Zones System - 10 or 11 zones?

I've read several books dealing with the Zone System. Some describe densities as falling from Zones 0-IX, while others range from 0-X. The longer scale includes an "extra" zone in the light areas, giving an inclusive range of 6 Zones with full detail; while the shorter scales indicate a subject brightness range of 5 as normal. Which is more useful and why is there a difference? I'm guessing that the 0-IX system is older and perhaps the 0-X system takes into account greater highlight separation of newer emulsions. If anyone knows the answer, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

Chris

Yeah Chris, it's confusing. I always hear there are 10 zones. I've

seen the system starting at Zone 0 or 1 going up to Zone 10 or 11.

In "The Negative", Adams says there are 10 zones, but he showes a

gray scale including Zone 0. I guess Zones 0 and 10 are the absolute

black and white produced on the paper... even though the negative is

supposed to capture more information than this. Very vexing, isn't it?

<p>

Cheerio

Thanks for your response, but what I've noticed is that some books

describe a 10 zone range of densities, with 0 being maximum black and

IX paper white; while other books describe an 11 zone density range,

from 0 as maximum black to X as paper white. I'm wondering how to

reconcile this.

Chris

in "the negative" Adams states that there have been variations in the

concept of the scale of zones--for modern materials he choose the "0"

to "X" scale. (eleven zones) pg xi in the introduction.

<p>

also on page 50 you will see a tonal representation of the scale....0-

x....eleven zones.

Actually, you can have more than 10-11 zones depending on the type of

film you use and how well you process it. Unfortunately, even if you

can discern 12 or more zones on the film, your paper will only be able

to respond to about 6-8 zones depending on your printing capabilities.

From someone with a vicarious experience with the zone system: If

you have 11 zones and set zone V to midpoint, you will have a

notation system with as many zones above midpoint as below. I don't

know if this is a big deal, but it appeals to me because of it's

symmetry.

<p>

To touch a bit on another point, many modern negative emulsions have

an extended shoulder with up to, say 5 more zones. Bruce Barbaum

describes this best in his book "the Art of Photography". I wonder

if papers incorporating optical whiteners have also made an

additional zone possible in the actual print?

<p>

Cheers,

<p>

Duane

When Minor White created the Zone system there were many thick emulsion films such as Super Double-X. These films had the capability to record 11 stops of exposure range between shadow (toe) to highlight (shoulder). They had silver grains which varied in size - the smaller ones needed more exposure and the larger ones less. Over time Kodak and other film manufactures concentrated on thinner emulsions with more uniform grain sizes. Smaller grain results in sharper and less grainy images. T-max is the ultimate in uniform grain size and consequently less useful for Zone system work because you cannot contract or expand it much.

Ansel Adams mentions this change toward thinner emulsions in one of his books and explains that it is why most people have shifted to a 10 step Zone scale for modern photographic film.

Today there is a good reason think in terms of an 11 step Zone system again. The curves dialog in Photoshop can be set for 4 or 10 sections which results in 5 or 11 steps. Few digital cameras or photographic films will actually record 11 stops of exposure. But if you work in "pseudo steps" or steps unlinked from exposure stops you can have 11 steps.

You can print your own 11 step gray scale to include in test photos and use with the Photoshop curves dialog in its 10 section mode. Don't print it with a constant digital difference between steps. If you have access to an EyeOne or print densitometer look for equal steps measured from the grayscale. Failing a tool, try to balence the steps visually - equal difference between steps. Doing this stepwedge on gloss paper will result in slightly larger dynamic range. Of course a paper grayscale will have a narrower range than film or digital but can still be a useful tool. I use side-by-side stepwedges - one with 10 steps for conventional Zone system and one with 11 steps for Photoshop.

"When Minor White created the Zone system..."

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Let's not rewrite history. The Zone System was developed as a result of work done by Ansel Adams, Fred Archer and Minor White. White may have been the first to write a book with the term "Zone System" in the title but he didn't "create" it.

There is a tendance to confuse input (film) and output (print or slide).

<p>In the digital world, brightness in a print or slide (output) can be measured from 0 to 100%, where 0 is black, and 100 is white. It is easy to describe 11 zones as 0%, 10% ... 90% 100% etc.

<p>No matter how many zones the film can record (input), the final print or slide (output) can always be described in 11 zones of 10% each - or 21 zones of 5% each if you like - or whatever.

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