ramiro_aceves Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Hello, I have seen different Zone System literature in wich it is said that you have to do the development time test in order to get a very slight shade of gray different from white with the Zone VIII frame. Other literature sais that it must be done with zone IX. If you do it with zone VIII, then zone IX does not exist anymore (paper base) and zone VIII will not have any texture. Other web page says that you have to print a ZONE 1.5 and zone 8.5 at the same time in the enlarger to get a slight shade of grey different from black and a slight shade of gray different from white. So, the zone VIII test and the ZONEs (1.5 to 8.5) test implies 7 stop range, while zone IX test implies 8 zones. Perhaps the zone 1.5 to 8.5 test is better adjusted to the 7 stops average scene luminance with zone V in the middle. What do you think? The zone IX is too much range for me. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip_sweeney Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I don't think I can answer your question directly. However, ideally first we need to decide what paper we will print to, or papers. If it is more than one paper it gets more complex. Lets stick to one. So for a grade 2 paper, lets say our negative's filmbase plus fog (Fb+f)is 0.06. So 0.1 plus Fb+f is 0.16 and this will be our speed point (zone I). We need a 1.2 density range for grade 2. So our total density at zone VIII should be 1.36 (+/- 0.04 or something like that). After all that we are ready to print to our paper. Lets assume our paper white is 0.04. You want zone VIII to print at 0.08 (0.04 over paper base). So VIII is top of the scale and IX is pure paper white. I think the best books on the subject are "The Negative" by Ansel Adams and "Beyond the Zone System" by Phil Davis. For some actual test results see my site: <html> <a href="http://home.att.net/~shipale/index.html">phil sweeney's website</a> </body> </html> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_kolosky Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 there are 10 zones. 0 through 9. 0 is black. 9 is white. 8 is very very slight gray. you don't need a densitometer. all you need to do is get the paper you are going to use. Do a maximum black for minimum time test with that paper. write down exactly what you did (time, temp., enlarge height, brightness of bulb or f stop). then do your zone 1 and zone 8 tests using the same as maximum black for minimum time. if they are off, adjust only iso for zone 1 and processing time for zone 8. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 There are eleven zones, 0 to X. Zone IX has just the merest hint of tone and is only discernible by comparison with base white (Value X). Actually, strictly speaking Zones refer to the subject. When speaking of the negative or the print we should refer to Values. I suggest you read 'Tee Negative' and get it straight from the man himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramiro_aceves Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 For Kevin: Thank you very much for your response, it is exactly what I was asking for. With 6.5 minutes at 20C for 100TMAX ID11 1:1 dilution, I get a very very slight gray at zone VIII. I think I have it now. Thank you, your posts always have been very valuable for me. For Lex Jenkins: Many thanks for encouraging me. I like everything that is related to the technical aspect of everything, but now that I have it understood, I want to start making pictures, not test frames... :-) Also many thanks for Philip Sweeney for his interesting post. Thank you to Chris Waller also. I have read many times "The Negative", Ansels makes a very detailed explanation on zones, but He does not explain how to match to the paper. That is the thing I do not like about Adams Book, he only give us densitometric data for zone VIII and not for zone IX, I do not know why he bases on densitometric data instead of matching experimentaly the negative to the paper..... It is a pity not being able to ask him now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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