zeiss super ikon c 531/2 OR Agfa Record III?

I have found two 6x9s for the same price at different locations. The Zeiss has Tessar

105mm f/3.5 lens in a Compur Rapid shutter with X sync. The Agfa Record 111 has

Solinar 4.5 lens - 105mm & Synchro Compur shutter. Both seem to be in excellent

condition.

I need help, I want sharp images. I am leaning towards the f/3.5 for lower light, but

does anyone have any suggestions/ recommendations? I want a 6x9 lightweight

camera. I need help with this somewhat pricey decision.......

Or, if you think there is another less expensive alternative, let me know. I have carried

my battleship of a Pentax 67 around for so long I have shoulder problems : ).

Although it has served me well... I need less weight at a lower cost.

Thanks very much in advance for your wisdom,

Mike Elek's two pennies on this:

 

That's quite a choice (not a dilemma -- that's when one or more outcomes are bad). On one hand, you have to love the Super Ikonta C, the sheer size of the negative and the excellent Tessar lens. On the other hand, this camera is old -- pushing 50 years most likely or more -- and possibly could need some basic maintenance before it's ready for action.

 

On the other hand, the Agfa Record is a much newer camera, and the coated (???) Solinar also is a fine lens being a Tessar design. In use, there's not a huge difference bewteen f/3.5 and f/4.5. It's really less than 1 stop. The only knock against the Agfa folders is that the bellows didn't seem to hold up as well, and most people who have owned an Agfa will tell you that they had to repair a hole in the bellows. I think you've actually experienced this first-hand.

 

Check for any signs that the camera has been dropped. Make sure that the bed opens smoothly and locks into place without having to press either of the struts. When open, there should be no play in the bed or lens. It should be rigid.

 

Check the bellows for holes. Check the slow speeds on the shutter and the self-timer, which is a small button that you slide to the rear of the shutter housing when cocking the shutter. Put the shutter on B and release it and hold. Then release again. The blades should snap open and close.

 

Look for oil on the aperture blades. Check the lens for cloudiness, fungus and mold, as well as chips. Don't worry about air bubbles. That's part of the charm -- or so people say.

 

Aside from physical damage, everything else can be corrected.

 

Because I'm a Zeiss devotee, I'd have to go with the Super Ikonta. It's an engineering marvel, a work of art and an excellent camera. Much like the folding Zeiss-Ikon Contessa.

Sherrie,

 

It sounds like you have a sizzling choice. Except, for its tiny viewfinder and the possibility of having to replace the bellows, I'd prefer the Record III, because of the Synchro-Compur with X-synch, the simpilicity of its uncoupled range finder and accessory shoe atop of the viewfinder. Once, the Record III has been restored, it will provide decades of splendid service.

 

On the other hand, the Super Ikonta C was a much more upscale camera during its day. It is, as mentioned, superbly engineered, with leather bellows and the range finder uses a prism rather than a front surface mirror. This camera simply has more classic charm than any Agfa folder, with the exception being the hard to find Super Isolette.

 

Since, you like to work on your own cameras, the Agfa is a much simpler to get in order with a miniumum of tools. The front cell of the lens and the range finder adjusting dial are both lubed with the infamous Agfa green grease. Every bit of it will need to be removed and replaced with a modern grease. The dial of the range finder can be removed to allow it to soak in Rosinol before cleaning. This is done after removing the range finder from the to of the camera, which allows you to remove an adjuster stop at the mirror side of the range finder.

 

I've been meaning since Wednesday to try to get a hold of the gentleman at Western Bellows to see if he is still in business and what does he charges for a set of bellows. I'll try to get back with the list.

 

If possible, try to look directly at a nearby light bulb with from the back of the camera with the shutter open. Go with the camera that has the least number of lens defects. Any haze on the rear doublet will show itself immediately with this test.

 

Cheers,

I'd once read somewhere that the bellows used on the Agfa Record III's w/ Solinar lens as well as the Super Isolettes were genuine leather, while the others (as we know) were not. I suppose that leather bellows would be much less prone to light leaks.

 

Since I unfortunately don't own either of these beauties, I can't confirm or deny whether this is true. But it might be worth a little more investigation, as an Agfa Record with leather bellows would probably be less inclined to need bellows replacement.

Just be aware that there may be a large quality gap between your P67 and the folders as borne out by <a href=http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html>lens tests.</a> Not to say that the folders are all poor, but film flatness, focusing errors and camera shake can hurt the results beyond the ability of the bigger neg to compensate completely.<p>That said, I have a 2.8E Rollei and still want a folder!

Hello-

 

I have an Agfa Record III (new bellows from Jurgen Kreckel-$65-US) and a Super Ikonta IV with Tessar and a Pentax 67. My experience: All Agfa folders I have bought save one needed replacement bellows and freeing of focusing ring. Jurgen can do this for you but expect to pay $100+. The contrast is slightly better with the Ikonta in black and white and both do color ok. If I were buying only one folder, I would buy a post-war Ikonta (coated lenses). The super Ikonta has a coupled finder, the Record III does not. BIG difference in handling IMHO. Neither will give consistently focused shots like the 67 and neither will give good close-ups. Having said all this I like and use both. A 6 X 9 folder is great scenic camera to travel with because at infinity the focus is fine. I feel the color on the 67 is better.

 

The nice thing about these is if you buy well and decide you prefer one over the other, you can probably sell them for pretty close to what you paid. Records with Solinars are strong on E*ay now. Best of light.

 

Steve