Yellow softbox

I bought an used softbox and noticed (just at home) that the diffuser

is yellowish instead of pure white. Can it be useful or I just wasted

my money? Can I use any other material/fabric instead?

 

Thanks for advice,

 

Linda

You should try it out Linda. This is somthing that happens to a lot of softboxes as

they age. Many photographers, especially those that shoot a lot of people, like old

softboxes because they have yellowed--it takes some of the cool edge of the light. It

worth trying.

If you use negative film, you will not see much difference. If you use it with incandescent lights and negative film, it actually may help you match light color. Use it as a specialty item. Use it with a clear bulb strobe.

You could also use UV amber coated bulbs in your non-softbox lights; and a clear bulb in the softbox. This should nearly equalize the colorization between the lights.

 

For critical work, however, you purchase a new diffuser.

 

Diffusion material turns yellow after about 4 years.

You need to test Linda to see if you find it objctionable. Even if you are shooting with

colro negative film you are building in an over all color cast which makes it harder to

come back to a neutral color balance.<P><I> If you use it with incandescent lights

and negative film, it actually may help you match light color. </I><P> A completely

brain dead piece of advice that needs to be ignored. Why? Because if you are using

color negative film balanced for photographic daylight (in other words all color

negative film except for the following two emulsions: Kodak Portra 100T and Fuji

NPL) and using 3200K (Quartz Halogen) or 2700k (tungsten) your light will already be

heavily shifted to red /yellow with respect to the sensitivity of the film. essentially

putting a yellowish filter on the light will only make matters worse.

<I>Diffusion material turns yellow after about 4 years</I><P>That too is complete

nonsense. Some (generally cheaper -- like those used in Photoflex softboxes )

materials yellow faster, some materials (generally better quality -- like those used in

Chimera and Plume Wafer softboxes) slower, and some not at all) The amount of use

and exposure to diffferent air pollutants (like tobacco smoke) also can have a major

effect on whether or not a diffusion material "yellows".

2 more points. If you're shooting digital and this box is your only light source, just do a custom white balance. If you're shooting black and white film, either extend your developement, or increase exposure by a little, like bumping the iso down by 1/3. Modern black and white films are still less sensitive to red/yellow light, that's why their iso is supposed to be lowered when shooting under tungsten lights (per manufacturer's spec sheets). <p> As Ellis says, testing is the only way to know, whatever you do. I have an old Photoflex strip light that is 30 points yellow... never use it (for sale cheep!). <p>Whatever you do, don't use this box in tandum with another light, if you want the colors to be consistent throughout the image... t

Actually, yellowing is a slow process due to aging. Aging occurs dur to exposure to oxygen and UV. A softbox can be aged quickly by simply leaving in sunlight. Look at a white vinyl sun patio chair. The exact discoloration of the softbox, and I have 2 that are aged is not a pure cc yellow as the respondant above would have us believe. It looks to my eyes as a mixture of red and yellow: a light amber. Therefore, since the warmth of incand. light is a mixture of approx. 1 part red to 3 parts yellow, you are coming close to a match with the family of ambers. So, if you use this softbox to illuminate a person and an incandan. light nearby, these light sources will be in the nearby color neighborhood of one another. When you use color negative film, yellow red will be filtered out of both light sources and the result will be pleasing. According to my friends who own aged softboxes, the yellowing begins to become visible after 4 years around here. This has been my observation, also. My friends told me they replace theirs every 3 years. Now if your softbox turns amber after 6 years, then the aging process was different for you. So what. She just wants to know if she can use it for something. Of course you can. Just because people call it yellowing, doesn't mean it turns perfect cc yellow. It is filtering light to become a light amber. You can use it to warm subjects with. It is probably around a 300 degree warmth shift. Go get a color meter to measure it.

Ellis mis-interpreted me. I thought only of putting a clear flash in it, as I posted above that he "forgot" to read. A clear bulb refers to non-uv coated flash bulbs/tubes. Ellis doesn't politely ask for clarification, he simply lets the horse out of the gate. The difference between a clear bulb and a UV coated bulb may be only 200-300 degrees, which is likely the color amber of the softbox. Test it.

I said, "use it with a clear bulb strobe" and Ellis went on a tangent regarding tungsen lights. I made it clear that the light source of choice is a strobe. The color shift will likely go from 5500 degrees to about 5200 degrees. If you picture a person near incandes. light,, the two will either jive alittle, or the printer will filter out the 300 degrees of amber from the person AND THE INCANDES. LIGHT The incandesc. light becomes cooler, from 2900 degrees to 3200 degrees when the printer filters for the final prints from Portra. But test it with a Minolta color meter to know exact numbers. And yes, I do suggest Kodak Portra. I am surprised that Ellis missed this relevent film. He was somewhere else using examples that are unfavorable. Who wants that? I think you want good results, right?

Black and white film isn't going to change its sensitivity over 300 degrees. And also remember that some photographers prefer a amber light disc out of doors to warm skin. A "tan" is really a dark yellow (red). If you go too yellow (green) the person looks like they have jaundice. So, the amber can infer a tan.

<I>If you use it with incandescent lights and negative film, it actually may help you

match light color.</I><p><b> that is what I was responding to.</b>

"It" means the clear bulb strobe into the "yellowed" softbox. Th The softbox puts out "ambered light". This becomes about 5200 degrees, maybe less. The incand. light is a separate light, like in a living room. If you need clarification, ask for it.

Geez I hate to get into these kind of pissing matches but...<P>Timber wrote:<

I>"If you use negative film, you will not see much difference. If you use it with

incandescent lights and negative film, it actually may help you match light

color. "</I><P>Given the context ( a question about a softbox with a 'yellowish"

diffuser), the word "it" in this sentence can only be referring to the softbox with

the yellowish diffuser.<P> I have been reading his posts for a while now and

nearly every one confuses the hell out of me. I apologize for not being able to

read his mind, but I know from other people's comments both public and

private that I am not the only person with this problem. with Timber's postings.

Geez I hate to get into these kind of pissing matches but...<P>Timber wrote:<

I>"If you use negative film, you will not see much difference. If you use it with

incandescent lights and negative film, it actually may help you match light

color. "</I><P>Given the context ( a question about a softbox with a 'yellowish"

diffuser), the word "it" in this sentence can only be referring to the softbox with

the yellowish diffuser.<P> I have been reading his posts for a while now and

nearly every one confuses the hell out of me. I apologize for not being able to

read his mind, but I know from other people's comments both public and

private that I am not the only person with this problem. with Timber's postings.

Ellis didn't read my "clear tube strobe" reference. He didn't read me any where saying that you should put a tungsen light into a softbox; so Ellis invented this idea out of his imagination. Then Ellis proceed to argue against this position that he never read from me. Ellis then uses name calling to further make it all seem probable. But the fact is, as you can read above, I never sais to put tungsen into a softbox. I said to use a clear bulb strobe.

You know I have a pretty good and sometimes powerful imagination. But it is not so

powerful as Timber thinks it is. Once again, here is what you you wrote:<P><B>

. Timber ... , jan 29, 2004; 06:44 p.m.<P>

 

 

If you use negative film, you will not see much difference. <I>If you use it with

incandescent lights and negative film, it actually may help you match light color. </I>

Use it as a specialty item. Use it with a clear bulb strobe.</B><P>

You did not add the bit about a "clear bulb strobe" until after making the statement

which I have pointed out with italics.<P>Now if you did not make that statement I

am hallucinating. If you did make it and you don't want to acknowledge saying this,

fine, but you are still wrong. All I was trying to do was correct a muddle you appear to

have made. At this point in time I see no good reason in continuing to arguing the

point about whether you made this statement or did not. I think Linda has had her

question well answered.

That's just it. You failed to read the entire paragraph. Had you read the sentences that followed, and ask for clarification politely, you would have understood my message.

 

If you put a clear bulb flash into a yellowed softbox, then take a picture of a person in a living room or hotel lobby with the ambered softbox illuminating the subject and have incandescent lighting in the lobby illuminating the walls, the subject will be lit in character, in the same warm mode as the walls are.

 

Therefore, the yellowed softbox is a good tool for pictures where you want the subject to appear comfortable and warm surrounded by incandescent lighting.

 

Many wedding photographers would tell you to "shutter drag" for this warm effect. However, now that you have an "amber softbox" you can use it to your advantage in indoors pictures using strobe. It would be nice to have 2 ambered softboxes actually to do a complete main/fill job.

 

There are lots of yellowed softboxes sold on the auctions for about 1/3 the new price. Buying a replacement diffusor is cheap; but just don't expect it to stay white for a very, very, long time.

 

Use color negative film to be conservative; but try chrome film to see what the net effect is. You might have to add more amber filters to do the warming job more effectively.

 

Because I graduated from college, I learned to ask questions when I read or hear something that sounds illogical. Then, when I ask politely for clarification, rather than calling the person names, I still have the possibility of having a good relationship with the person later when they have finished their explanation.

Timber, why don't you read your postings before you submit them. Think about them and make sure you said everything you wanted so that you have less mistakes and don't have to post to the same thread 3 times in a matter of minutes trying to complete your thought.

I think that the reader should not add their imagination. If you don't see it put there in words, why make the assumption and 'let the horses out'? All he had to do was read the entire paragraph to find that I recommended using "clear bulb strobe". Why not ask what this means? Does he ask? Nope. No where did I say to put tungsen lights into a softbox. I think that readers need to ask for clarification if they do not understand something. I won't necessarily answer, because I have other things on my mind. But any reader can try. That is an invitation: use it. When I use the word "it", it may refer to several nouns. Take the time to write me to find out which. I cannot re-edit anything I post on this thread. This is the limitation of the programming. Because I usually use a public computer, I am limited to 15 minutes before the unit turns off. I have to get off in 2 minutes as it is. Take this into consideration whenever you need clarification. There are people waiting in line to take over this computer.

You could try correcting the color with 1" strips of blue filter like Rosco 3202 taped to the inside. This assumes you have a color temperature meter. Cheaper to buy new boxes.

 

As a previous poster suggested, avoid mixing this one with a box of a different vintage and probably different brands as well.

 

One good idea is that if you intend to use more than one softbox you should buy new boxes from the same manufacturer and replace them now and then as they age.

 

For the best color match the flash heads and power level should also be the same or you should be using one of the most stable packs to drive your heads.

 

Will Crockett has some good thoughts on this at www.smartshooter.com

I'll expand on an idea: Flash heads usually come with an option of a clear tube or a

amber coated tube. The amber coated tube filters out UV. This amber coating

decreases the color temperature about 300 degrees, it makes the light more warm

yellow.

 

This is what the yellowed softbox does to the light: filter it make it more warm. If

you put a CLEAR BULB into the softbox, and use other additional flash heads with

amber coated tubes in those other units for other uses in your set, you would be

creating a set of lights that have a similar color temperature, about 5200 degrees.

 

I am not saying here that the lights will match perfectly. Use a color temperature

meter to find out the color shift. But many jobs do not require exacting color

matches, especially when the color shift is so small. But you will have a family of

lights that can likely be used together for many indoor jobs.

 

Also, since a setting sun becomes a warmer light as it gets nearer the horizon (due to

atmospheric layers), you could use a warmer softbox on a person in this situation

sunset situation.

 

You could also use a warmer softbox when you have other lights that that are

bouncing off of "off-white" walls. Rarely are walls painted pure refrigerator white!

Most "white" walls are "warm white". Your "yellowed softbox" should be close to the

"warm white wall" color. You would be bouncing light off of warm white ceilings at

weddings, and pictures of people in architecture, such as hotel lobbies.

 

So, by purchasing a clear bulb for your flash head, the one that goes into the yellowed

softbox, you could avoid having to replace the diffusor--especially if you use color

negative film. You will have to work out the cost of the tube vs. the new diffusor.

 

The color negative film can accept small coloration shifts and give natural color in the

final print. The printer then determines the final coloration of the final print. Use a

professional lab to insure that they will take this additional care to make skin tones

look normal. On the other hand, you can also direct the printer to leave the warmth

in.

 

If you use this yellowed softbox with an amber coated tube, then you would have

about 4900 degrees which is slightly warmer than the above 5200 degrees: a lower

number is warmer light.

 

As Steve says, you could use this box with filters, and you could use it with a a filter,

but consider using it with an darker amber filter to create a fireside warm light. Think

of candle light situations you could light a couple in.

 

Get some sailcloth material, velcro tape, and stitch your own permanent solution. You

will then have a nice warm diffusor and a pure white one. Maybe West Marine sells

this material. If not, they are likely to know who does.

The problem with Steve's suggestion is that yellow is a subtractive color. If you put a

yellow filter AFTER the blue filter, you will get greenish light. Now, this may not be

very noticeable because we are not dealing with big coloration shifts....but why fool

with this light in this manner?

 

The blue filter should only be placed on the outside of the softbox. But this is more

expensive and looks loose.

 

Forget the blue filter, just use the softbox in "warm light" situations for the most

pleasing results.

okay, now I know you're an idiot. "The blue filter should only be placed on the outside of the softbox. "? Are you serious? That is unbelieveable advice from someone who obviously thinks of himself as an expert professional. <p>Filtering softboxes is a standard practice for anyone who needs accurate color or wants to light specific areas of a set with specific, non-neutral light. Standard practice is to tape or clip gels <i>inside</i> the box to the inner light baffle, or clip the gels to the support ribs of the softbox far enough off the head to effect the front panel uniformly and still allow air flow from the fan in the head. A gel on the outside of a box has the potential to create glare on the set, if another light strikes the gel's surface at the right (or wrong!) angle.<p>Also, advising someone with color balance issues to make their own softbox repairs with sailcloth from a Marine supply house is just wrong. This is not advice that a professional photographer should, or would give.<p>And if we need further proof that Tom Menegatos is correct when he says you need to read your own posts, what the heck is <i>this</i> supposed to mean?: <p>"<i>As Steve says, you could use this box with filters, and you could use it with a a filter, but consider using it with an darker amber filter to create a fireside warm light.</i><p><p>Huh? And what's that about "refrigerator white"? Is that some kind of industry standard? What industry? Appliance manufacturing? For someone who throws around a lot of numbers and claims to be an expert, you certainly have flexible terminology and vague standards. One time you suggest a color temp meter, but then say why bother, one time it will match "warm white" walls and another time it's candles. What advice of yours is even possible to follow? You contradict yourself incessantly. And this advice about amber and clear tubes is so impractical. Try reading this woman's VERY simple question at least ONCE before you go off on flash tube color and refrigerator paint.<p> You're not doing anyone any favors here, Timber, with this sort of incoherent stuff. Please start to read your own stuff before you hit the "submit" button, and try posting some photographic examples of your results if you want <i>any</i> credibility.<p> Your entire contribution could be deleted except for the last line "<i>just use the softbox in "warm light" situations for the most pleasing results</i>".<i> <p>Then</i> you would seem like a smart guy. Learn how to edit, and consider getting your own computer. They're pretty cheap these days... t

I have tried to refrain from commenting on Timber's postings and then this caught my eye:

 

"If you use this yellowed softbox with an amber coated tube, then you would have about 4900 degrees which is slightly warmer than the above 5200 degrees"

 

This is another highly suspect statement made by Timber. By your claims, if the yellowed softbox lowers the CT by 300 Kelvins and the amber coated tube lowers the CT by 300 Kelvins, putting an amber coated tube in the yellowed softbox DOES NOT lower the CT by 600 Kelvins to 4900 Kelvins! All you get is increased density and not a further change in CT.

 

Get a colour temperature meter and measure it!