Yellowstone + other ?s from the that Aussie

Thanks for all the advice, it looks like you will make a half decent pseudo Nature photographer out of me. I will still drive to Cleveland, to meet my friend and visit the rock�n�roll hall of fame. (I am a rock photographer with an interest in nature-landscape photography).

<p>

I will take the advice and camp overnight, in some of the national parks. (Olympic, Yellowstone, Grand Teton, Grand Canyon (North Rim) and possibly others), probably during an two day hikes. I aim to travel light, especially when hiking, (minor shoulder problem courtsey of a motorcycle accident) and will eat cold However, I am use to a warm southern Californian climate (we had our coldest day in recorded history (100 years) last month when it fell to 32F) and I have not be camping for a few years. So any advice would be appreciated. I presume Yellowstone in late September will be the coldest I will get on the trip. So what is the minimum equipment, necessary to survive?

<p>

One thing that does concern me a little, is the likelihood of unsavoury encounter with a bear, seeing I will be hiking alone. I know bison have injured more people in Yellowstone than any other animals. From the posting here, rutting moose and bison can dangerous but predictable if you keep your eyes open, watch for the signs and keep your distance. Bears seem more unpredictable, I know a good book on bear safety (Stephen Herrero's "Bear Attacks - Their Cause and Prevention") has been recommended, unfortunately the chances of finding a copy in Australia are remote. So should I be concerned or not? Should I try and find a copy of the book or can somebody point me to a source of information on the web?

<p>

In my previous question, I was trying to work out the amount of film I am likely to use on this trip. In a round about way, I suggested one to two 36 exp rolls per day on the road and three to six rolls in a National Park. Five rolls per day will probably cover the landscape photography for a full day in most National Parks and another couple of rolls for a significant wildlife encounter. Which means:

1 roll per day on the road.

3 rolls for a half day in a National Park or other area of significance.

5 rolls for a full day of in National Park.

plus 10 rolls for wildlife encounters.

Does 100 rolls in 35 days sound excessive or am I underestimating my needs.

<p>

Thanks

<p>

Nick

Camping in Yellowstone in Late September would require a three season tent and a 20F degree down sleeping bag. (I spec. down because in my experience the synthetic bags aren't as warm, even the ones that are rated at the same temperature) If you absolutely want to be safe go with a 0 degree bag, but unless its snowing heavily it doesn't get that cold. When I was there, the mornings were frosty, but the days themselves were warm and gorgeous.

<p>

Don't worry about bear attacks. You're more likely to get killed driving to Yellowstone than to be eaten by a bear. If you're really concerned, ask at the ranger station (where you'll have to go if you want to camp in the backcountry anyway --- highly recommended!) and they'll show you a video tape and give you a pamphlet.

<p>

As for how much film is enough, how would anyone know better than you? I find myself shooting 2-3 rolls a day in a National Park. Now that I've seen the results, I think I should have shot more in some spots. But hindsight is always 20/20!

Nick,

<p>

I spent 7 days in Yellowstone last year and shot 10 rolls of film. I could have shot more though. Yellowstone is one of the most amazing places on earth and since you don't live here to enjoy it I suggest you bring plenty of film. The national parks also do a good job at providing film for the fools who didn't bring enough. I say fools because you'll pay over $10US for a roll of Elite II 100 (36 exp.). Have fun, you will love it there!

<p>

Bill

<P>100 rolls for 35 days sounds like a good start. If I were you I'd have 60 rolls (a mix of Velvia, Sensia II 100, and Super G Plus 400) in an ice cooler when I left San Francisco. The cooler you can pick up at any hardware store or drugstore. Get the film at Gassers when you buy that tripod.

<P>If you start to run low, head toward a big city or possibly phone in an order with B&H and have them send it FedEx Two-Day to your friend's place in Cleveland (just make sure they know to refrigerate your film when they get it).

<P>Many of the National Parks will drop to freezing at night in late September (including much of the Sierras in California). If you're camping out in the desert, remember that it too gets very cold at night.

Don't underestimate the possibility of cold weather in either Yellowstone or the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. The North Rim is over 8000 feet & gets cold, snowy & windy. That early in the fall you should get some color at various locations as well as moderate weather. But, one very cold night can be miserable. It is easier to cool off than to warm up, so plan for cold & be happy of you get a good indian summer.

Your timing will put you in Yellowstone at the Elk photo migration. Keep your eyes open for the LLRuebird passing out catalogues. You might see a number of other long lens types there.

<p>

good luck

It hit 15 F when I was camping at Jenny Lake on the 17th or 18th of September last year, so all this advice about being prepared for cold is well-taken. I was, of course. Still was damned cold though :)

<p>

(Jenny Lake CG is in Teton NP)

<p>

I'm taking 120 rolls for five weeks (20 of those 120 are 120, though, not 35mm) this fall, at least, maybe 150. Since I'll be shooting a mix of stuff I'll come back with film, I want to be sure not to run out of any particular type on the road, i.e. E100SW or Velvia or whatever. I think you're in the ballpark with your 100 rolls, depends on how crazy you get.

About Bears,

Yes they can be unpredictable, and you will be able to find out safety information at the parks you will be visiting. Read the signs that are posted warning of recent bear sightings.

<p>

One thing I carry is an air horn, the kind that are used on sail boats.

If you want the bear to go away, they work great. However, most bear attacks happen around campsites when people are temporarly alone. When your walking around with carrying all your gear, with your extended tripod rustling through branches, you'll be making enough noise for bears to know your there.

<p>

My experiance is that bears won't bother you if you look like your busy doing something - like photographing bears - so don't concern yourself too much with being attacked.

Your film usage sounds fine. Depending on how "snap happy" you are

100 rolls in a month isn't unreasonable. You can buy film in

the parks of course (though your choice will be limited and the

price will be high by US mail order standards!). It's my

experience that the parks sell mainly (only?) Kodak film, and

tend to stock Kodachrome. Outside the park, You might find

Fujichrome (Sensia) available too. I bought Fujichrome in a

supermarket in Gardiner last time I visited Yellowstone!

<p>

Yellowstone isn't exactly swarming with bears. You can count yourself

lucky if you actually see one. The ranger station at Mammoth

(probably other places too)

keeps track of bear sightings and can advise you of any problem

areas. It will be quite easy to avoid areas with bears if you wish to

(though you can never be <em>absolutely</em> certain).

Nick,

Since you mentioned that you are going to Olympic. I would suggest that you don't miss out on Hurricane Ridge. The weather can be a bit dicey but the marmots,deer and wildflowers can be superb.There is a dirt road on the southwest end that is really nice since most tourists don't often go there. The last july i was up there it snowed.

Good luck w/ your trip

Late September in Yellowstone COULD cover your tent with 2 feet of snow. At the very least you will find nightime temperatures in the teens or lower. Yellowstone is very north and a sudden snowstorm is not to be unexpected!!!!!!! I have seen it snow in June, July, and August! Rare, but it does happen. September is 50/50. Go with a zero degree rated bag. It CAN happen. On the other hand the days could be 60 and the nights 20. That's warm for late September. Bears are everywhere but hard to see. Be very careful when hiking at dusk! Especially in Glacier National Park!!!! They have at least one bear incident EVERY year. Two Medicine is the place to watch for Grizzlies across the lake. Usually they are too far away to photograph. The only Grizzly you will ever have to worry about is the one you didn't see. They DON'T like surprises!!! My best friend was a ranger there. I used to visit often in the summer only. And their summer is SHORT.

<p>

As for the North Rim of the Grand Canyon it will not be as cold. Although it is over 8,000 feet, our winter storms usually don't come untill October. Cabins and tent sites are available at the North Rim. The price is reasonable and usually requires a reservation. Probably not at the end of September. There is some open (free) camping in areas 20 miles from the rim. This is open forest camping. No facilities near by. Bears are not a real problem.

<p>

As professional film will be hard to find along the way, a 100 rolls sounds reasonable. Burning 3 rolls a day in these places is EASY!!!!

I recently read an article in a hunting magazine about what to do in the unlikely event of a bear attack with recommendations on the best defense. The best recomendation (in lieu of a firearm) was pepper spray Mace. You can purchase this spray at most gun stores for a few dollars.

<p>

My personal experience with bears (in northern Canada) is: Black bears are normally not dangerous and will avoid you. Grizzlies are rare in Yellowstone and are confined to the high-back country. Most grizzly attacks are motivated by: Protecting young cubs, guarding a kill or by menstrating women (strange as it sounds). If you cross paths with a bear while hiking, stand still and talk to the bear in a steady voice, or back up very slowly, talking as you go. Do not under any circumstances run! This may trigger the bear's chase mechanism.

Whoa! There's no confirmed evidence that menstruating women are more prone to be attacked than at other times. This story apparently originates from the fact that one (or both?) of the women killed during "the night of the grizzily" in Glacier NP (famous night where two women were killed by predatory griz and two ends of the park, separate bears) was menstruating at the time.

<p>

Experts say there MAY be additional danger, but the data is inconclusive either way.

<p>

And the conditions which led to the attack I mention were horrible, as one of the bears had been harassing people for days, no warnings had been posted though there was some grapevine info regarding the bear hanging out, it had serious mouth or tooth problems (disease or injury, I forget which) which meant it was near starving, etc. A kind of situation which isn't tolerated today.

<p>

You are correct, though, in that most attacks by griz are in defense of cubs or a kill. Predation - as was the case in both attacks that horrible night in Glacier (both women were essentially eaten to death and vocalized their experience to the horror of their companions) - is relatively rare.

<p>

Which is why "playing dead" works. "Playing dead" causes the griz to think you're no longer a threat to cub or its ability to enjoy its kill. Obviously, "playing dead" doesn't work well if the griz is trying to eat you - rare, but does happen. Usually at night. Tent attacks at night are predatory, and one should fight, not play dead.

<p>

Hope this helps you enjoy your trip! :) :)

<p>

In Yellowstone, in September, the griz are mostly up high, as someone mentioned. Last year, though, I did see one from the road in Hayden Valley, on the other side of the Yellowstone, so you can't depend on them being up high. It was digging tubers diligently, and was very rolly-polly and large, a male in its prime which was going to have no problem surviving winter hibernation.

<p>

Along with an air gun, another thing to consider is pepper spray, which can be legally carried these days. It's very effective as a last-ditch defense though one should practice first. Especially if travelling alone. Just don't make the mistake of assuming that possession of such a last-ditch defense makes it safe to take stupid risks, like ignoring bear closure signs because you really want to see one.

<p>

It also works against moose. A full-time shooter I met last year at Yellowstone, who backpacks alone a lot in grizzly country in the Bob Marshall Wilderness (in the Swan Range of Montana) has only used his pepper spray once. He rescued an idiot tourist who'd provoked a rutty moose, which had pinned said idiot against a tree. After watching for a few minutes and realizing the guy wasn't going to get away, he dosed the bullwinkle, which dropped immediately to the ground, allowing the idiot to get away.

<p>

Anyway, just follow basic precautions in Yellowstone - follow the food rules, keep informed about bear sightings, etc - and don't worry. I agree with the advice to be a bit more wary in Glacier if you go there, bear encounters are more frequent there.

<p>

Since you're from Oz, I think the extra concentration one needs to, say, switch from driving on the right to driving on the left, especially in cities and intersections, as I had to when I visited your country, is perhaps roughly equivalent to the extra caution and care you should take in griz country.

<p>

I.E., it shouldn't stop you, but you should concentrate on doing the right thing, which in bear country mostly means not making your camp attractive to hungry bears, and not surprising mothers with cubs or bears guarding a kill (which is where noise comes in).

Thanks for all the advice, it has been invalueable.

It is only three days until I leave on the trip. I am getting excited now. I will try and post about the highlights when I get back.

<p>

I am not worried about bears. I mean as long as you take reasonable precautions you are unlikely to have a bad encounter or even an encounter. (Though I would like a good encounter, to see a bear at a distance and take a couple of shots (rolls)). The Yellowstone NPS site was informative, also reinforced what was said here. On the same day in August as the season first bear mauling, when a guy in the backcountry surprised a mother and cub and got some minor wounds in the process. One person died and six were seriously injured in a road accident in Yellowstone.

<p>

So I see some of you at Yellowstone I expect. Though how do you spot a fellow photo.netain are they the ones with the 600/4 under one arm and a laptop under the other :-)

<p>

Thanks for all the help.

<p>

Nick