Zone VI Studios buyback???

Someone had a great idea on Fred Picker's death post. Buy Zone VI

back from Calumet and bring it back to where it once was. Any

thoughts on that?

 

In my view Zone VI products are no longer what they were. While the

product line may have remained the same, none of it feels like the

original anymore. Almost immediately after the take over they dropped

the LifeTime warranty, which says a lot about Calumet's thinking

process (accountants run their business). On top of that all the good

stuff that was always part of Zone VI Studios catalogs (like it or

not but very informative) was gone at an instant. Results to me have

been sort of like learning the Zone System by using expired

materials, broken spot meter, and a hand held flashlight as the

enlarger light source (with expired batteries of course).

 

It always seemed to me Zone VI was never meant to be acquired by such

a mamoth as Calumet. It was a typical small company approach to doing

business, and doing it very, very well. Complemented by such a great

mind as Fred's it was a success from the start. I'm yet to see (or

hear) anything but positive on Zone VI as it once was.

 

Let's get some minds (and cash) together and make Zone VI Sudios

shine once more.

Witold, Zone VI died before Fred Picker passed away. Let them both rest in peace. There are plenty of new companies, with new ideas, out there. Even some old companies with new ideas. Fred was a unique individual. Until another person with his capabilities comes along, look for other alternatives. Certainly, Calumet couldn't carry the ball. I doubt that any other vendor could have sucessfully continued Fred's hands-on philosophy.

Eugene,

I'm not sure I completely agree. It's true Fred Picker was one of a kind and there is few who could match his approach to successfuly managing a business directed at such a specific market. If I did not think there is people who are not only interested but just as capable to continuing the great (in my view) Zone VI Studios tradition, I'd have never posted this.

 

I personally missed the Studios. I do not believe there is another company of this sort on the market today. Calumet had the financial means to making it a stand out excercise, but they did not care enough, or did not understand the uniqueness of the Studios, to accept the challange.

 

As for letting them both rest in peace? Fred Picker's death has been one of the greater losses in recent years, especially to all B&W printers. He, through his own efforts, instilled in many an understandable approach to making the fine print. I'm one of the many who wanted to meat with him one day, participate in his workshops. The death will surely make many realize the meaning of his contribution to the developement of the medium. While Zone VI Studios were of his creation, nothing should stop anyone from trying to bring it back to life. I actually think, if Fred Picker knew what a disaster the Calumet's take over turned out to be (or what the photo community's feelings were), he would've encouraged others to do exactly that.

 

My post does not have any disrespectful implications. I'm simply saying: there was something out there one day, most of us liked it, why not try to have it back again. It's only the matter of finding that capable and willing certain someone.

I'm glad nobody thought that Harley-Davidson should rest in peace after being taken over and run into the ground by AMF in the 70's. A buy back and many years of hard work brought that company back from the dead, thank goodness, and it could work for a company like Zone VI as well.

In defense of my remarks: I was one of Fred Pickers admirers from the first time I read his book, over twenty years ago. I purchased, and still use, many of his unique Zone VI products, including the Zone VI VC lamphouse on my Omega D2 enlarger. I had conversations with him over the phone. He was always helpful and considerate in his own unique way. Fred was Zone VI. He had his reasons for selling to Calumet. I don't believe that he realized, at the time, that Calumet would be bought out by another company. Fred's writings, photos, and instructional videos are still available. Zone VI cameras, enlargers, and printing paper are still available from Calumet. The only thing missing is Fred. He cannot be replaced. That's what I was trying to say.

Witold

 

The process is not all that difficult. An inquiry to Calumet would be the first step. If in fact it is for sale, you could become an "incorporator" and register a corporation with your Secretary of State. the next step would be to inquire of others interested in large format photography of their interest in an investment in such a venture.

 

I too spoke with Fred Picker on a number of occasions, and I have letters from him as well. I can assure you of one thing, and that is that whatever else Fred Picker was, he was also a shrewd businessman.

You can be sure that he made money on his sale to calumet. And who can blame him for that.

 

Kevin

Eugene,

 

Your point on Fred Picker is well, well taken. He cannot be replaced, but someone could step into his shoes. It'll be a different person but could potentially be as successful.

 

I think Fred Picker's success with Zone VI Studios was a result of not only his great business skills but a complete dedication to the cause. If he did not take pride in delivering the best goods possible, he would've never succeeded to that degree.

 

While the possible take over might require a group of individuals for financial reasons (I really have no idea what Zone VI is worth to Calumet these days), it will take a single person to meet expectations. I think Fred has left a generous amount of information (books, videos, newsletters, catalogs) so the future man in charge would have a good take on the spirit behind the success of Zone VI. He must do it out of love for photography and love for making things right. On top of that he could improve in some areas, especially pricing which was (with few exceptions) on the high side. I also believe that some products have substantial room left for improvement. This would especially include the enlarger and the field camera. While the enlarger is by far the best America has ever put out, it should not stop someone from making it better, something like Zone VI simple and Durst precise. As for the field camera ... well, wooden fields are far from what they could be. Even Wisner does not come close to filling the potential of the design. But that's another thread I might soon put out here.

 

Since I believe there is many years left in traditional film processing, there is also a need for the old Zone VI Studios.

 

As for what's available today? Fred's videos are no longer stocked by Calumet (what a shame and crooked thinking). They used to be available through Fred's web site

 

http://www.sover.net/~fredpick/videos.html

 

but after his departure it may not happen again (I recently inquired about it and had a response from Fred's nephew stating they're trying to replanish their own stock).

 

All in all, recreation of the old Zone VI spirit would be (if nothing else) a tribute to Fred and his hardly measurable contribution to fine photography.

By the way, there already is one gentleman that is attempting to take up where Fred left off, sort of. The name of the company is Fine Art Photo Supply and the fellows name is Anthony Guidice. He has started a newsletter very much like the one Fred Started so many years ago, and he offers a couple of items, such as a print washer and a printing frame. A long ways from an enlarger and a camera for sure, but maybe supporting his venture will help him to build a company in the same manner that supporting Fred helped him to build his company.

 

The phone number is 585-865-4793

 

ONe last thing. Please put up that thread on wooden field camera design. I am sure there are many here who would love to contribute.

 

Kevin

Let's give Calumet their due.

 

Prior to purchase by Calumet, the Zone VI 5x7 enlarger did not cover 5x7, contrary to claims. I know, because I own one of the earlier models. (The Type I.) Upon purchasing Zone VI, Calumet completely redesigned the enlarger to fix this problem and to make other improvements.

 

What impressed me was that Calumet designed a second head capable of printing 5x7 to fit the older Type I enlargers already owned by pre-Calumet Zone VI customers, and it was sold at half-price to those with a trade-in. This was unnecessary, and I've always thought that it represented a touch of class on Calumet's part.

First I will say Fred was sorry he sold Zone VI after he saw what happened to it. As to the enlarger it was designed as a 4 x 5 with an over sized light grid to give better coverage on a 4 x 5 negtive. Calunet owned Zone VI at the time the enlarger was designed. Fred never wanted the enlarge sold as a 5 x 7.

Thank's for chiming in Richard. You're one of the few who actually were close enough to know the facts. There was an article in View Camera implying that Zone VI would eventually make a comeback, without Calumet. What ever happened to that idea? Aren't there any Zone VI employees out there who would like to continue on their own, like the Harley Davidson people did? Evidentally, there are investors just waiting to hand out the money and consumers eagerly waiting for the next new product to come out.( I'm being sarcastic. haven't had my cup of coffee this morning).

I don't want to necessarily pick on the pre-Calumet Zone VI organization. I recognize the excellent contributions that Fred Picker made to photography. For example, I have both the enlarging and the developing compensating timers, and I think they are outstanding tools.

 

But, I have a Spring 1995 Catalog in which Fred Picker himself is describing the "Zone VI 5x7 Enlarger". In this description, Mr. Picker compares his new enlarger to his Codelite head that he had purchased in 1965. I quote from this description:

 

"Rather than size the heads to marginally cover a 4x5, we made them big enough to generously cover a 5x7."

 

The enlarger shown is clearly the Type I enlarger. This was a deception. It was based on this statement that I purchased my enlarger.

 

As it is, I sold my 5x7 camera, and my enlarger works great for 4x5 and smaller negatives. It's a first rate enlarger.

Neil,

 

Perhaps Richard can shed some light on this. If at the time Calumet had already owned teh zone VI, then maybe it was not Fred's voice anymore. I do not believe he would willingly misrepresent anything he sold. I think the history of Zone VI prior to your mentioned add should speak for itself. It had been nothing but a great display of integrity, which I believe Fred understood as being the single most important thing in gaining repeat customers.

When I started working a Zone VI Fred explained his philosophy to me, in that Zone VI would sell the best photographic products available. When Zone VI started making their own gear this philosophy was carry over to the items we made and designed. We were to use the best parts available and produce it to the highest quality possible. That's why Zone VI was able to offer the life time guarantee.

We all know what happens when a company is bought out. Some things go by the way side. As I said in an early post the enlarge was never to be viewed as a 5 x 7. Fred did not like the size. As to the copy in the catalog it was a surprise to every one at Zone VI when it arrived. When it happened we were never given a clear answer as to why the change other than "don't worry". Wiltold as you said Fred would never deceive any one that was not his way. As to why the change we will probably never know the answer.

As to the redesigned of the enlarge it happened when Calumet Holdings sold Calumet and all its other companies to the British Holding company.

Witold,<P>have you looked into the View camera store's

offerings? They are exactly the kind of small very niche focused

company you are looking for.Perhaps Mr. Picker needed to sell

the business because of his long term illness? If there had been

no one interested, what then would have become of the

company? There recently was another small manufacturer of

high end products aimed at the photographic craftsman. they

made high tech darkroom tools that made most competing

products look crude ( I am not knocking the very fine Zone VI

products and innovations); That company was Salthill. Where is

Salthill now?

I think it's a nice idea to keep something alive, especially something that had such a name attached to it. I wonder tho the practibility of it for a small outfit and the profitability that could be realized in todays market. There is alot of competition today making very good products, and if anybody were to buy the VI operation from Calumet it would have to be someone with the means to exist while building a business and perhaps reengineering upgrades that is unto itself a mighty expensive operation.

In defense of (old) Calumet, let the history books show that when everyone thought large format was dead Calumet brought out their big old tanky 4X5's for $80, and when there were only high end German lenses available for what most Americans considered a decent used car price, Calumet went looking and re-vitalized Ilex to make their Caltar's and later paved the way for the Japanese to compete with the Germans ie. Computar Symmetrigon by Kowa which ultimately resulted to some degree in the plethora of good balance we enjoy today. They consistently rendered the large format community a good service for a fair profit.

Jim,

 

I think everyone would appreciate the OLD Calumet or any company that would willingly care about the product, the customer etc. We're driving here at the new "improved" way of doing business. Current Calumet is not alone. More and more outfits are nowadays run by accountants. I'll say it as many times as I need to: accountants have little clue on how to run business, they refuse to understand the word "repeat customer", they've historically driven many outfits out of business, and all of it because they've been given way too much power. What companies do these days is a complete joke. Integrity is gone. They lie on the phone, the lie in their emails, they don't take responsibility for their own mistakes, and so they survive in this crude business world ... for a few years. Then CEO's get great pay-outs and that's the end of it. Don't take me wrong, there is still few good people with sound business knowledge. Good for us so we can actually purchase what we think we're purchasing. Let's hope those will stay in business forever. For everyone else I have NO respect. Zone VI belonged to the best. And that's the reason why it'd be nice to have it back. If there is any small company that preaches Zone VI ideology (not that they couldn't have their own, as long as it makes sense) that's great. Credit to them.

<I>"...They lie on the phone, the lie in their emails, they don't take

responsibility for their own mistakes, and so they survive in this

crude business world ... for a few years. "</I><P>You know it is

funny but in twenty plus years of dealing with Calumet or it's new

president, Peter Biassotti -- who befriended me when i was just

starting out and he was running his own small photographic

store in New York -- I have never had any of the above happen. I

have never, ever been lied to over the phone or in e-mails; they

have always taken responsibilities for their mistakes and been

prompt at issuing refunds when something arrived in less than

pristine shape or when things did not arive when promised. I

almost never buy mail order but when I do I know that i can trust

Calumet.<P>The only connection I have with Calumet is that they

sometimes get my money and always put up with my calls.

Well,

 

I just got my first snail mail Fine Art Photo Supply Newsletter, out of Rochester, newsletter, with remenisences of Fred Picker details of their first few products (print washer, contact print frame and tacking iron) and ruminations on the zone system, and ideas for a new developer and fixer

 

So I guess someones already trying it

 

tim

Apparently, my original response got lost in the electron flow.

Probably shouldn't try to write after midnight or so. Anyway, I'm

sorry that I don't have the final answer either, just shared

thoughts and frustrations with the loss of things that we've all

used and enjoyed the generally good craftsmanship of, whether

Zone VI or other companys' goods. Personally, I've had good

luck with Calumet as an entity since the mid-1980's, whether

buying for the museum where I was employed, the school for

which I now teach, or my personal use. Yes, there are less

expensive markets, but I've never had Calumet not come up with

a satisfactory answer, or go out of their way to find "stuff" for me if

it wasn't readily available through the catalog.

I digress (I think Fred said that.) What I'd like to know personally

is whether there are any Zone VI newsletter subscribers out

there who might still have [extras?] the last three issues. I have

through Number 80 of 12/94, and understand that there might be

as many as three more before it folded. I'd be most interested in

knowing that they exist, moreso that they might be available.

Regards to all. Good question! Think Tri-X.

Ellis,

 

I appologize for the mistake I made by not clarifying my statement up front. My comment was NOT related to Calumet as I was rather relating to MOST large businesses (although some of it DOES apply to Calumet as well, read on please).

 

Calumet, in my view, wasted the ZONE VI name. That's the problem I have with them. Unfortunately, since we're talking Zone VI/Calumet here, whatever is said, it automatically applies to either one. My reply was to the post praising OLD Calumet. Perhaps you don't see the difference. I would bring up the enlarger issue and what the posts were saying. Since I will never agree with anyone trying to undermine Fred Picker's integrity, then wasn't it Calumet deceiving customers about enlarger's capabilities? What would you call that? My "they lie here and there" was meant to generaly describe current, widely spread practices of many (way too many) companies trying to make a buck in any way possible. Unfortuantely, most of them are told to do exactly that. You won't experience that if you simply call in, place an order, pay, and eventually receive the item. It's when there is a problem you begin to see the real picture. How many times have you had a phone rep and asked him to be connected with a supervisor? It is a general corporate practice these days to NOT do that. You'll get all kinds of silly excuses. Isn't it running away from accepting responsibility?

 

Zone VI was one of the few places where you could expect fair treatment day in day out. My original thread on the BuyBack was caused mainly by above reasons. There isn't too many places that do that anymore. Accountants HAVE succeeded. Corporate takeovers created large compilations of unrelated subjects. Those in charge of a division have usually no related background (if you agree that a photographer is likely to understand another, for example).

 

I don't have a problem ordering from Calumet (apart from the high prices and dwindling product line, I'm sure by numbers they keep on adding "new" stuff). I still order from B&H, but web site only as they've been driven away from sound practices as well.

 

All in all, I respect everyones views. And again, I appologize for not being clear enough in my thoughts.

Witold, have no regrets about not dealing with Calumet, anymore. After eighteen years of buying my equipment and supplies from Calumet, by phone order, I also changed over to B&H phone order for my supplies, and Midwest Photo Exchange for my equipment. I found that Calumet's prices were becoming un-realistic, and they always seemed to be out of stock on many of the items that I needed. I look up the catalogue item numbers on the B&H website before I call. It avoids a lot of confusion, because the order takers at B&H always seem to be too busy to answer questions or discuss problems. "Old" Calumet always made time to do that.

Thanks Eugene,

 

As for the B&H, I dealt with them a lot when I ran a photo club in collage. That's some eens years ago. Then they had a motto: "the price you see is the price you pay". It was sooo true then. I remember purchasing a Minolta X-700. I was still learning NY's mail order and B&H had a decent price but still about $20 above few other places. In the end I ordered from them anyway because of shipping charges. With others you saved $20 on an item and they got you by $40-50 on the shipping. So B&H used to be great. Same went for their staff and willingness to spend time with you. It started to change I'd say some 7-8 years ago. Exactly what you mentioned, get the order and don't bother explaining anything. At least they're still on the competitive side in the pricing department. I switched to net ordering because it started to irritate me too much.

 

I obviousely have strong feelings about corporate world. It all comes from plain old fashined personal experience. I wish I had none of that sort.

 

Since Richard's post on the enlarger issue I have that much less respect for Calumet. But this thread is suppose to be more about pulling away Zone VI than bashing Calumet. It's sure good to hear of some small outfits trying to fill in.

Witold thanks for yothe apology and my apologies for my

rant.<P>I mentioned "The View Camera Store in an earlier post

in this thread. Their website is still listed under their former

name "Darkroom Innovations" and that URL is <A HREF

=http://www.darkroom-innovations.com>

http://www.darkroom-innovations.com</A>