brit Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Hi I am asking here as I think lots will be known about ageing lenses. I have bought on 7 days conditional acceptance a Zeiss Planar 50mm 1.7 . Looking directly through the glass it does seem in very good condition but view the transmitted light from an angle and I see this horrid looking mess.These shots were taken with the lens hand held to the light and the camera also hand held....they are not great quality with all that shake but they do show these conditions I have written about. There seems to be a general discolouration about the internal surface. I think this is called either "haze" or "fungus"? For now I will call it haze. The haziness seems to be absent in places but apparently in a discernable pattern. There are also other marks that are very narrow...almost like something has scratched the haze away. <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.tinypic.com/3310y2s.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a> <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i32.tinypic.com/egpyz4.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a> I have looked similarly at my Nikon E lenses (50mm and 28mm) and a Canon 50mm. Yes this method of inspection shows up dust amazingly but even these old lenses are totally freee from anything like I have seen in the Zeiss. I'm really wanting to know what these marks are and any advice regarding this lenses "mint" description. I think I should return it even though these problems can only really be seen when looking from a sideways angle. What do you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morthcam Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 That's not mint, that's crap -- send it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 That lens is only good good for use as a paperweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn_mabbutt Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Looks like fungus to me. I've never seen the results personally, but if fungus has gone on long enough it releases an acid that can etch the glass - not sure what that looks like exactly, but that may be it, or maybe someone's attempt to pick off the fungus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich815 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 What did you pay for it? Is it the AE or MM version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brit Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Hi Thank you all so very much fot your feedback on this. All the lenses I have bought previously have been inspected by myself prior to purchase. And I have never seen anything like this before so thank you for putting me in the picture. This was an ebay item and I will email the seller tonight just to get the ball rolling on returning it. Rich I paid 69 UKpounds and is the MM. This whole thing is even more perplexing when I tell you the seller is aparently a classic camera vendor with very good feedback! Hum...go figure. I will update this thread on the outcome - see where your help brings me. Thanks all. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich815 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Yes, at that price I'd return it. If it was something under $80 USD (which I have seen the AE ones go for, and the MM's not too much more) I was going to suggest shooting with it to see if you found the issues had any effect, which you may not. And then it might not have been worth the trouble of the return. I have some lenses which look surprisingly poor and awful when held to the light like that but which perform beautifully. But then again that clearly is NOT mint! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff bishop Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 This is the downside of ebay. Everything is 'Mint' or 'Minty.' Totally subjective. If you press the sellers you'll hear, "It looks good for it's age." That's their kind of 'mint.' As I've always understood it, "Mint" was how it looked when the original owner opened the box the very first time. Looking like it's never been touched and never used. I'd send it back. In the future, if someone says "mint" be sure at ask them how they define "mint." This will make sure you're on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_marks6 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 You have a seven day return option so just return it and send some photos. Some sellers are not technicians and just don't know how to evaluate the condition of a vintage lens and using words like mint and such should not be used since they are meaningless. I appreciate those who say that the camera or lens is vintage and is not like a lens that one would expect in a new lens, and that it is sold as-is but that there is a return option. These are not evil people! If I sell something I try to describe the item in specific terms and not use generalities like mint. I recently bought a couple of items that were about 50 years old and they didn't work properly, but, the sellers were antique dealers and they were up-front that they had no clue about cameras, so I now have a few $10 cameras to practice repairs on. I do think that terms like mint, minty, excellent +++, or ++, or +, or optically good, or cosmetically challenged are all meaningless and should never be used. Again, I appreciate it when someone is totally direct and just says that it is an old lens and is sold as-is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I have to disagree with Ron about it "only being good as a paperweight". It could also be used as a "doorstop". Return it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven_moseley1 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Hi, I have spent the last six years buying and selling many Contax/Zeiss items on evilbay and would make the following comments: 1. Jeff is entirely right. A 'mint' item should be absolutely AS NEW in ALL repects and he is also correct in saying that many people, both ebayers AND some dealers only look at the exterior optics and if they have no marks, they will describe the whole lens as 'mint' which is totally wrong and very misleading. 2. Brian..why are you paying a rather high price of 69 GBP for a 50/1.7 MM on ebay anyway? You can easily get these in the same condition AND price, WITH a warranty from any one of several UK dealers...take a look right now at Ffordes website..they always have several of the 50/1.7. I am amazed why so many ebay buyers actually pay MORE on ebay than they could than buying from a reputable dealer...astonishing! cheers Steve.M. (UK) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven_moseley1 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Hi, I have spent the last six years buying and selling many Contax/Zeiss items on evilbay and would make the following comments: 1. Jeff is entirely right. A 'mint' item should be absolutely AS NEW in ALL repects and he is also correct in saying that many people, both ebayers AND some dealers only look at the exterior optics and if they have no marks, they will describe the whole lens as 'mint' which is totally wrong and very misleading. 2. Brian..why are you paying a rather high price of 69 GBP for a 50/1.7 MM on ebay anyway? You can easily get these in the same condition AND price, WITH a warranty from any one of several UK dealers...take a look right now at Ffordes website..they always have several of the 50/1.7. I am amazed why so many ebay buyers actually pay MORE on ebay than they could than buying from a reputable dealer...astonishing! cheers Steve.M. (UK) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven_moseley1 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Hi, I have spent the last six years buying and selling many Contax/Zeiss items on evilbay and would make the following comments: 1. Jeff is entirely right. A 'mint' item should be absolutely AS NEW in ALL repects and he is also correct in saying that many people, both ebayers AND some dealers only look at the exterior optics and if they have no marks, they will describe the whole lens as 'mint' which is totally wrong and very misleading. 2. Brian..why are you paying a rather high price of 69 GBP for a 50/1.7 MM on ebay anyway? You can easily get these in the same condition AND price, WITH a warranty from any one of several UK dealers...take a look right now at Ffordes website..they always have several of the 50/1.7. I am amazed why so many ebay buyers actually pay MORE on ebay than they could than buying from a reputable dealer...astonishing! cheers Steve.M. (UK) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven_moseley1 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 ...the Norton 'phishing' filters are REALLY pissing me off lately...hence multiple posts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brit Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Hi Here is the sellers reply to me wanting to return the lens under their 7 days approval period. <p></P> <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.tinypic.com/2mbdzb.png" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brit Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 I do not have a good feeling about trying to legitimately deal with this seller considering his remarks above, the remarks on the auction http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280204258820&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=018 and the condition of this lens. I've never had a seller so outrightly refute the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brit Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Steve I didn't know about another outlet. Will give it a try when i get my money back...or should i say IF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex macphee Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I have three Zeiss P50 lenses, the 50/1.7 in both AE and MM versions, and the 50/1.4 AE. None of them, from any angle, shows the mess seen in these lenses. To my eye, this is not a dust problem, but some sort of film or foreign coating, not unlike fungus. I haven't bought from Contax2007 before, but they were on my list of tagged sellers (I collect and use Contax quite extensively), in case anything I'm looking for should turn up in their lists. Based on what you've shown, and their response, I'll certainly be reluctant to deal with them, and will know not to bid on any item auctioned by them. I echo the earlier remarks about reputable dealers, like ffordes. I have bought many CZ lenses and SLR bodies from them, with complete satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brit Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 Hi I have to admit when I posted the photographs I was a bit naughty and posted on two threads at the same time (sorry) because I wanted to form a consensus a.s.a.p. Anybody wondering about this seller might be beneficial for you to rewiew that one also.... http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Oo1l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_neumann1 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Hi, I have an old Nikkor lens (Non AI),28mm/2.8, which was in use over one year on a sailing ship without protection against humidity. I got it as a gift, because fungus with its typcial tree-structure crawled inside the lens from buttom towards the centre on one of the elements. If I close down to f/5.6 you cannot see any loss of quality. Brian, I think somebody tried to remove the fungus with mechanical force, and that is always a mistake because the damage increases as it occurs in the scratches which are visible in Your pictures of the lens state. In general, eave the fungus as it it is, put the lens in a dry place, that is all you can do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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