Zeiss Tessar 4.5/180 Mystery Lens Mount...?

Discussion in 'Classic Manual Cameras' started by tim_readhead, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. Hi there,
    Recently acquired a Zeiss Tessar 4.5/180. I can't work out what camera's it can be used with? Can anyone identify the lens mount? Is it modified? I thought it was a large format lens but it seems the bayonet style mount isn't likely to be mounted on a lens board... so I'm at a loss!
    Can anyone shed some light? Take a look at the pictures. (i might also add that the lens is marked'N51'...anyone know what this means?)

    A couple snaps of the lens...

    This is the lens we are dealing with...
  2. Early Exakta ?
  3. For future reference, if you reduce the file to a maximum of 700 pixels dimension and put on a title, the thing will display in line.
    At first glance I thought it might be Pentacon 6 mount, but the bayonets are too large.
  4. Here's what a P6 mount looks like
  5. I'm not sure what the actual size is, but long ago I had an Ernemann 9 x 12 plate camera (same size as Maximar and the like) that had a bayonet mount, but that one was pretty small and though I have not seen it for about 25 years and never had a second lens for it, my recollection is that the shutter was included in the part that came off. And of course it long predated the DDR.
    It's pretty hard to figure without knowing the size of the flange.
    The Zeiss Movicon 16 had a bayonet mount for its lenses. If it's the right size, that or another movie camera might be worth looking at.
    My other thought, depending on dimension, is that it might be half of a pair for some TLR.
    If it's for an Exakta, I think it is home made. The usual Exakta mount would have its bayonet a good bit smaller than the lens barrel, and on the wider part should be a little stud for the latch.
  6. It does have a home made or home modified look about it. The half screw heads don't make sense and the one nearest the top right has a beat up screw in it.
  7. According to this list the serial number is from 1970-75
    I also wondered about whether it was for a Movikon but this pre-war bayonet looks different.
  8. I don't know tto much about mounts. But the N may mean Nikon and it has some similarities ie two similar sized lobes and one larger. I can't say I've ever seen a Nikon RF mount, I read they are very compatible to the Contax mount. My first thought was this would make sense as a Contax but all the long and wide lenses use an external mount so that seems to count that one out. I looked at an Exakta and late series has three lobes all apparently the the same size. The mount construction does look a bit "bastelt" that is home made. The appearance of the lens does place it in the late sixties mid seventies Jena/DDR etc I noticed a similar notched lobe from a Konica


    I'm curious ..keep me posted!
  9. very early Yashica 35mm SLR had bayonet with notched lobe (not Contax/ Yashica which is current)
  10. Chuck, "N-51" is CZJ (DDR) speak for "barrel is threaded M51" at the rear. I think it has 1 tp/mm. Nikon has nothing to do with it.
    If this is the case, the lens is screwed into an adapter. Tim, does this seem to be the case?
    Colin, thanks for saving me the trouble of looking at the first image to find the s/n. Given the vintage, it was probably made for an east-bloc camera. Perhaps Mentor, perhaps Globica, although if I remember correctly both mounted flanges to lens boards, screwed lenses into the flanges.
  11. Hmmm, very interesting! So we know that it was made in 1970-1975, but surely it has to be for large format as there is no focusing on the lens barrel? The bayonet part was threaded on and i have removed it! The lens is therefore threaded, but what cameras take such a thread size? It's certainly not m42!
  12. Tim, does that knurled ring around the the lens barrel in the above picture mean that the lens has a focusing action? i.e. does the lens barrel get longer or shorter when you turn that ring or is the mount solid and the knurled ring just for getting a grip on it? Any distance scale?
  13. It looks to be a large format lens, probably from a Globica portrait camera. The knurled ring may be for the aperture.
  14. Tim, if you'll look up Mentor cameras, you'll find that they have curtain shutters. Some models have the shutter at the focal plane, others have it on the lens board. I think that some Globicas also use curtain shutters.
    Large format doesn't invariably mean "lenses in leaf shutter."
  15. Tim, the lens was actually produced as a barrel lens for a large format camera with a focal plane shutter, as Dan stated. From further research, it will cover a 4 3/4x6 1/2" Film size at maximum aperture at infinity.
  16. The knurled ring is for the aperture. No distance scale either. It's certainly for large format, i just presume there is a part missing that means i can attach it to a lens board..? Globicas appear to be very rare so i doubt i can ever use this lens as you believe it might be intended Raymond.
    My lens seems very similar to this... M53 mount?....
  17. oh, by the way, Dan, i've only just seen your post about what N51 means. Thanks, for that! So it's an m51 threaded large format lens eh?
  18. Cheers Raymond, so i could shoot 5 x 4 on it then. That's decent. Where did you find that info?
  19. So, the lens could certainly be for a large format camera and would cover probably 5x7 inches or so. (The 135mm Tessar just covers 4x5 buit no more). However lens makers often made this sort of general purpose lens for any use you wanted to put it to. So your lens might not have been made for any specific camera - but just made as a high quality lens for whatever purpose the buyer wanted to use it for.
    Here is a link to the Schneideroptics site for the Xenar f4.5 180mm. That data gives 217mm as the image circle. It is similar to the Tessar so may well give a good idea of the image circle etc. To check just point the lens at the sky from inside a darkened room and hold a bit of card at the focal plane. Then (with your third hand) measure the diameter of the image circle.
  20. Tim, you should be able to use the lens with any large format camera. It would work on a Speed Graphic. You would mount it to a lens board with a hole that would match the diameter of the thread (51mm?). They were probably using the bayonet piece as a lock nut. If the camera does not have a focal plane shutter just use a lens cap and time it manually.

    I found the info from googling "globica tessar jena" and finding the following PDFs. It appears the lens was also labeled as a Meyer-Optik.

  21. Can anyone find a lens board with a 51mm thread? i'm struggling. As someone eluded to earlier, maybe the extra screw in mount that came with this lens was purely used to trap the lens to the lens board?
    Also, do you think with the right adapters and extension tubes i could use it as a fixed focus lens for my canon 5d MII? Do M51 adapters even exist?
  22. is this my lens but with a screw mount adapter added to make it Rollei SL 66 compatible?
  23. Hi all it is a large format plate film camera lens i have three 180mm 4.5,250mm 4.5,300mm 4.5 all three i converted with a old vivitar 28-200mm lens helicoid and used on my 35mm Praktica ltl camera and i now use them on my canon digital 1000D and 60D
    you can see 250mm and 300mm
    here you can see my love for zeiss

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