Zeiss Ikon/Ikonta and other buying tips

I am a returning student in the 30-40 year old bracket interested in

medium format photography. I have read most of the "what should I

buy?" posts and my head is reeling. I have a limited budget ($100-

150) with a family to feed while in school. I am tracking a couple

of cameras on that evil auction site, but have been burned there

before. I am looking at a rolleicord, Ikonta, kiev, and a couple of

others. I am also looking at some large format stuff but I like the

idea of medium format. I hike quite a bit so weight is a bit of an

issue but not that important. I use black and white film and play

with nature photography almost exclusively with a few shots of family

thrown in. My last major concern is that I will be able to get a

working camera not something to fix up or send off(I already have to

do this with my 35mm). If I do send something off, such as the

Ikonta, are there people qualified to work on the cameras? Are there

manuals for those cameras? And, even though I am poor, I would like

to have some fun with medium format. That means a reasonable camera

that would allow me to buy lots of film. Any hints, tips, buying

suggestions, cameras for sale, etc?

 

Thank you in advance. I know this type of question is posted here

quite often and that I am just going to have to jump in there and

buy , but I did read posts for about four hours already and would

still like to glean some wisdom from people who know.

Mike

I have both a Super Ikonta A (6x9)and a super Ikonta B (6x6) and both are great cameras,but they were both more than your spending limit.I also have a Yashicamat with the yashinon lens on it. It's a very sharp lens with good contrast.They sell on Ebay for under a $100.00 and with the other $50. if it needed it you could get it a CLA. This camera does not have the name value of a Hassy,RZ,Minolta,Rollei,and I have owned all those cameras ,but as a good camera with a great lens it's hard to beat. I hope this helps.

There have been a lot of posts over the years regarding medium format folders like Zeiss Ikon's various Ikontas (worth searching the archives). Here's a recent 1:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008eSI

 

I've never looked specifically for an Ikonta, only Super Ikontas, but you can probably get 1 on eBay for $150 or less, depending on model, lens, etc. Raising your price limit by $100 or so would open up many possibilities, but that sounds like it's out of your control.

 

Yes, there are certainly people out there who are qualified to work on old cameras like an Ikonta (again, search the archives for recommendations), but you may end up paying around $150 just to get something fixed or just cleaned, lubricated, & adjusted ("CLAed").

With that budget, you may want to consider one of the Russian folders, such as an Iskra (6x6) or Moskva 5 (6x9 and 6x6 with mask). You should be able to get good ones of either for under $100, which would leave (almost) enough for a CLA if required. Both have coupled range-finders, though the Iskra has a combined rangefinder/"compose finder", whereas on the Moskva they are separate. Both have very good lenses.

 

With the Iskra, make sure you get one that is original, and has not had a red-window installed.

 

You could take a look this site - http://www.fedka.com/Frames/Main_Frame.htm - he seems to have a good reputation. Spend a bit more, but be sure of getting a good camera.

 

I can't speak for TLRs, but if your budget is limited, don't look at the ones that are popular with collectors, go for a good user marque. The Yashicas always get good comments. You may want to look at the Czech Meopta line, these can do 120 and 35mm film with an adapter, and can be had for ~$60.

 

Read over on the classic camera forum, and ask there too.

 

Hope this helps, and good luck!

You might want to look at the seller certo6's offerings on eB*y. He sells a lot of folders that he's already CLA'd. You might look for an Agfa or non-premium brand that will still give nice results stopped down.

As A hiker, I think carrying a TLR is like carrying two cameras.

<p>Unless you wish to experiment with the Russian Iskra, the only Ikontas in your price range are those with a Novar lens or one with a Tessar and no range finder.   For about a $100, you may find a Super Ikonta B, with an uncoated Tessar and a Compur Rapid, but it will need a full CLA.   A Super Ikonta B is one that it would probably be helpful to have an owner's manual from one of the many websites that sell reproductions.</p>

 

<p>95% of the vintage cameras up for auction on the large auction site need a CLA.   I did manage to find a pristine Super Ikonta IV off of eBuy to go with my two cherished Agfa folders.. &nbsp It ran me a couple of hundred bucks and didn't need an immediate service to shoot with.   I did communicate with owner.   It turned out that he had bought, but never quite got the hang of of using a folder, which in this case probably meant that he prefered his Rolleiflex fitted with a Planar.</p>

 

<p>If you have your sights set on a Zeiss-Ikon folder, my advice is to start with an Ikonta with a Tessar, but minus the rangefinder.   These are generally easier to get back in service.   David Richert has an excellent web site with regards to servicing the Ikonta line.   See <a href="http://www.davidrichert.com/toc.htm" target="_blank" class="slink">http://www.davidrichert.com/toc.htm</a>.</p>

 

<p>No offense to anyone, but TLR's like the Rolleicord, Minolta Autocord and early Yashicamats offer much more bang for the buck than a folder.   For example, I picked up a Rolleicord V in cosmetically mint condition at a yard sale.   It was well under your lower price range, even after cleaning up the shutter, buying a flash bracket and installing a brighter viewfinder screen.</p>

 

<p>The upside with a TLR is you get automatic film winding, a much larger viewfinder to compose with, unit versus front cell focusing, and in some cases parallax correction.   The only downside, a TLR is not pocketable and really needs a small camera bag for it and some accessories.</p>

To add to what Charles said, I can fit a folder with a lens hood, a couple of filters, a spare roll or two of film and a Gossen Digisix meter into a small unobtrusive belt pouch. &nbsp It's not a Rollei 35 S kit, but its about 1/3 of the bulk the Rolleicord kit.

Ikontas that have X sinc and are in useable condition with bellows that don't leak light compete with new cameras in pricing sometimes more. I purchased one on Ebay for $50 on a buy it now that lists in the price guides at $1200.

 

Within 30 minutes I got a frantic Email begging me to let him out of the deal (which I did) because he had meant to put in a starting bid of $50 not a Buy it now.

 

I had three Ikontas that I built into two working ones. I kept the best one and got over $250 in trade on another camera for the beater.

 

Even if you get one that looks great, you could have a bad mirror in the rangefinder and it would cost more than your budjet to fix.

 

You may be better off looking at new camera like the Seagull $139 brand new with warranty.

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=212840&is=USA

<p>Wow a folder worth $1200! It must have been a Voigtländer Bessa II with an APO Lanthar.</p>

 

<p>In case you want to more about Agfa Isolette series and their clones which wear the Ansco trademark, I do have a web page on them. It's a slow loader, so be patient.</p>

 

<p><a href="http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/AnscAgfa.html" target="_blank" class="slink">http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/AnscAgfa.html</a></p>

The post war 6x9 Super Ikontas of the 1950's have coated Tessars which are superb and much better lenses than the pre war ones. Zeiss of Jena continued building the Ikonta after the war under the name Ercona II. They can be found on ebay quit regulary for about $100. I have one and color slides are tak sharp and have true color rendering. Overall they are better build than the Russian copies.

Before commiting to something on ebay, comapre it to what KEH.com has. In many cases, KEH will beat the price. And, KEH has an outstanding reputation and 14 day return policy, unlike most of ebay. The cheapest place to get old cameras is goodwill - they often have no idea what an MF camera is.

 

I don't have any experience with folders so you won't see any of that here. I recommend getting a TLR. Some Rolleiflex's come in at just under 150. Some Mamiya TLRs come in at under 150, and they can have interchangable lenses, for when you want to expand later. Of course, Yashicas are under 100.

 

For an unreasonable camera, you could get a Holga or Woca. They're about twenty bucks. I wouldn't go with the new seagull suggestion, as seagulls arn't worth that much money new. Maybe a used one for around the price of a holga. Even as I type, there are Lubitels almost about to be sold on ebay for ten bucks. Even if its not a spectacular camera, ten bucks is pretty cheap. Theres a Voigtlander TLR going for 25 bucks. As you can see, you have a lot of options for under 100, but none of them are spectacular. You can either dig deep in your pockets and get an older mamiya TLR or rolleiflex, which are the best TLRs and their image quality is comparable to a MF SLR, you can compromise and get a Yashica, which I understand is a decent camera, or you can really scrape the bottom and buy a 20 dollar camera or two. Or you could get a folder.

 

Good luck!

There's almost nothing I haven't had at some point or another over 30 years. My advice, unless spending mucho dollars for repairs, overhauls and CLA doesn't bother you, get new. If it were me, I would get a Kiev 60 from a reputable dealer - terrific picture quality for minimal dollars, and actually very sturdy, and very manual - all manual in fact. A TLR would not be my recommendation because you're stuck with just the one focal length, and most old TLR viewfinders are pretty dark.

BTW, forgot to add,

 

Old medium format folders are nice, but they have a weak point that is the main reason they died out: the use a flexible bellows.

Unequivocally, get a TLR. In your price range, you will not do better than a TLR. Any Yashica with a Yashinon lens will do (e.g., Yashica D, Yashicamat, etc.). Just make sure the taking lens is totally clear and the shutter functions properly, etc. You might even find an Autocord in that range. But stay away from folders (I know, there are a lot of enthusiasts here in this thread). Too many potential problems. Plus, getting something with a coupled rangefinder (or even a coupled one) will likely be out of your price range. Get a TLR. Folders are a novelty item. Your money is much, much better spent in an TLR.

A very nice camera is the Ikonta 521/16. Look for the Tessar lens, usually uncoated. It takes 12 6x6 shots per 120 roll. It's zone focus, so you must guess.

 

Moving on down the line, you could look for a 6x4.5 Ikonta with Tessar that gives 16 shots per roll or a nice 520/2 6x9 Ikonta with a Tessar lens.

 

If you can find a good deal on the "Mess" 524/16 6x6 Ikonta, you'll get an uncoupled rangefinder and one of the sharpest Tessars you can get for your money.

 

Other possibilities include an Agfa Isolette III with the Solinar and uncoupled rangefinder, a Kodak/Nagel Duo Six-20 with the Kodak Anastigmat lens (very sharp) though you must respool 620 or a Rolleicord with the Xenar lens. If you get lucky and find a Rolleiflex for $150 or less. grab it.

 

Best of luck in your search.

Mike,

 

Folders died out for the simple reason they were no longer the only game in town for the serious amateur photographer on a limited budget. Before the rise of popularity of 35mm film, they were the convenient and easy to carry cameras of their time.

 

Prior to 1950, 135 film was still new and there were not that many 35mm offerings which were that good for under $60. By the mid 1950's the market had changed and most German manufacturers were offering a range of low cost to moderately priced 35mm cameras. Medium format folders sale plummeted.

 

With regards those amateurs with professional intentions, by the late 1950's there were by that time more than couple of offerings from TLR offerings from Japan. They were relatively inexpensive for their time. For example, a premium medium format folder such as the Agfa Super Isolette sold for a $119. It was a bit cheaper than the Rolleicord V which sold for $134.50. Compare this to the 1958 retail price for the original Yashicamat which was $79.95 and this wasn't Yashica's least expensive TLR.

 

The downside most is Japanese TLR's of the period didn't quite match the materials or the fit and finish of the Rolleis.

 

With that last thought, nearly all of the Japanese TLR's are by now 40 years old, weren't built to level of the Rolleis and can benefit from a CLA. Shutters get sticky just like a folder. Focus gears can get stiff. In the case of the Yashicamat its film advance gears can be worn out making the camera a paperweight. In short, whoever thinks that a TLR cannot be problematic is dreaming. TLR's also need to be serviced.

 

That said, I use both folders and a TLR. In my case the Rolleicord V, which has very simple film advance mechanism, which requires the photographer to manually tension the shutter before each exposure. All of the above really benefited from a CLA. So, which ever vintage camera you decide on, plan on a CLA.

"With that last thought, nearly all of the Japanese TLR's are by now 40 years old, weren't built to level of the Rolleis and can benefit from a CLA. Shutters get sticky just like a folder. Focus gears can get stiff. In the case of the Yashicamat its film advance gears can be worn out making the camera a paperweight. In short, whoever thinks that a TLR cannot be problematic is dreaming. TLR's also need to be serviced."

 

I only know mamiya TLRs, so that's what I'm going to be talking about. Mamiya manufactured TLRs from 1948 till 1995. The earliest TLRs were named "mamiyaflex" and are in fact older than forty years. However, everything from the C2 through the C330s is less than forty years old. You can get a late run C220f thats less than 10 years old. In general, if you get C220 or C330, it'll be 20 years old or less. I don't know anything about folders, but I can't imagine that folders could be in general younger than Mamiya TLRs.

 

The Mamiya TLRs are well manufactured, and compared to the Rolleiflex I used, easier to use and felt sturdier. Of course any camera can be problematic, but TLRs are very simple cameras. Theres no mirror, the shutter is in the lens, the winding system is simple, and there's no attempt at TTL or any electronics at all. And finally, since its a modular system, any thing that breaks can be swapped out - body, lens, finder... and swapping them can be a lot cheaper than a total camera CLA.

Actually Terry the Mamiyas surpassed the Rollei design in more than a couple areas. They were pro-grade all the way. Hence, I wrote "nearly all". Do you do much hiking with your Mamiya TLR? Also, don't let any of the "Chicken littles" know that there are bellows on a couple of these pro-grade TLR's. They may panic. :-)