tavin_banderwilly Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I was wondering what is the cheapest or most popular outfit of Lecia that I would be able to equip myself with. I am planning a trip around Europe and truely love the idea of one film, one camera, one lens. So I figured if I want to do that I should choose a renound camera. With that in mind, what is a easy to get Lecia (on eBay or elsewhere) and whats the most universal lens. I like something wide. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awahlster Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 ROFLMAO just wait your in for it now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles barcellona www.bl Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 You're gonna get a jillion responses on this. If I had one camera/film/lens it would be an M4-P, 35/2Asph, and HP5+. But thats for MY way of doing things. For your way.... you have to decide on what lens you want first (keeping in mind the speed of the film you like to use), then a camera and film. You mentioned cheapest... If I could find a used Bessa-R2, and used 35/1.7 Ultron and still take HP5+, I'd be nearly equally satisfied. The 35 Ultron (Cosina/Voigtlander) is the equal of older 8 element 35 Summicron. I once hated mine, and now that its fixed... its an everyday lens. Very creamy out of focus areas when shot with wider apertures. The R2 is "ok" but better than the R model Bessa in that it has metal outer covering. Don't expect the finish to last on it - they're notorious for wearing quickly. The M4-P has no meter of course, and the R2 has. I dont miss or mind not having a meter on anything but 'chromes. If you're shooting slides, then maybe opt the Bessa. All that said.... you need to look and look and try before you buy. Your question is of such a general nature, you can only expect answers that suit what others are doing, and have to make your own choices based on that, AND, on looking, trying...seeing what works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles barcellona www.bl Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I ought to add, I never disliked the 35/Ultron's optics, only that mine had a mechanical problem that has been solved. Havine "been inside" it to a great degree (fixed it myself), I can attest that its nicely built. Early ones had a problem with some loose screws internally (or so it seems). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 M6 with 35mm Summicron: can be had for about $1600. with 35mm Summaron (slower lens) you'd save $300 or $400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Actually you could pay up to $2000 or so for what I mentioned, depending. My answer is middle of the road, most popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackers_. Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Film or digital? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfrey Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 <center> <img src="http://www.bayarea.net/~ramarren/photostuff/PAW3/large/22.jpg"><br> <i>On the Water - Sony DSC-F717 + 1.7x Telextender</i><br> </center><br> If you want a very nice and eminently useable travel kit, a Leica CL with a Summicron- C 40/2 (usually about $700 or so in EXC++ condition) along with a Voigtländer 21/4 ($340 new) and Voigtländer 75/2.5 ($300 new) is hard to beat. Replace the CL body with an M6 body and you'll add about $700 to the price of the kit. <br><br> Don Chatterton <a href="http://donchatterton.com">http://donchatterton.com</a> has always been reliable as a source for good, used Leica RF bodies and lenses. So has Tamarkin NY <a href="http://www.tamarkin.com/">http://www.tamarkin.com/</a>. <br><br> Godfrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 <i>So I figured if I want to do that I should choose a renound camera.</i><p> (I assume you meant "renowned.") <p> This is a frighteningly bad criterion for choosing a camera. If this is all that matters, then it doesn't matter and you should take something cheap and light. This is especially true because you appear to use SLRs and using a rangefinder is completely different. Many people don't find rangefinders comfortable for their shooting and end up selling them. Picking it for a new trip doesn't make much sense.<p> You'd be better off taking your D60 and a 35mm lens and saving a lot of money and possible disappointment. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 1)Of the above two merchants they are both horrendously overpriced and the former's grading is one of the most liberal in the biz. His idea of mint- stretches to include dents in focusing rings and deep scratches in the black finish. 2)The CL is the last camera on earth I'd take as my only camera. It is notoriously unreliable both meter and shutter, any Leica service technician will vouch for that fact. 3)<< I am planning a trip around Europe and truely love the idea of one film, one camera, one lens.>> Then forget Leica. One camera is fine if it's a Canon EOS 1V (eg)because you can always pick up a cheap Rebel anywhere in the civilized world in case yours acts up. With a Leica you'll hunt for a dealer and then pay dearly. They are not generally that unreliable but go on a trip with just one body and Murphy's law is bound to get you. If you want just one lens, why pay for the premium of an interchangeable-lens camera? Pick up a nice mint Contax T2 that'll fit in your pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Actually Jeff and Jay give good advice. A Konica Hexar AF is also a possible choice, for about $500 with fixed lens 35mm lens of quality. In any case, you need to take the time getting used to a camera before taking it on a trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_ferguson1 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 "Many people don't find rangefinders comfortable for their shooting and end up selling them." What a sensible comment. I bought my 75mm Summilux second hand from an old gentleman who had been a keen photographer all his life, when he retired he treated himself to the Leica outfit that he'd always wanted. It was a disaster. He'd previously used a twin lens reflex, mainly for formal portraits and a Leica offered him no advantage but lots of problems. His experiment cost him money he couldn't afford and dented his confidence. For many photographers a traditional rangefinder is like buying a motorbike when what they really need is a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del_gray Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Jeff and Jay are right. If you haven't used a rangefinder extensively, a trip like this is no time to figure it out. If you've got time before you go, you would be well served by getting used to rangefinders first so you are comfortable with them on the trip. Also if you are going to take one camera and one lens, the option of a fixed lens camera is attractive. The Hexar AF would be a great choice if you don't mind some automation. A Canonet QL GIII 17 would also be a good option. They are old and not totally reliable, but even if you buy two and get them both CLA'd it would be cheaper than most Leica outfits. The nicer point and shoots (Contax T series, Ricoh GR1s, ...) would also make good candidates. The Ricoh with a 28/2.8 lens plus a 40 or 50mm lens on a fixed rangefinder would be a great small kit that would be relatively inexpensive and give you very nice flexibility. But that would be two lenses. Just some thoughts. Del Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfrey Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Jay, jay jay... Is there nothing in the Leica marketplace that you won't complain about? You truly deserve that "Leica Curmudgeon" classification. I traveled back and forth to europe at least 8 times with the excellent CL + 40 I bought from Tamarkin. I wasn't so fond of its loading, but the camera operated faultlessly for the entire time I owned it, that was about 100 rolls of film. And both DonC and Tamarkin did very well on pricing and quality. The poster did ask about Leica outfits, which is what I restricted my answer to. Today, I wouldn't bother with a film camera at all ... A Canon 10D + 28/1.8 and 50/1.4, with a couple of batteries and 3 1G CF cards, will handle about 95% of anything I need. Add a 70-200 zoom or 300mm lens for when I need telephoto reach. And a Sony U60 stuffed in my pocket for when I don't want to carry the Canon around. Godfrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h_kan_th_rngren Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Take a look at the Hexar AF, and add perhaps a ND filter in case you plan on using a film faster than ISO 100.There is a review at photo.net. It comes with an excellent and reasonable fast 35/2 lens. Handling is easy with auto-everything or you can use manual control as you like. Compared to a Leica, you will miss the excellent manual focusing, ability to change lens, traditional camera control interface and the extra high price. Compared to a point and shoot (and even the Ricoh GR*), the Hexar is a real camera with a decent sized viewfinder and a lens with normal filter thread. Drawbacks are some small buttons, top 1/250 speed and fixed lens.It also have autofocus (+ somewhat awkward manual focusing possibilites compared to a Leica), whether that is good or bad is for you to decide. Buy it on Ebay in case you cannot locate one elsewhere. You can always post a WTB in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feli Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Get an M6 with a 35/2 Summicron and lots of film. Try www.ritzcam.com (many of their M cameras have been cleaned by DAG) www.KEH.com www.photovillage.com For once I agree with Jay. Tamarkin's rating are very liberal. Feli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_chan5 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 If your idea of "one camera, one lens, etc..." also encompasses the idea of almost point and shoot simplicity, then either the Hexar AF or the Contax G1 may be for you. You get point and shoot simplicity with a camera that provides Leica class optics in a small package. The Contax G1 is more flexible, with it's higher shutter speed, stunning 45/2 planar and potential for changing lenses. But the Hexar is quieter, might have a better viewfinder and is far less flashy. Choosing a camera solely because it is renowned seems like you are trying to impress someone with your camera choice. Wouldn't you rather impress people with your photographs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren_allen1 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Forget the digital and Cannon bs. Get an M6 classic usually $1200 in good orderand a35 mm or 50mm Summicron $500-$700. A Tri-Elmar would be cool if your not overly concerned with the miniscule differnces between it and the fixed lenses. But plan on spending a bit more, like over $1500. Not the cheapest by any means but I'd wager on it's reliability. I can't imagine being bummed out that I only brought this combo because that's what I take EVERYWHERE!! I would completely rule out any digital except for snap shots and here's why. When I travel I can easily shoot 2-4 rolls of film a day. A 2 weeker vacation could yeild 50 36 exposure rolls or 1800 high quality negatives. That would be 50 to 100 CF cards at $50 each ( depends on size of course) plus a computer if I want to edit in which case I could take less. But still film gives me the option of shooting like crazy for pennies a shot and making them all quality 11x14 prints and even scanning if that's my preference. If you have a Leica that works you can safely assume it will continue to perform the same for some time. meter may fail but the rest is mechanical and built like a tank. The best still shoot film, Salgado, Gibson etc... I shoot Tri-X. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n1664876959 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I'm with all of the above posts that advise not taking a rangefinder on the trip. Take something you know will give you reliable results. When you come back, get yourself a cheap rangfinder like a Canonet QL17 or something and see if you like using it - because you may not. If you come from an SLR background, it takes quite a while to get used to the rangefinder way of thinking - you will find that you have to persevere with it until you are comfortable. BTW, the Canonet is a "renowned" camera, so you are all set there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 <i>That would be 50 to 100 CF cards at $50 each ( depends on size of course) plus a computer if I want to edit </i><p> Only a loony toon would do this. This is why there are image bank type products, plus in Europe it's easy to find internet cafes where you can burn CDs from your cards. And bringing a computer to edit might be a good idea, but it's certainly no more necessary than bringing a darkroom with you. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khiem_nguyen1 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 leica R4S , elmarit 35mm f2.8 .type II-III lense , mezt 32ct4 , all of these should not cost you more than $600.00, that what I brougt g when I was in Europe in 1999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren_allen1 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 "That would be 50 to 100 CF cards at $50 each ( depends on size of course) plus a computer if I want to edit Only a loony toon would do this. This is why there are image bank type products, plus in Europe it's easy to find internet cafes where you can burn CDs from your cards. And bringing a computer to edit might be a good idea, but it's certainly no more necessary than bringing a darkroom with you." So you suggest bringing say 2-3 gigs worth of cards and finding cafes to burn off of those. Might be an option but once again I'll have a small bag of film with higher quality and more versital media. Your digital outfit will weigh you down more than an M6 and I'll get better negs hands down. I've accidently dumped cards or had other digital failures. I've had cards go bad and camera develope glitches, hot pixels etc...Also the beauty of digital is a more immeadiate enjoyment of images. I wouldn't travel without some way to play with the images each evening so figure $2000 for a Powerbook to the budget. I must say witth all due respect I don't undersatnd the opinons of an slr being more reliable. I've always found the opposite to be true especially when figuring in all the bells and whistles. Most rely heavily on batteries and are useless if you drop or get wet. Maybe an F3 but to suggest anything has the proven track record of a Leica M series camera is folly. Ask Salgado, BTW Leica forum folks. I imagine the guy want's Leica advice not what's your favorite camera. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h._p. Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Well, everyone's going to tell you what THEY'D take so I won't be any different. Either my Leica M3 with the 50mm Summicron and the 90mm Elmar stuffed in a pocket OR my Canon Eos 5 with a 28~105 zoom. Either one will take superb pictures and the choice is between something very simple and unassuming (the Leica) or something altogether more flexible but with a damned sight more 'presence' (the Canon). A beaten up Leica lika mine (sorry, couldn't resist) is about the cheapest you can get. Budget £700 in the UK for body and 50mm, another £150 for the 90mm. I did once go on holiday with a single camera and lens. I took a Hasselblad with an 80mm lens with me to Austria and got superb shots (well I thought so <grin>) because I had absolutely no choices to make. See subject, look through viewfinder, move forwards or back, release shutter. Come to think of it, I'll promote a Hassie 500c/m as another option for you to think about.....<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wind.dk Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 "This is why there are image bank type products, plus in Europe it's easy to find internet cafes where you can burn CDs from your cards." Where? Please tell me where? I live in "Europe", so this information could become very useful to me. My personal take on this, from my existing equipment I'd take a FM3a with 50/1.4 and if buying on a "money no object" basis, I guess it would be an M6 Classic or MP with 35/2 or 35/1.4. Of course in reality, I would not consider bringing less than two lenses on any kind of extended trip, at least not until I get some good medium format equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul hart Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 You say you want a Leica and you 'like something wide'. Then it must be an M6 with a 35/2 Summicron, full stop, end of story. M6 because I think you will want a built in meter. 35mm because you want one lens that is good for most situations and errs on the wide side. Summicron because it's compact, whether you get the latest ASPH or an earlier version. That's it. Dead simple. Be careful with eBay. If you're not an experienced eBayer, take a lot of advice and/or care. A good local dealer is a lot safer. Tell us where you live and someone round here will point you in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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