Looking for a AF medium format camera

[adrian_nichols]

Hey all, for the last year I have been shooting both a mamiya c220,

and a mamiya m645, both cameras I love, but I generally shoot the

m645. Im looking for suggestions on a 645 camera with auto focus, I

do a lot of shooting in low light, and even with the magnifier some

of my favorite shots are a tad out of focus. Of course $ is an

issue :), I will probablly have to sell off both of my present

cameras, but I think it would be worth it. Any suggestions would be

appreciated, so far I have looked at the mamyias, pentax, and fuji,

but not really sure which ones are worth looking into, I think I

would like to stick to mamiya, other than the focus issue in low

light, which is the fault of my eyes and not the camera, its been an

awesome camera. Thanks, Adrian

[chris_henry1]

If you want an SLR, there are basically five systems: Contax 645 AF, Mamiya 645 AFD,

Pentax 645 AF, Hasselblad H1 (OK, Fuji) and Rollei 6008AF.

 

Three have USM-type AF drives: Contax, Hasselblad and Rollei.

 

Pentax does not have a removable back; maybe a problem if you want to buy or rent a

digital back.

 

Rollei offers either 6x6 or 645 options.

 

Contax allows use of MF Hasselblad Zeiss lenses with an adapter.

 

Hasselblad probably offers the fewest used lens purchase opportunities as the system

is new; Rollei can use all of the older non-autofocus Rollei-mount Carl Zeiss and

Schneider lenses while still giving focus confirmation.

 

Rollei and Hasselblad offer lens-shutters.

 

Rollei and Contax each offer at least one f2 lens in their line.

[jesse_kramer]

I love my pentax 645 NII. I shoot chromes only so I do not need mid roll changes. I have the 35mm, 120mm Macro, 80-160mm

 

I plan on the 400mm next.

 

Very good design features, good price point.

 

Jesse Kramer

[hendrik]

Hi,

 

The system should be able to handle digital, have great optics and be reliable..............

 

Only 3 systems come close to that description:

 

Fujiblad

 

Mamiya

 

Contax

 

Rent them, then decide.

 

Regards

[gary_ferguson1]

If your emphasis is on fast auto focusing then you've only three options. Mamiya, Hasselblad, and Pentax.

 

The Rollei and the Contax (which I use) are fine cameras, but neither is particularly fast at auto focusing. There's strong rumours that a Contax 645II will be announced in early 2004 so the situation may change then.

[fotografz]

Here are some considerations to add to the above post ( three 645 AF choices that can

be used with digital backs):

 

Auto Focus:

 

The Contax, being the first AF 645 of the three, is the oldest design. Mamiya

supposedly improved AF speed over the Contax by including a focus assist light.

Hasselblad H1, being the latest design, supposedly offers the fastest AF of the three. I

can confirm that the H1 is substantially quicker than the Contax, especially in lower

light ( I own the Contax, and have tested the H1). So, if AF speed is the primary

consideration it's the H1 for now.

 

Glass:

 

Subjective decision. I prefer the Zeiss signature and wider available apertures

compared to the other 2, but all 3 choices offer sharp results. There has been much

discussion concerning Fuji making the H1 and lenses instead of Zeiss (thus the

Fujiblad moniker). The chief concern has to do with the out of focus areas (bokeh).

Mamiya makes the broadest selection and the most zooms. The H1 line up has

improved recently with the introduction of 2 new lenses.

 

Digital:

 

To me, a 645 system means portability. The most portable digital back for these

cameras is the Kodak DCS 645 offering. But be warned that if you invest in a 645

Kodak back for a specific system, it is not interchangeable with a different system. My

Kodak 645C will not work on an H1 for example.

 

Differences to take into consideration:

 

The H1 uses leaf shutters in lens with a top shutter speed of 1/800th. Thus flash can

be synced at any speed up to and including 1/800th. The Contax and Mamiya sync at

up to 1/125th, but offer a top shutter speed of 1/4000th. So in brighter available

light you are forced to stop down the H1 lenses, where you do not with the other 2.

Which better suits your needs is up to you.

 

Cost.

 

The H1 system is a bank account buster IMO. Contax is also pretty expensive, but

because it has been around the longest, offers many opportunities in the used

market. You know the price point for Mamiya items.

 

Were it me now, and I hadn't already sunk a fortune into the Contax 645 system along

with its' dedicated Kodak 645C digital back? I'd go with the H1. The use of 645

format has been reduced in my work when I included a Canon 1Ds into the mix. For

what I use a 645 now, AF speed and the 1/800th sync speed would overshadow the

concern about bokeh, etc.

 

Hope this helps a little.

[peter_weimann1]

Please let me correct one statement of a previous posting: the Contax lenses do NOT have USM. They use a coreless DC Motor. Best you rent first and make the decision based on your own experience. I chose the Pentax 645NII with a bunch of AF lenses and I am really happy with it. The AF is dead on even on high action shots like horse riding fighting knights as you can see on my website:

 

http://home.fotocommunity.de/weimann/

 

With the latest addition of the 150-300mm zoom lens for me the P645 is the perfect companion for my style of photography. And the discussion about a digital back will end this year. Just wait a little. One more point is battery consumption. I shoot around 250 rolls of 120 film with one set of 6 AA lithium batteries. Ask the Contax owners how far they come with a battery: 10, maybe 20 rolls?

Hope this helps

 

Best

 

Peter

[alan_patil]

>Please let me correct one statement of a previous posting: the Contax lenses do NOT have USM. They use a coreless DC Motor

 

Maybe you should tell Zeiss, they have been under the impression that all the lenses bar the macro used ultrasonic motors. See the zeiss.de site.

 

Alan

[peter_weimann1]

Hi Alan, that was what I did. More than a year ago I informed them about their mistake. They corrected the website. They now write plain Autofokus-Motor and no more USM. You should look at the page for the 645 lenses. Those for the 35mm system do indeed have USM. Hope this helps.

Greetings

Peter

[david_holland1]

I bought a Pentax 645N when they first came out. I have the 45, 75, 150 & 200 lenses, all autofocus.

 

In general, I have been delighted with it.

 

Here are some random specific comments:

 

I don't use the autofocus much, but when I have it's been a life saver. I shot an 11 year old girl on rollerblades at full speed with the 200. I could barely keep her in the frame, but the servo autofocus worked perfectly.

 

There are two leaf shutter lenses available, but they are "auto nothing."

 

I rarely use it in the studio or on a tripod. But I have, with more than satisfactory results.

 

The Pentax dedicated TTL flashes don't have provision to adjust daylight fill flash to underexpose compared to ambient--a bummer--better to forget Pentax brand TTL, and shoot an auto unit with its own sensor.

 

I wouldn't get the 200/4 again--not that I don't like it, but it's too close to the 150/2.8, which is larger but faster and a little easier to focus manually. At the time I got the 200, there were no other autofocus portrait lenses available. But with the market for used medium format what it is, I don't feel like selling it.

 

The ergonomics are, at least to me, just about perfect, with one major exception: The exposure lock button just isn't easy to get to for me. I always used my Nikon F3 on "A" to let the camera set the shutter speed. That way I could select my aperture, meter the scene, and if I wanted to adjust the exposure, simply move the camera until I got the shutter speed I wanted, lock it, recompose, focus, and shoot. Amazingly fast. I virtually never needed to move speed dial to use a manual setting. With the Pentax, the shutter release locks the auto focus, but of course does nothing if you are shooting in manual focus mode. I wish the shutter relase locked the exposure instead, or at least gave me a choice.

 

Which brings up another point: the exposure confimation light works even if you are using an older manual focus lens. Except for subjects on roller blades, I leave my lenses in manual, focus where I want using the confirmation light, and then just recompose. It seems as easy to me as auto focus, and it keeps me from pointing and shooting. The point is, if you're on a tight budget, you can solve your focus problem with the N or NII bodies, even though you decide to pick up some manual focus lenses at bargain prices (I also have the 150/3.5--much smaller and lighter than the 150/2.8--with a built in lens hood; it's a great lens and they're going for a song, off key at that.

 

The mirror is very well damped, which is another plus for hand held use.

 

By the way, the Pentax, not the Contax, was the first autofocus 645. I probably would have bought the Contax if it had come out first. The 80/2 for the Contax is the only lens with a speed advantage in a focal length I use. It certainly isn't a big enough deal for me to scrap the Pentax.

 

I don't have any experience with the other 645s in the list, so I can't help with a comparison. If you feel comfortable staying with the Mamiya, that's what I'd do if I were you. I suspect that most of what I like about the Pentax works just about the same with the Mamiya.

[keith_merrill]

I use the pentax 645 NII body with four lenses, one of which is a zoom lens. This setup has for the most part made my 35mm set up fairly redundant. I find the autofocus is very fast, for a medium format camera. I have used mamiya in the past and liked it, except for the prices of the lenses, (this is where the pentax is the clear winner) but in the end the pentax camera just felt better in the hands. I find I can preload 4 film inserts and put a 5th one in the camera, put three lenses in the bag and walk all day with it. I shoot it exactly the same what I shoot a 35mm camera. Truly, the only problems I have with it is the 1/60th flash sync speed (unless I am using one of the leaf shutter lenses which will go to 1/500th) and the motor drive noise (not all that much of a problem). The camera also has a diopter adjustment for the view finder and it is brighter and clearer than many of the 35mm cameras I have used. Manual focusing the autofocus lenses is also very well dampened.

 

 

In deciding which system, and since money is an issue, I think you should check out the cost of the accessories for each of the systems, especially film backs or inserts. Pentax inserts can be had new for $150 and used for $75 or less. Film backs are more expensive.

 

 

Since by your question you haven't brought up digital needs I don't see why you should base your decision on which cameras can take digital backs today. If money is a consideration, you can put together a very good, inexpensive package using pentax 645 gear. No, it doesn't have a current digital back today, but to think that pentax won't come up with some sort of digital offering for the 645 series is a bit limited. I can really see pentax offering either a digital insert or a camera body that accepts 645 lenses in the future.

[adrian_nichols]

Hi all, thanks so much for all the responses. At this time im looking for a film camera, Im not really concerned about a digital back, I dont shoot digital, at least not for school where we are expected to develop film, and print using a chemical method. I would love to get a good dig camera, but thats later on down the road. Believe me I thought about a blad or mamiya film/dig camera, until I saw the price ;)I will look into the mamiya and pentax AF systems. Basically Im looking for a camera that offers exactly what my m645 has, with the addition of auto focus, that I can afford of course, im thinking I will be able to spend around $500. I would like to get a camera that is a bit more compact than the m645, I dont do a lot of street, but when I do its no fun carrying the mamiya around, and even less fun when setting up for a shot, very hard to catch any action, but for now I make do. There are no real photo shops in my area that I can rent a camera from, or stop in to see whats on the market, and when a used MF AF SLR does come around its usually double the price I can find it online for, so I have to rely on the web for research and photographers like yourselfs to get an idea of what is worth looking into. Thanks again, Adrian

[adrian_nichols]

P.S. does anyone have any experience with cameras such as the mamiya 7? I think fuji also makes a retangular 645, do they have auto focus? Are they any good? Thanks, Adrian

[kc4fox]

I traded in my Mamiya 7 for the 645AF kit from MPEX. I've already got Medium Format

rangefinders, so the 7 was superflous. I'm not sad that I did.

 

First, the 80 is a stop faster.

Second is that I can read the viewfinder information (takes an irritating second or two

on the M-7 to find it in the finder- and this is after 40 rolls of film)

Third is that I can take full face portraits without bothering to crop (lenses focus

closely enough).

 

&c.

 

The best bit is that I bought it for the Autofocus, and that part works. I can't reliably

focus an SLR (quite unlike a rangefinder!) so this was quite a boon to me.

 

The 7's lenses are awesome. I just prefer other limitations on my systems.