zoom lens + flash + gary fong difuser or still better prime lense+flash+difuser?

Hi again,

 

I'm back with my questions...sorry

 

Few months ago, i asked if f2.8 was enough "faster and lighty" to don't be able to buy faster prime lenses than

that, for al lall outdoor shots, even when the weather is cloudy, and people answered me that yes.

 

For wedding photography, the ideal wil lbe to have large zoom lenses with high aperture (f2 at least) but we know

that it's not tommorow we wil lsee that. to do'nt have to buy lots of prime lenses.

 

Im about to buy prime lense, for hard situation in churchs, or if the wedding happen the night etc. to be able to

don't use that much (or the less that is possible) the speedlite flash because it makes pictures looks very ugly

and not natural....but i just discovered something called gary fong lightsphere 2, it's a difuser you put on the

flash speedlite...and i was impressed about how the picture look with that, when they are taken in hard light

conditions...

so i was wondering if it was necesary to buy prime lenses (for me it's only prime lenses or only zoom lense)

knowing that at f2.8 is enough opened for any day outdoor shots as oyu told me, and no matter what, if i shoot

the night, i'll need to use the flash, and same thing in the church...

 

won't it be a better idea to buy a good f2.8 zzoom lens and in case of low light shoot use the 580EXII + gary

fong difuser instead of buying more expensive prime lenses knowing that no matter what, i'll have to use flash too??

 

Just a question, that i'll be interested to know the naswer :)

To each his own. You can get away with fast(f2.8) zooms in weddings. Its better if you "can" get a 85 1.2L/501.2L for

more possibilities. As for the flash, I get the vibe that you dont use the flash correctly and to full potential. Without

starting a long post, read Flash Photography at Planet Neil.

 

I think its www.planetneil.com. Be sure to read all the flash sections. This guy is very good at making images look

as though a flash wasn't within 10miles of him. And he can explain it better than I and anyone else i've ever heard

explain it. After I picked up on him, I threw that Gary Fong thing in the garbage. I get better results without a diffuser

at all.

 

As in most cases, more equipment doesnt make us better. Only more effecient. I can now get the same

results(within reason) with a Rebel XTi/ 24-70 f2.8L/ 580ex as I can get with my $4700 1D3 and all the listed.

Because

I learned how to properly use/understand my current tools and use them for all they're worth. I didnt need that $50

Gary Fong Lightsphere to make my pictures better. Just a technique adjustment. And thats free. I think reading the

website I listed will answer all your questions

Read this: http://www.photo.net/learn/wedding/equipment

 

Purchase this: http://www.digitalwakeupcall.com/ and this: http://www.photovisionvideo.com/store/shop.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=P&Product_Code=WEDTV2025&Category_Code=DVD

 

You can use the money you saved by purchasing the 40Ds.

intersting answer... :) i'll read the links you have me :)

The links David gave are excellent resources (I'm a big Ziser fan). I'm also a Fong diffuser fan, and I can tell you from my experience (and I've tried everything) that when you use the Fong diffuser correctly (and it's not perfect for every situation, but it's an excellent product), it produces gorgeous results. This does not take away the need for fast prime lenses of high quality, or the need to understand flash bounce techniques.

Before you buy the way overpriced Gary Fong, order this one instead. It's the same thing, maybe better, because you have several dome colors to play with. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14201 I'm not sure what flash you are using but they carry every type of model attachment from this place.

 

As both Davids have suggested it may be better to study more about weddings and portraiture. In the long run you may save yourself a lot of money.

 

For me, 90 percent of each wedding is done with just 1 lens. It is the 24-105 IS L, and it's not a wicked fast lens. I still carry lots of lenses to each wedding ranging from 15mm's to 400mm's. I carry 3 zooms, the rest are primes and the primes don't get much use.

 

Depending on the church/temple whatever the place may be, often flash photography is prohibited. So a good tripod will be needed.

 

You may also wish to read and practice about dragging the shutter and using multiple flash units. You can get some pretty amazing images using both styles.

 

I hope you understand I'm not against buying stuff, frankly I have a ton of stuff, I'm just trying to save you from buying stuff you will never use. Feel free in emailing me for more info.

To Steve>

 

Actually, I did not throw my Gary Fong away. It was $50. And it is an excellent defuser. Ihave gotten great results

from it. But as you state, its not always the answer. I've just found that if/when you can properly bounce the flash,

the results are much better and it doesnt cost $50. As I stated, a good fast L adds alot of possiblities if needed.

 

But as Bob said, in most cases, its not. I thinks he's right about the 24-105. I had it, sold it because I felt I couldnt

achieve the needed shutter speed with f/4 and opted for the 24-70. looking back, I think now, I sometimes wish I still

had it. Because I have learned more technique and I can get the same results in most cases using it, and I

remember i could hand

hold that thing at 1/15 at 105...no problem. I really miss that IS. So having said that, I think its an excellent Wedding

lens because most of the time, you can get the picture with f/4 as everyone is moving pretty slow/if at all. Just drag

that shutter, and the IS keeps the camera shake at bay. Dancing on

the other hand, switch to a fast prime is probably best. But not an absolute must.

 

As Bob and Steve caught my point, after he reads mine and David S. links, he'll probably find he already has

the equipment needed to achive his goals. Good technique and understanding is worth far more than a 85 f1.2L and

in most cases you can learn for free.

Don't forget, there is another alternative for a no-flash indoor ceremony in dim light--the tripod. A fast prime is wonderful generally, and in particular, is great because you can get away with not needing a tripod in dimmer light than you can with an f2.8 zoom. But nothing is going to be the one answer all the time in every situation. Hence, people have fast primes in addition to zooms. Plus, there is a matter of what YOU want to do, what is acceptable to YOU. Nobody does one thing all the time and there is no one right answer for everything.

 

There is also the matter of whether you are allowed to use flash during the ceremony. Many times you aren't, and your diffuser isn't going help you there.

For difussion I prefer the Stoffen omnibounce most of the time.

Bob B - I'm interested of purchasing the Golden White Soft Lambency and trying it out for a couple of portrait sessions. Seems to be a cheaper alternative than Gary Fong's orignal version and I wonder how it would perform compare to GF's. Would you by any chance can post some pictures? Thank you sir!

Rico, If you're still thinking of getting a bracket, then I think that the GF or the GWSL is gonna be on the awkward side mounted on a bracket. Below is a photo with the flip bracket and an omnibounce. The GF or omnibounce both produce good results if they're used with good technique. Suggest that you get the training first and equipment second........<div></div>

<p>Doesn't your question just come down to zoom or prime lenses? The flash thing is a distraction since you can use flash equally well with either set-up and get the same results. I'd say the more important thing is how you want the image to render, which usually comes down to lens design and aperture size.</p>

 

<p>It's a question of personal choice, and to some extent your dexterity in changing lenses and ability to adapt the focal length you're using to the scene. If you don't like changing lenses (or struggle to adapt to the one you're using) you'll be better off with a zoom. Otherwise you may prefer primes and the different image quality that fast glass can bring.</p>

 

<p>For me it's always primes because I like to shoot faster than f2.8, and I like small, light lenses.</p>

As a sidenote, the Lambency "Fong Knockoff" product is very hard to find these days because Gary has a lawsuit against them right now. I've seen where they are now selling the clear diffuser without the domes, because the domes are an integral part of Gary's patent, and they're trying to sidestep patent infringement issues. Lots of folks bash Gary because they feel his products are overpriced, but think about it...it's made in America, uses quality-controlled materials, and is a patented design. I can tell you that any time you bring an injection-molded product to market, deal with patent lawyers and the patent office, and try to make your product with a US manufacturer, tooling costs are VERY expensive, hence the higher cost. You really have to admire Gary for not sacrificing American make or quality just so he could bring his products to market cheaper. He could have used an overseas supplier, but that doesn't help our country. My hat's off to him, and I support his products because of this. When we buy cheap knockoffs of American products, it doesn't help our folks here. Sometimes, it's unavoidable to buy foreign goods, because we can't get it anywhere else, but that's my take anyway.

 

As for the rest of the discussion, I always say use the tool that works best for you. Planet Neil is a great resource, and if you can use those techniques in your situation, you'll get great results too. I've seen Ziser use a white reflector in a church to shoot formals, by bouncing his flash off it, and onto the subject, and the results are stunning. Diffusers and bounce cards aren't always the answer for everything, but they help in a lot of cases. And for me, anything that helps me get great shots at a wedding with less work is worth $50!

I would say that an IS 2.8 zoom would be the first stop for me. Following that, the 135/2 is less money and can be used in lots of situations.

 

I have shot (hand held) the 70-200IS from the back of a church, at 200mm using ISO3200 and getting 1/15th sec. exposure. I got sharp shots when I did it well. So, the advantage in that situation (really dark churches) of IS over fast aperture is a must IMO.

 

Best, D.

David, thanks for the sample picture and you persuaded me enough to settle with the bracket and omnibounce. I have been thinking of purchasing the Lightsphere for some time instead of the bracket but I heard it has its inconsistency and I don't want to spend 50 bucks if that's the case. I guess the bracket and the omnibounce, though awkward but more reliable than anything else out there.

Actually, Rico, before you plunk down dollars for a bracket, why don't you experiment with handholding your flash with an inexpensive bounce card with the flash on a sync cord? All the bracket does is hold the flash higher in an attempt to make shadows drop behind the subject (and make your rig heavy and awkward), but in the event you're shooting people against a wall (and I never do), you can just hold the flash where you want it. Then, you don't have to have the bulky and awkward bracket, and you can bounce the flash in any direction you like, just by pointing it by hand. THEN, if you find you want a bracket, then go for it.

 

In my experience, there is no "inconsistency" in the Fong device, and no bracket needed with it either.

Another great advice, Steve! I guess my only concern is, as mentioned before, I have a D40X and a couple of prime lenses that do not have built in motors. If only I have a third arm to hold the flash while focusing manually. Anyway, I will give that a try first by hand holding the flash w/ a sync chord and see how comfortable it is. Thanks again!

I understand, Rico. Hey, it's time to get some auto-focus lenses, huh?!

I actually do have some af lenses. I bought a Sigma 105 2.8 and didn't mind manual focus back then, thinking I would use it for macro but I seem to use it more for portraiture nowadays. 50mm 1.4 is the other one, I'm thinking selling this one and get the AFS version this December but thought I would wait until somebody does some reviews comparing the original and the afs version. Anyway, thanks for your help and I really appreciate it.

Rico--not to confuse you further, but before I spent any money on either a bracket or a modifier, I would test things out first. For portraiture, where you have more time and control, normally, you want to avoid having the image look like it was obviously taken with a single on-camera flash. A Lightsphere or OmniBounce, or white card, or whatever, will give you that look if the flash is used as main light. Personally, I'd make myself some different kinds of A Better Bounce Cards and experiment. Even make a facsimile of the Lightsphere or OmniBounce to find out if you like it. Also look at the Demb Diffuser.

Rico--not to confuse you further, but...." The GF or omnibounce ( or the better bounce card, demb diffuser, whaletail & others) all can produce good results, if they're used with good technique. Suggest that you get the training first and equipment second........

 

My point for both Miakuel and Rico is to let your training drive your equipment choices rather than simply experimenting with equipment. BTW, the bride in the image above was only a couple of feet from the wall behind her. Here's another inexpensive training resource that will help you understand and get the most from your flash:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/414626-REG/Blue_Crane_Digital_BC201_DVD_Understanding_the_Canon.html#

Rico, that/this site has all sorts of toys! Located in Hong Kong, but I've never has issues with deliveries. Expect 10 days or less for delivery. Most of it is free delivery.

 

I've compared the 2 types and I favor the cheaper one from DEALS. You can find a lot of hard to find stuff on here. http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.806

I'm sorry, but I can't see buying some of this cheap overseas knockoff stuff on Deal Extreme (some of it's okay, but I primarily mean the diffusers). I mean, they've directly knocked off Sto-Fen and Gary Fong. Sto-Fen has been in business a long time, and I'm sure they don't appreciate the presence of these knock-offs on the market. This outfit has 3 direct Fong knockoffs, and I know he's got the manufacturer in a lawsuit already. Rightly so. Sure, the stuff is cheaper, but I can't support it.

< I'm sorry, but I can't see buying some of this cheap overseas knockoff stuff Deal Extreme > Have you tried it? Can you post some examples, comparing the cheap stuff on Deal compared to Fong? Also where was the lawsuit filed? I'd like to read about it. If it's true then I won't buy their "Cheap," products.

Bob, I haven't bought any of the knockoffs because I already have the real product, and have no need to compare it for myself. They probably perform similarly, but that's not the point. The point is, I know how bad the problem of foreign knockoffs are to American business, and cheap knockoffs hurt legitimate U.S. inventors like Gary. Oh, he's not gonna starve or anything, believe me, but right is right and wrong is wrong.

 

I did send an e-mail to them about the knockoffs, and here is the response I got back...

 

 

Thank you very much for the information you provided. Gary Fong, Inc. aggressively protects its Intellectual Property rights.

 

Intellectual property rights vary by country. Please know that our legal department is aware of the offending sales and is actively seeking relief against the offending parties. We may contact you in the future for further details as needed. In the meantime, if you have additional information regarding this or other infringements, please feel free to contact us at legal@garyfonginc.com. The information you provide will be held in strictest confidence.

 

Intellectual Property infringement is not a victimless crime and we sincerely appreciate your assistance in this matter. We would like to show our appreciation by providing the following coupon code - (deleted). Enter it during check-out to receive 10% off of your purchase of authentic Gary Fong products.

 

We appreciate your business. Please let us know if we may be of further assistance.

 

Note: Tickets may be closed, but will automatically reopen if you reply. Please do not change the SUBJECT line.

 

Regards,

 

Crystal

--

Gary Fong Customer Support

 

http://www.garyfonginc.com/support

 

 

So, whaddya think?