NEED the optional pack to take vertical pics? I am under >the impression that you do, but I dont know. I plan on getting it in >the future if I do buy the 3, but I wont have the money at first. No, you *do not* need the vertical grip or any other attachment to shoot vertically. These grips just let you trigger the shutter at the normal hand position. (of course they also have extra batteries or extra drive boost...) if you can shoot verticals with your point and shoot, you definitely can shoot verticals with the EOS 3. >3. How quiet is it? It is *not* a quiet camera at all...the shutter sound is loud. The elan is *a lot* more silent. >4. While searching the forum, I came across alot of the 3 is getting >old kinda stuff. Is it really? Or should this not be one of my >concerns. The EOS3 for all its worth is a pro camera. Its weathersealed too (although not as much as the EOS 1 series). You wont go wrong with a 3. >5. Do YOU think it is a worthy upgradr from the Elan 7N? If I were to choose between a new elan 7xx and a mint eos 3. I'd get the eos 3 again. cheers! randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakim_peled1 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 >> Im itching to upgrade from my Rebel Ti Just an itch or a real need (e.g. faster frame rate)? Yes, the 7e will be a big improvement and the 3 will be a huge one but neither will improve your pictures. Spend your time on reading photography books, on a photography course and on shooting (to improve your technique). Spend your money on better lenses. I'll take a wild guess that you have a kit zoom. Try primes. Canon's 24/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8 USM, 100/2 USM and 135/2.8 SF are all great optics in relatively low price. THAT will improve your pictures. >> Does the eye control really work? Yes but it's effectiveness vary with different light levels (EV), lenses and even users. Search. There's a lot of info on this. >> Do you NEED the optional pack to take vertical pics? This is a very personal and subjective. I wouldn't buy a camera without a grip as it's much more comfortable but others don't like the added bulk. >> How quiet is it? Two years ago I was considering the 3 but eventually bought the 30 (7e). Why? After shooting a few test shots with the 3, I woke my wife which was sleeping about 8m away, door closed. 11 years of shooting with the original ELAN (100) spoiled me. Indeed I have heard that the 3 is loud but to know something and to feel it are quite different things. I am positive that the 3 is better in every respect when compared to the 30, but I just wasn't able to get accustomed to the noise. Really, I felt like I was shooting a machine gun, not taking pictures. I bought the 30 and I am very happy with it. Yes, it has it shortcomings but I learn to live with them. I'd rater have it this way than the other way around. >> While searching the forum, I came across alot of the 3 is getting old kinda stuff. Is it really? Or should this not be one of my concerns. It was first produced in 1998 but it's still one of the best bodies around. Nothing but 1v, F5 and F100 can't come close. >> Do YOU think it is a worthy upgradr from the Elan 7N? According from your post you are upgrading from a Rebel Ti, not from the Elan 7N. Happy shooting , Yakim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jace_santos Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 What does the 3 have that the 7n doesnt besides the 45 point AF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_villarmia Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 You won't be able to catch that plane with the body and the kit lens, regardless of how good the ECF is. IIRC, the ECF is rated at 45mph, so if the plan is going anything faster than that, the tracking servo won't be able to follow it. Perhaps investing in some books on panning will server you better.<p> Michael<p>PS: Buy the Elan7. College <b>IS</b> expensive (Sorry, I had to!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_villarmia Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 >> What does the 3 have that the 7n doesnt besides the 45 point AF?<p> Weather sealing, spot metering, better built body, optional motor drive to name a few. Also, the Elan7N has a pop-up flash and E-TTL II that the EOS 3 does not.<p> Another point that you may have overlooked is the weight. The EOS 3 is a lot heavier than the Elan 7N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jace_santos Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 I am not using the kit lens. Right now I have the 28-135 and 70-300 IS's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jace_santos Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 So I guess for an amatuer like me, it really would be worth the jump up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_lau3 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I am shooting slide film with my EOS 3, which serves me for 4 years taking about 400 rolls (I am not a pro) and never have a problem. Somedays ago I could not remove the tripod ball head from the camera, but finally proved to be the problem of the ball head itself, not the tripod socket on the camera became loosen. Extra feature of EOS 3 (and EOS 1V)? To me it is the spot metering (single and multi) feature very useful under tricky light conditions. I have to ensure good expsoure when I take the shot, because slide film has a limited exposure latitude and I cannot review the result (not like digital) until I get the slides back from processing. The area of partial metering (8.5% of the viewfinder) in other Canon cameras is too large to give me reliable spot metering. In fact I still wish the area of spot metering (2.5%) on EOS 3 to be even smaller for higher accuracy. The multi-spot feature is also very useful to ensure the picture is within the exposure latitude of your film. This is equivalent to the exposure histogram feature on digital cameras. I never worry about the sound of my EOS 3 as I seldom shoot in theater etc. I do not pay attention to the noise of my camera anyway. It is true that EOS 3 is getting old now but same as other Canon film cameras. The good thing is that Canon is very unlikely to come up with a successor to EOS 3, so it will be a long living camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_villarmia Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Thats a decision you're going to have to justify for yourself. If you want everyone else's opinion, run a simple search. 90% of the responses are going to be to buy more glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asimh Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 regarding the vertical question, i asked a few weeks ago about this and not only can you use the expensive PB-E2 for a vertical release, but also the PB-E1 (not to be confused with the BP-E1). the PB-E1 seems to be nearly half the price though from what i can tell, it is only available used. Perhaps since the 7 got upgraded to ETTL 2 via the 7N, who knows if a 3N is around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jace_santos Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 Ok, Im pretty intent on getting a EOS-3, Ive decided uopn it. Last question, To get a good flash, do I really have to get a 550? Id have to carry around the Ti until I get a flash, and Id like to avoid that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_peters1 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 The EOS 3 can work with cheaper flashes. I don't own an EOS 3 - but I know it works with any EX flash - and I believe with EZ flashes as well, though I'm not positive. Somewhere there is a good matrix of Canon bodies and what features of what Canon flashes work with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean_berthe Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Your Rebel TI has a center cross AF sensor, which will revert to a vertical sensor with the EOS3 combined with the zoom lenses you have. The EOS3 is a more expensive body to purchase and also more expensive to maintain (more batteries, many more as-expensive accessories). Learning curve to fully utilize a EOS3 will be much steeper than an Elan7. Learn to exceed the TI's capabilities, until then get better glass and wait for the Digital EOS3. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesa_perala Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 1. Does the eye control really work? Is it fast enough to catch say a plane at an airshow? - In some situations it works and sometimes not. I feel it works better in good light and it may work better if you look for a short while through the intended focusing point before you activate focusing. But I don't like the way how the system is designed. I'd like it to work so that with ECF enabled it selects the AF-point when I press the AF-point selection button and after that keeps that AF-point selected until I re-select it. Normally I keep ECF off but sometimes I get positively surpriced when I use it. The most irritating thing it does is that it may select the neighbour AF-point, not the one I wanted it to select. I also use the 11 AF-point setting. 2. Do you NEED the optional pack to take vertical pics? I am under the impression that you do, but I dont know. I plan on getting it in the future if I do buy the 3, but I wont have the money at first. - The PowerBoosters make it heavy so I use my EOS-3's either without or with the Battery Pack BP-E1 which uses 4*AA (plus the standard battery which you take in use with a switch) and does NOT have any vertical controls. A pro I know doesn't use the vertical controls of his PB-E2. 3. How quiet is it? - I'd say it is in the same level as most pro film bodies of today. More silent than old F1 with motor (I think) but clearly louder than e.g. my EOS 10D. 4. While searching the forum, I came across alot of the 3 is getting old kinda stuff. Is it really? Or should this not be one of my concerns. - Well, it is oldest of the bodies which have the 45-point AF-area but still very similar to them. Might be slightly slower as well. 5. Do YOU think it is a worthy upgradr from the Elan 7N? - I updated to EOS-3 from EOS-50E (Elan IIE) and have now also an EOS-10D. The 10D is close but if there were a EOS 3D I'm quite sure I'd get it instead. I like the metering of EOS-3 (not because of the results because I always use the partial metering area but) because after I have locked the exposure with half-press of the shutter button (that's how I have configured it) EOS-3 still shows the exposure difference to the locked value when I point the partial metering area at different points of the subject. This way I can estimate if any area will overexpose etc. Vesa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_smith2 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Power Boosters - yes the EOS 3 will work with both PB-E1 and the newer PB-E2. Points to consider, the later E2 has more functions, but if using in the portrait/vertical mode these to a certain extent are redundant, that is perhaps a personal observation as I never find time to use anything but the shutter button with action photography! Point to watch is that the nicad batteries are different and cannot be interchanged. The older E1 batteries suffer from memory charging problems and do not hold their charge, in the UK at least new E1 batteries are as rare as hens teeth. So picking up a second hand PB-E1 unit and nicad charger may not be such a bargain unless the nicads are in good condition. That said the "AA" battery cradle works well when used with the newer 2200mah rechargeable batteries. Regards choice of camera, if you are going anywhere near moving or action photography the 3 is a far more capable camera, the autofocus "engine" is streets ahead of the 7N. If however your bread and butter photography is ananimate subject based the 3 may be overkill and you would be better getting some prime lenses with the difference in price. Mike Smith London Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick roberts Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Negative points of the 3: the noise. Frankly, that's the only one that bothers me - I have also been spoiled by the superlative 100/Elan. For me the biggest advantage is the spotmeter - it's terrific - and the AF is superb - I have mine set up to use ECF on 11 points (with linked spotmetering) and for me that can certainly cope with aircraft. I can then quickly switch off ECF, and I set the camera up to just use the central point. But I confidently predict that even with 45 points active and the camera set to choose the focus point itself (slowest case for focusing) it would do a pretty good job for you. As regards the grip/battery pack - I hate them, and would only consider it if I needed the faster frame rate (I don't!) or if I wanted to hand-hold a 400mm or longer lens (I don't!). The 3 is quite big enough already, thank you! It might not have been released that recently, but there are very few film cameras out there who can touch the spec. Plus it's been in production long enough for all the problems to have been ironed out! But one question remains: why do you feel the need to upgrade? Apart from speed of AF, your current camera is perfectly capable. If it is for better AF, skip the Elan and go for the 3 - if not, you might as well stick with what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaius1 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 1) It does not work reliably if you wear glasses. Having said that, I lent mine to a friend and ECF worked flawlessly for her, she didn't even need to calibrate for it. 2) No, but personally I find it a lot more comfortable to use the vertical grip. Note that this also adds the ability to switch between 3fps and 6fps. The basic EOS 3 just has 4fps. 3) It is not quiet!! Maybe this is a good thing (someone said it's good so models know when to change poses). Put it this way, indoors, you will not be able to shoot without someone hearing. With the EOS 30, you could easily. 4) Old, maybe, proven definitely. 5) I upgraded to EOS 3 from EOS 30. Why? Weather sealing, robustness, area AF, spot meter, safety shift. If you need any of those it is worth it, if you don't, it isn't. ECF did not factor in my decision at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg M Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Regarding the flash question, the EOS 3 works in ETTL with all EX flashes and also works in A-TTL or regular TTL with all EZ flash units, so it is much more versatile than other newer cameras in that respect. In some ways, after having been exposed to E-TTL metering and it's effects with the Digital Rebel a switch back to A-TTL and/or regular TTL might be a breath of fresh air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awindsor Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I never saw the point of A-TTL. As far as I know ALL film bodies which support E-TTL also support TTL with Canon dedicated flash units. The 500EX has aswitch to allow it to operate in TTL mode on an E-TTL body but you can force this behaviour on any EX flash by masking some hotshoe pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_goyan Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Hi Jace. What the people are saying about the lenses are true. I just upgraded from a 620 to a Eos3/PB-E2. Like you I have a 75-300. The glass will surely make a difference. The 3 is way more featured than any of the lower line EOS, and better built. As a last shot at a good film body, it is a worthwhile purchase. As for flash, I would like to buy a pair of 550's but that will come later, mine works fine right now with a Sunpak PZ4000, which I can use as a slave later. If you do buy the body, make good glass your next purchase. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad_w Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Jace- If $600 is you budget, there's no need to mess with ebay. reputable online dealers like KEH, B&H and Adorama have used 3's for about $600 or less. they offer unconditional return policies and (usually) some sort of warranty. I'll support the general opinion that an Eos 3 is a huge upgrade from the elan 7/7N bodies. It's big, its loud, but its fast and has a huge bright viewfinder. -brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_larson1 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Frankly, I say HANDLE the two cameras and get the one that feels better in your hand. Is the EOS 3 "better". Undoubtedly. Of course, the limiting components in photography is 1) Behind the view finder, 2) the glass, and 3) (and this is a distant third) the camera body. On reason that the EOS 3 is better is that the AF system (besides the 45 AF points and ECF) has a number of AF points (8) that are "high precision" when using F2.8 or faster lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike f Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I have been action shooting (birds) for years and gave up on the eye control after a very short time. It slowed up the autofocus in my opinion. You can find a very good used 3 for less than $600. Even a EOS 3 with a PB-E2 for less than $800. (I have two for sale right now) I have really liked the speed of autofocus on the 3. The only camera faster has been the 1V. (Which I own) For action shooting at a reasonable cost the EOS 3 cannot be beat. The noise has not been a factor, eye control works for more stable subjects. The vertical grip speeds up your frames per second as well as other features. (7 vs 3 ?) The 3 will probably be around as long as film, well almost, it is too good of a body to replace. Upgrade your lenses first unless there is really a definate need of a different feature in the EOS3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_mcpain Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 1. I would not use eye-control to catch a fast moving subject. I do not use eye control. I cannot risk missing a shot of walking subjects..<br> <br> 2. You have a camera, you can tilt your camera anyway you want. Up, down, horizontal, vertical... You think too much.<br> <br> 3. I have no problem with the noise. It is louder than quiet ones, but I don't need ear plugs.<br> <br> 4. If EOS 3 is old and they come up with a new one... can you afford to buy the new model? So, it all good for you.<br> <br> 5. If you can afford it is worth it. If you are poor? you can take exact same pictures with your 7N anyway. It's the lens that takes good pictures, not the camera body. So, if anything, you should buy a better lens first. Body should come after the lens<br><br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now