Zeiss Sonnar 50mm lens in LTM

I have seen a Zeiss Sonnar 50mm lens in Leica screw mount. Is such a

lens custom adapted or did Zeiss make a limited number of such

lenses? Since I have your attention (hopefully), how "good" is the

Sonnar 50mm lens compared to same vintage Leitz Summicron and is

there a published comparison online?

Hello,

 

I have a 111a with uncoated sonnar. I love the look, it gives it has great bokeh. I also gives a really nice old feel to the photo. that I assume is the uncoated lens aspect. I have not shot that much thru it for I only got it recently but, what I have shot that has come out (most lost to my own exposer stupidity) really cool.

 

I have not shot much color thru it. The roll that I did, I did not care for but I will try again this weekend.

 

Skinny

Shoot some color film at wide aperture with a Sonnar, you may like. Mine (Contax mount) was sold to me as an "enlarger lens" it has a scratch on the front element I don't know if it's better than a Summicron but it's like nothing else.

Skinny are you sure your sonnar is uncoated ? Zeiss introduced single coating before the WWII.

Most of the Zeiss LTM lenses that I've seen originated from East Germany. I've seen only one West German Sonnar for the Leica.

 

As far as I know, the only Carl Zeiss lens for the Leica M was the Hologon, and that supposedly was from leftover stock from the Contarex Hologon.

 

I have an East German Jena Sonnar (collapsible) in LTM. It's in a lightweight aluminum mount. Performance is similar to the prewar uncoated Sonnar.

Zeiss made a few small runs of the 1.5/50 Sonnar in LTM mount. I believe one batch of

300 was made during the war and others here and there. After the war the East German

branch of Zeiss also made some. You go to be careful these days. There are a lot of fake

Sonnars out there, made in Russia.

 

The 1.5/50 Sonnar was the benchmark in it's focal lenght until the mid fifties, when the 2/

50 Summicron and Nikons finally beat it. It still is a very good lens. Very sharp with lots of

contrast. You can get it cleaned at www.zeisscameras.com

 

Feli

The one I am referring is a Zeiss Jena 5cm 2.0 Sonnar lens collapsible.

Oddly enough the 1.5/50 is a better performer than the 2/50. Usually it's the other way

around. In any case Zeiss didn't make a lot of dogs. It's probably a cut above the average

2/50 of it's day.

Email the chap at www.zeisscameras.com for more info.

 

 

feli

How can I tell whether the lens is Russian amde or made in Germany?

Are there any clues to look for?

Raid,

 

Marc Small is the expert on that lens' history. A while back he spent

a small fortune to have one restored by Grimes.

 

Jerry

If it's a collapsible Sonnar, then most likely it was either 1 of the small # made by CZJ during WWII (@ the behest of the military), in which case it should be "T" coated, or it was custom modified before, during, or after WWII, as neither the E. German nor W. German branches of Zeiss produced collapsible Sonnars @ all following the war (in Contax RF or LTM). Remember, most Leitz glass didn't equal or surpass their Zeiss competition until the mid-1950s to early 1960s, when the diffusion of coating technology enabled the Summicron & Summilux designs to be introduced (hence Cartier-Bresson's use of a 50/1.5 Sonnar in LTM for much of the period of Zeiss superiority).

 

---------------------

 

"The one I am referring is a Zeiss Jena 5cm 2.0 Sonnar lens collapsible."

If you want to contact Marc James Small, you might want to drop by the Zeiss Ikon Collectors Group forum (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZICG/) & post your questions there.

I am unable to collapse the lens. Maybe it is not collapsible. I am bothered that there is no "Germany" anywhere on the lens. Is there a check to see whether it is a Russian copy? I know it's an old lens, but it does not look as nicely made as older Leitz lenses. Russian copies have often rough finish. This one is numbered 2232XXX.

I have placed a pic of this lens in my portfolio on photo.net. Maybe this will help. Please take a look at it and tell me your opinion. Did I get a lousy copy or an old Jena made lens?<div></div>

Raid, i suggest you go to the russian forum at beststuff.com -

there are definitely some experts there who will ID the lens. It

looks good to me, though. I THINK that those little 'ears' only

appeared on Zorki versions of 'Zeiss' lenses - and no one would

use a Zorki to make a fake, as they're nearly as expensive as

Zeiss ones (in fact, I've seen fakes of Zorkis on ePay

recently)...<p>

Raid,

 

This looks to me to be a prewar lens. Several reasons: First, it's not coated. Next, it's marked in centimeters, rather than millimeters. Third, it looks nearly identical to my own prewar collapsible Sonnars for the Contax.

 

Next, your lens carries a seven-digit serial number. Very close to my lenses: 2398727 and 2227279.

 

The "ears" on the aperture ring are paced the same as on all of my Sonnars from that time.

 

Is the lens heavy? Is it roughly the same weight as a Summitar? If so, then it's in a chrome mount, not aluminum, another tipoff that it's a prewar lens.

 

Now, it's tough to say whether it's a custom made lens. I would look at the distance scale engravings and see if the engraving seems like it was done in a factory or by a very careful workman.

 

I would expect this lens to perform identically to my own Sonnars, because it is in fact the same lens. Good wide open and gets better when closed down. Overall, a decent performer.

Thanks for all the input.

 

Mike, the distance scale is very small and looks professionally done. I doubt that it was done by an individual for this lens only. The lens has "weight" to it. Its shape is like a collapsible summicron but I don't know how to collapse it. There is some oil on the parture blades and I will get it cleaned. I may check with the suggested site for Russian lense and cameras.

 

I am glad that some of you think it's a good performer (for its time).

Hello Raid,

 

thank's for the picture.

Well,Zeiss Sonnar 5cm lenses in LTM are very, very rare.

Everybody liked and surched, but the the minimum genuine Zeiss Sonnar in LTM open the chance for fakes, specialy from a fake manfakture in poland.The faked lenses was russian Jupiter 8 lenses to relabeled

in Zeiss Sonnar lenses.

 

Your pre-war Zeiss lens nr. are authentic, but is possible a fake.

1.)

Zeiss Sonnar 5cm lenses in LTM don't build in the time of your lens number.

2.)

Zeiss Sonnar lenses in LTM the minimal quantity are T coated.

3.)

Zeiss Sonnar lenses in LTM to build the lens body in heavy brass.

4.)

On your lens the letter: "cm" are wrong, the engraving cm is to littel bit small for a genuine Zeiss Sonnar.

 

Your lens don't too a genuine Zeiss from East Germany.

This lenses numbers beginning up on 3 millions, and the are all coated.

 

You have an collapsible faked Zeiss Sonnar lens ?

I can concratualation, is to fake of a earlyer rare russian ZK lenses to build in russia with genuine Zeiss machines and help of Zeiss workers. The lens quality the same like the genuine Zeiss 5cm in LTM.

 

You have an rigid Zeiss Sonnar 5cm lens ?

 

Sorry don't worry is an quilty faked lens, but 6 elements in 3 groups like the russian Jupiter 8 and the quality don't lausy .

 

 

You will looking about picture quality to Zeiss Sonnar in LTM ?

Please buy an book of Photographer Henry Cartier-Bresson, the maked pictures with Leica LTM and with the genuine Zeiss Sonnar 5cm lens.

 

Hope I can help a littel bit.

peter a expert from Germany

Raid:

 

Looks like a custom-converted pre-WWII collapsible 5cm/2 Sonnar to me (I have several in Contax RF mount). As I pointed out earlier, the few lenses actually converted by CZJ during WWII were usually "T" coated & are of lightweight aluminum alloy construction; the serial # also pre-dates the wartime production. In his book "Non-Leitz Leica Thread-Mount Lenses," Marc James Small states: "For the most part, [the wartime] lenses have serial numbers in the 2,6xx,xxx to 2,8xx,xxx range, are 'T'-coated & marked, & all are inscribed 'Carl Zeiss Jena.'" Again, Zeiss lenses in this period were generally considered to be superior to their Leitz competition, so much so that many photographers during the 1930s-1950s paid to have Contax RF mount lenses converted to LTM. Bottom line: it's a good lens & should produce good results for you (i.e., you don't have to be HC-B to enjoy it!). Below is an example taken w/a collapsible 5cm/2 Sonnar (c.1936), f/2.8 @ 1/50th sec. on Tri-X. At full frame, you can easily make out the pattern on the irises of her eyes.

 

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<img src="http://not.contaxg.com/files/0017/41617-06Jenn_St.Ex.jpg">

 

</center>

I should add that based on the pictures in Mr. Small's book, the distance scale & mount on your Sonnar is not the same as that on an actual WWII Zeiss LTM Sonnar. However, I would disagree w/"Peter 4711" in that the lettering & typeface on the bezel appears to be genuine (although it wouldn't be too hard to fake if someone really wanted to) as compared to a couple of my pre-WWII collapsibles that I have right in front of me.

Was I "cheated" when I spent $212 plus shipping for the lens, which was marked as "very, very rare" and there was no mentioning of it being possibly a Russian mad elens? Basically, I need to decide whether to keep this lens as a good buy for good use or should I return this lens to the seller as "not being genuine". Advise me.

Here are three more pics of the lens.<div></div>

More pics ... larger ones :-)<div></div>

this one too<div></div>

Here is a pic of the Zeiss Jena 5cm Rigid Sonnar lens.