coolpix 4500 vs. D70 - worth the upgrade?

[reed1]

Currently I have a Coolpix 4500 and have been looking at the D70 as a

possible upgrade. However, lately I've been shooting and

handprinting color 35 mm and have gotten spoiled. So, my quandary

is how to best invest my money. Should I upgrade to a better

digicam like the D70 or invest in a good film scanner? Is the

difference between the 4500 and the D70 enough to merit having both?

 

I'm especially interested because I have been printing larger sizes -

11x14 and 16x20. Will the D70 hold up noticeably better than the

4500? I know it's not just about how many megapixels anymore...also

qualitative differences in sensors, software...

 

Thoughts?

 

 

thanks much!

 

m.

[vivek iyer]

If you are hand printing color 35mm, I would say forget about a digital upgrade. Without going in to the quality of one versus the other;

Wouldn't it be hard to leave all the printing/enlargement to an inkjet

printer?

 

I have not yet gotten any large sized prints from my D-70 yet. But the small test prints from small sized (100 Kb) images are very encouraging.

[reed1]

ahh, i forgot to explain that part - since classes are out for the summer, i have no facilities. ack. so - digital it is, one way or the other. can't afford $60 enlargements from the lab for very long...

[michael erlich]

The differences between point-and-shoots like the 4500 and any DSLR are like night

and day.

 

First, speed of operation. P&Ss take a significant amount of time to start up, to focus

and to actually take the picture. Plus there is a delay in taking the next shot. A DSLR

is ON from the moment you turn it on, and when you press the button, the shot is

immediate. The D70 especially has a huge buffer and can hold many shots taken in

rapid succession.

 

Second, sensor size. I don't mean megapixels. The sensor on a P&S, even on the

8700, is tiny compared with the sensor on a DSLR. Larger sensor pixels can collect

more light, and at higher ISO's there is far less digital noise with the larger sensor.

Noise on the D70 or D100 at ISO 800 is barely noticeable, at 800 on a P&S (if it even

has that speed available) the noise makes the image barely useable. The D70 has

speeds up to 1600, the D100 up to 6400 equivalent (but that gets pretty noisy).

Shooting in low light with a P&S is an exercise in frustration.

 

Third, flash. The new iTTL mode in the D70 with either the popup flash or with the

SB800 is by far the best flash exposure system so far. And the D70 has a flash synch

shutter speed up to 1/500 (!) making fill-flash outdoors a pleasure instead of a pain.

 

Point-and-shoot digitals are fine for what they do, but for speed, ease of use,

versatility and image quality go with the D70.

[walterh]

"m" - here is what i do:

 

leave "wide" wide angle with lots of details like landscape for film - everything else for D70 and an array of lenses - with a long list of exceptions - :-)

 

speed has been mentioned above- for me that is exception number one if more than 1fps is speed, or if AF is speed or fast MF is speed .... etc.

 

low light focussing or any MF under anything less than optimal conditions is exception number two.

 

a bit simplified but a good point to start- but then again - there are a million ways to take pictures. and of course it depends of what kind of film body you compare your D70 to :-) the D70 is a moderate body compared to the best pro bodies like F5 , F100, F3 F2... . a comparison with an 4500 is not really fair.

 

cheers

walter

[aardvarko]

buy a $150 Coolscan III LS-30 on eBay to scan your old work and a D70 to make new work. had both the 995 and the 4500 before the D70, and there's no comparison - but I shoot a fair amount of action that requires extreme responsiveness, and you may not.

[andreatau]

Hello m.

 

Maybe these two examples can help: both were obtained by cropping a small piece of original JPG file at full resolution and magnification 100%, the first from coolpix 4500, the second from D70. To let your attention focus on the noise issue, I chose two similar images. No enhancement were applied. So here is the 4500's shot...<div></div>

[andreatau]

And here is the D70's performance..<div></div>

[andreatau]

Forgot to say this: of course if I had posted two un-cropped pictures both RESIZED to 510 pixels maximum lenght as required by PN, you would hardly see any difference.

[reed1]

wow - great feedback everyone. thanks for your thoughts so far.

 

a few things:

 

speed - that is something that is really important to me, and something that drives me nuts about the 4500. i do quite a bit of street shooting and would like to shoot more people but it is totally impossible. the shutter lag feels like 5 minutes and the auto focus goes nuts and won't shoot. so, having a useable manual focus feature would be fantastic.

 

sensor size - i've been hung up on megapixels because i'm still not quite clear on the difference b/w pixels and sensor size. but it seems like the 6 megapixels may be better than 8 if your sensor is better? is that right?

 

i know it's not fair to compare the 4500 with the D70 - sort of like comparing a volvo with a camaro - so what i'm trying to decide, is whether the D70 is enough of an improvement, or if i should keep waiting and stick with my 4500...the ultimate question in digital photo right now, i know. ack.

 

the example that posted by andrea was super helpful. what a difference!

 

the problems i need to solve with my 4500 are:

 

- shutter lag

 

- murky pictures and noise; loss of detail; flat flat flat

 

- slow processing of each image as you shoot (on tiff mode, it take a full 20-25 seconds to process. lots of whistling and standing around...)

 

- useable manual focus. i miss focusing the lens ON the lens! i also miss aperture rings. but hey.

 

amateur question about D70 - can you put old lenses that have focus rings on the camera and turn autofocus off?

 

thanks everyone!

 

m.

[michael erlich]

m.-

 

In terms of absolute resolution, 8 mp is better than 6 mp, obviously. But the 6 mp

sensor on the D70 is capable of images that look as good enlarged as an 8 mp P&S,

even better in less-than-perfect conditions. The size of the pixel in the sensor makes

a big difference.

 

Manual focus lenses can be used on the D70, but unless they have a CPU (as in AI-P

lenses, or lenses that have been "chipped,") they will not work with the camera's light

meter. This is not a big problem with a DSLR- you can always use a separate meter or

use trial-and-error and check the histogram.

 

As previously stated, one of the biggest advantages of the D70 or other DSLR is

speed. Instant on, fast AF (practically instant with AFS lenses,) and immediate shutter

response. If you've been struggling with a P&S speed alone is worth the upgrade.

 

If you decide you need a D70 now, go for it. If you wait for better technology or lower

prices you'll miss the many great shots you could be making now. It's a great camera

and a great bargain.

[hamming_lau]

In fact, the syn time for flash in 4500 is 1/2000.

When I use the flash with 4500, it is great.

When I use high ISO to take photos, I can't accept NOW.

Using manual focusing of 4500 and flash, it is great to take many good photos of my son.

The 0.5" timelag of 4500 is acceptable.

 

However, DSLR is different from DC!

Go to buy it and enjoy it.

[aardvarko]

the 4500 is 4MP, not 8MP.

[reed1]

right - the 4500 is 4mp. but the coolpix 8700 is 8mp and is about the same price as the 6mp D70. so, the question is, why would you want a camera that has fewer megapixels? one answer: interchangeable lenses. but besides that, is there a reason that relates to the quality of the sensor?

 

in other words, if they can make a DSLR, and they can make an 8mp camera, shouldn't i wait for the 8mp DSLR?

 

hmm.

 

m.

[robert_friedlander]

"in other words, if they can make a DSLR, and they can make an 8mp camera, shouldn't i wait for the 8mp DSLR? "

 

 

A 8 m.p. D-SRL is going to cost you far more than the 1000 bucks for the 8700. Its all about senor and material quality and the DSLR uses far more $$ parts. I had (Still do) a Coolpix 5000 and upgraded to a D100 and have been very happy. The D100 only has 1.3 m.p. worth of resolution, but the differance is very dramtic.

The compression of the 8700 sensor is huge compared to that of the d70s. The D70 may offer a smaller picture but its of higher quality.

 

Robert

[reed1]

gotcha - thanks for your answer.

 

i know an 8mp DSLR is still a heck of a lot more expensive, but i have the fear of obsolescence that i think we all have to some extent. when i bought my 4500 a year and a half ago, there weren't any DSLRs on the market that were in my price range. things change so fast...i feel like an affordable 8mp DSLR is on the horizon...do you think so? anyone know?

 

but, then again you can't really worry too much about that. it sounds like the D70 is a great camera and the advantages besides megapixels are really attractive - i.e. speed and interchangeable lenses.

[chrislong]

When I first started considering the D70 I felt the same way as you, that a new better one would be coming eventually and maybe I sould wait for that. Of course, once the 8mp $1000 DSLR body comes out, then you'll start thinking maybe you should wait for the 10mp version which of course will be coming out a little while later. It's a never ending cycle if you plan on waiting for the next best thing, there will always be something better coming along eventually if you wait, but you'll be missing a lot of photo ops while your sitting there waiting. I remember when DSLR's first started to come down in price (from the $4000+ they once cost) and I always told myself that once a well featured body came out with 5+mp I would jump on it. Well, the D70 is that camera and I have. Picked mine up earlier this week and so far I love it. Havn't had too much chance to shoot with it yet (work always gets in the way) but I've been amazed at how fast and easy to use it is. You should get one and just start making some images.

[reed1]

yup i think you're right. the technology game is a tricky one. the basic question is, what is good enough?

 

hopefully i'm going to get to try a D70 this week at a local store...i think maybe that's the trick.