GerrySiegel Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 PS. I am not sure that it has been established that the E-1 has "lousy resolution." Nor that professionals shun the camera. I will concede that the camera has not had the best press on the digital review sites. But it is not panned,just not given a lot of enthusiasm for the image quality against comparables. That in itself is not conclusive. I look to user evaluations like this as much as anything. And the firmware upgrade thing is fine with me. As long at it works. So waiting a little while is also a good strategy with a new product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kissane Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Ray, the ALL reference was to all OM users who were left holding the bag. As one other contributor referenced the OM series had a good run. Well that's my point. We were still running while Oly quit. I luv all makers, to each his own. Just trying to point out some past facts that people can use. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kissane Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Some more thoughts. I still use the OM's, lend them to the family etc. They are great. I also bought the E-10 for my entry into digital. But, frankly will not jump into the E-1 at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad_beck1 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 John Kissane wrote: "We were still running while Oly quit." The OM users would have needed to support Olympus by buying _new_ OM equipment in sufficient quantities. Olympus has made no money from the used market purchases indicating that the market was/is well saturated. From some anecdotal serial numbers, I estimate that in the 1998 to 2002 5-year period, less than a total of 12,000 OM-4Ti's have been produced and marketed (sold?) _worldwide_, i.e. 200 units/month (and the OM-3Ti has probably a total production run for the 1994 to 2002 9-year period of 5000 samples). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kissane Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Konrad, I do not dispute your figures, just the logic. There was no reason to continue buying. While the rest of the SLR community contiued advances and innovation Olympus did not. That why you can't blame it on lack of sales. And as far as I remember it was, in fact, a basic decision by Olympus BEFORE you sales statistics. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_johnson3 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Hi John, I thought that surely Konrad's blaming of the customer for poor OM system sales was tongue-in-cheek. I don't think there's much of a market for new cameras with 70's and 80's technology at exorbitant prices and most of that market probably goes to Leica and Hasselblad anyway. Later, Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 This gets to be interesting. Ray Hull, you properly post this in the Olympus Forum which,I submit has become really a de facto Olympus OM user forum....85%anyway... I follow the PN Canon FD forum and I rarely see anyone getting annoyed much lately at Canon for changing its lens mount in 1986. Generational shift I think. Has to happen. And shortly after 1996 Canon stopped servicing all of its FD cameras and lenses with the sole exception of the pro F-1N,bad news for some,but not fatal. Parts availability became catch as catch can,but a cottage industry thrives. Canon never was exculpated by generational change but it softened. The cameras still work,and work well. (eBay makes everything available to all,even parts for Model A Fords,right?) Some of us still use FD cameras,love them,and feel no need for autofocus. I believe that Olympus, a small fry compared to Canon, has not committed any sin that would lead me to expect them to not support the new E-1 standard. But I won't bet a colonoscopic exam with an Oly scope that we wont get the shaft. Flexible shaft that is:-) Meanwhile, the four thirds website shows enough happy camper work,to keep me interested. I can wait,and use the C 5050 and my other gear for a few more months. Let some other people like you Ray be the path breakers. And thanks for the Lewis and Clark job of y'all. PS To Nathan Hahn: If you are stationed anywhere near Pearl Harbor,let me know as I live in Central Oahu. I would like to talk to you face to face about your E-1 experiences if possible. Aloha,Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan_hahn Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Gerry, I'm a Submariner and I do happen to work on Pearl Harbor. In fact, I live in Navy housing near the airport. I'd be glad to talk to you some time, send me an email:HahnLabs@hawaii.rr.com Aloha, Nathan Hahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luxborealis Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Once again, it appears there are a lot of nit-pickers who have not really tried the E-1 but pass comment about everything they know (or don't know) about it. According to posts on every forum on the 'net, anyone who has actually tried an E-1 is instantly smitten with its quality. Those who have actually used it and compared the images with anything in the same price range as Canon or Nikon are sure to purchase the camera. It's image quality is hands-down superior right out of the camera: lenses, white balance, colour, dynamic range. The "smaller" sensor is only 7% smaller than the 6MP, but the image quality is significantly better and is obvious to everyone who has actually done a real comparison - not the bench comparison like on the review sites. The number of Canon & Nikon DSLR users that have switched to the E-1 is astounding for a variety of reasons which boil down to image quality, build quality and lens quality. As well, anyone who does any wide-angle photography instantly recognises the Digital-Zuiko lenses are superior in sharpness and lack of distortion compared to any of the current Canon and Nikon lenses and the Zuiko lenses are lower in cost (since they are the equivalent of the "pro" glass from Canon & Nikon) and are 1/2 to 1/3 the weight. Again, anyone who has done an in-hand comparison would recognise this right off the top. Take a read of this link which summarises the differences between DSLRs at the same price point: http://homepage.mac.com/luxborealis/words/whye1.html. Before you buy a DSLR, get an E-1 in your hands and the photos on your computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Good points by Terry McDonald. Your opinion is motivating. Get hands on one to shoot is not likely until they become a rental item, and that is the vicious circle of new system products. So it is an article of faith for those of us who have no experience with the Olympus OM system.(But admire the C series products a whole lot) On that subject,maybe I can induce you to post a few samples in this thread,largish within the management's limits for links if possible. (I have mysterious trouble with your web page on my Netscape browser.) With Netscape, I follow a different drummer,but I got used to it.Anyway, Your decision checklist makes a lot of sense to this prospective buyer. One body and one zoom for this kid can serve for what is a not so wicked price vis a vis the competition. GS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kissane Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Terry said "Once again, it appears there are a lot of nit-pickers who have not really tried the E-1 but pass comment about everything they know (or don't know) about it. Terry can you point me to one nit-picker who has critized the E-1 (repeat the E-1 not Olympus) who has not used it. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_watters1 Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I got to hold an E-1 today at a local camera shop and my initial impression was BIG. Compared to my OM4T the E-1 seemed huge. This is the same feeling I got when handling Canon's 10D. I did not experience the size difference I expected. Is the E-1 really significantly smaller than its competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 What system camera *doesn't* seem big next to an OM-series camera, Tim? Other than a Leica rangefinder? ;> Even my C-3040Z P&S digicam seems bulky compared with my OM-1 because of the palm swell grip that houses four AA batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 John,John, good fellow,you must be kidding or being half serious. It is damn with faint praise thing by observers who read the dpreview et al gurus. When I first brought up the E-1 months and months ago I was blasted verbally by a mr double dot Z personage for even contemplating buying a new untried E-1 system with a small allegedly fatally "noisy" sensor and-let's recall-ah yes, "no installed user base of people" meaning not a Canon and not a Nikon. More recently, Eric Friedemann,a really nice guy,called the Olympus E-1 system still absurdly and obscenely overpriced and wanting in comparison to the competition. The E-1 has been dismissed regularly in any discussion of the top digital cameras. A grudging nod to its dust remover is sometimes slipped in to comments. The lenses get barely a nod of approval,and the claims about digital ray path are routinely poo pooed vis a vis Canon lens compatibility with its CMOS sensors. The affiliation with Kodak is almost a guilt by association from what I read..I have lost count,because they planted a doubt in my liberal mind,even.. Bob Atkins said a review of camera on PhotoNet was forthcoming and that was 4 months ago. Noone volunteered. Seriously, we got reviews of all kinds of lesser offerings from HP and Kodak and whatall,and the E-1 is like the black sheep at the family reunion at times,just at times,new kid on the block,but not so new anymore. It may be that the failure of Olympus's partners in crime to get on the wagon,but there is something close to prejudice on photonet about anything non Canon,non Nikon,or not Leica. I could be wrong of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzeanah Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 It could be that no-one who has an E-1 has volunteered to review it. Send me one for a month and I'll promise to shoot 10,000 frames and post a thorough review (from a rangefinder lover's perspective, of course). My guess is if you wrote it Brian would publish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCULUS New York Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 Gerry and Terry, Ya know, I ride a Moto Guzzi, and while many don't know what that is, take my word for it, it's a decent bike; I call it a BMW with garlic. Anyway the point of my story is I finally gave up on the Guzzi Owners Club, because all those guys wanted to talk about was their Ambassadors and California Police bikes that hadn't been made in 20 years. <P>My bottom line is: I know what I bought, I know why I liked it, I know the history too, but am not interested in reliving it, much less having some guy riding 20 year old machinery tell me how good mine could be if they'd only stuck with points and condensors.... <P>I can take it for only so long; then I go away. Doesn't really matter to me. I just try to be helpful with first-hand observations to anyone who is AFFIRMATIVELY interested. All the rest can stay in the weeds. <P>Cheers, Ray <P> <img src=http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/2541612-md.jpg> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Incidentally Ray, was interested in your remark about "get an outfit for about $1700.00 minus rebate from several online authorized dealers." Really? I polled the usual dealer suspects and the kit with the 14-54 comes to $1950.00 plus S and H from B and H and J and R and one other. Which interests me as prospective purchaser,(soon I think, not this month as I pay off big buck trip to National Stereoscopic Association Convention. Other photo passion.) The Nikon cabal,bless them, may be like the debunkers of your bike. Olympus system users may well be a cultivated minority for a while. Wasnt the OM bunch such? Anyway,good thread started, Occulus. The company and the system have much going. And may be ahead of the pack in engineering concept and execution from what I have tried at the NEX counter including a shot or two with my CF card.Good feel,solid,excellent skin tones. Lens sparkles,lighter than expected.What you said above. No user-group could dissuade but might persuade. Cheers and salutations,Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I found this interactive demo on the European Pro site gateway. It allows a full marvelously conceived demo of the camera in virtual display. Just wonderful. Here it is:http://www.olympus-pro.com/index.eu.en.html (Sorry no blue link today,but I am having paragraph trouble when I type in HTML on Netscape browser and can't figure out my problem so far)... Aloha once more,GS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ky2 Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Gerry-- Im eyeing that blacksheep, you already know that ;) Anyway, Cameta Camera (cametacamera.com) has the kit listed for $1599 (-$50 rebate); or $2450 with the 50-200, 14-54 lenses (-$150 rebate) How's that for a deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayt Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Gerry: B&H has the E1 kit with 14-54 lense for $1799.00 and S&H should not be much more than $20.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Raymond, why did you have to tell me that!!!. Auwe, and oy,now I am probably going to have to raid my credit union account. I want one for sure. Another price reduction so soon is odd though. And no indication that an E-1n model is soon to be announced. Hmm,I know I am a born skeptic. Yet the price of art is more than paintbrushes and canvas in this tech world. This is killing my forbearance in money management. That is a drop of about 4 to 5 bills from intro of the E-1 system just 8 months ago. Yet,its reaallll tempting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 (Aside note to you Ray, shipping to our fair state is rarely ever just 20.00 from the private carriers. You see offers that say FREE shipping on big orders,and then ant size type that adds " to 48 contiguous states only." Thirty bucks maybe,which is not bad when you think about all that water :-)). Oh gosh,another feast of decisions today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Another postscript to my comment about waiting for the next issue of this camera,which,noone doubts is inevitable. My philosophy on this. None of you are old enough to recall the introdction of the Canon F-1 original in 1970. I was there. And I bought one,original,in 1971 with its kit 50mm 1.4 lens. Canon introduced a bunch of yummi system accessories,all well thought out. Bob Reynolds,my Nikon partner in crime laughed at me,since Nikon had the only really serious system camera used by pros in our country. Recall,that Nikon FTN was a detachable top and bottom machine,motor,prism, the works. Canon,much larger than Nikon,had stayed low key in SLRs. For some time they were all distrubed by Bell and Howell. And then Flash,Zam,out comes the F-1. So I buy it and enjoy 20 years of reliable camera. And only a tiny crack in the skylight illuminator window to call a QC defect (A Nikon salesman said " Looks like you just got a lemon.".Hah. It's a game. My conclusion is like Terry's. 1) If one loves the feel of a camera and its lenses,then one will use it. 2) If one respects the commitment and bona fides of the company, you can count on support. If I believed Olympus was going back to medical endoscopes and leave cameras then I would hesitate. Today,after consultation with my Chief of Naval Operations at home I think I have to order a kit. (Damn the torpedoes,I am going to the Head :-).) And by the way, Olympus has crafted its C series so that I have little to quibble about with SHQ JPEGS for MY usage. This is a teeny weeny crop from my Olympus C5050, one tough built little good selling machine,honed from earlier C models,fine lens etc,just not an SLR. Chunky,but very nice for screwing with in the Portland terminal boarding area.So to Yaron et al, Be well,prune juice and vodka daily,aloha, Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Someone said that the 5 megapixel digital cameras give embarassingly good results. I am still delighted with some very small crops of SHQ JPEG on a COSTCO cheap SanDisk 256 CF. As to add on software,there is where we need this kind of thread to tip off the digital ins and outs. All is fair if the final image is what you seek,methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerrySiegel Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 This and the other related thread,the MyFourThirds web site, Oly Euro interactive demo (brilliant piece of advert),charged me up to a decision and did the job,with the price cut, of selling me my first digital autofocus SLR. Jokester in the family likened spending even tht on a camera = "like shoving your member into a pencil sharpener." Not quite.:-) Actually, with on-line ordering its TOO bloody easy. Will return with observations, after two weeks post delivery next week. Re shipping comment: B and H air shipping comes to 53.00,and(little known) delivery is 3 days for the "2 day" mode to here. As we like to say- paradise is always a little costlier. Nathan knows,wink,wink. Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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