yashicamat or rolliflex

im in love with my c330.. but there is one problem, it (c330 bag

lenses etc) weighs more than my crown graphic and bag of gear.. it

could be considered too big for a day sightseeing especially when the

c330 is around the neck.. i am considering a tlr in yashikamat,

124, 124g, roliflex, or?.. i probably dont need the extra expence of

the roliflex unless you guys deem it nessesary.. what light weight

6x6 tlr would you prefer for a daytrip sightseeing?? maintanance

costs are also a consideration.. thanks dave..

I have and use a wonderful Minolta Autocord, another camera you might add into your consideration.

Rolleicords can be just about, if not as good as Rolleiflexes, and are usually less expensive given similar age/condition. I think with these older TLR's, the main consideration is finding one in good mechanical shape with clear glass.

The 'mat is a nice camera, but with the yashinon lens (and the tessar on the

rolleicords) are somewhat soft in the corners when wide open, while the

planars on rolleiflexes are supposedly much better when shooting open.

Having said that, I have no major complaints with my yashicamat, and find it a

great camera to use. I find it easily light enough to wear around my neck all

day. Also consider a minolta autocord, and you can get the non-"G"

yashicamats for cheaper than the 124-G (lens is the same, but the meter has

gold-plated contacts (the meter is wonky on the 'mats, I use a handheld

instead.)

Dave,

 

It isn't that much more expensive to get a Rollei. You already know that you like using a

TLR right? In that case you should get the 'real' thing. Yashicas can take fine pics...don't

get me wrong.

 

I got my Rollei Xenar for $225. I sent it in for a $150 CLA and it is great (and will be for a

long time).

 

It would be interesting to know the following (I don't):

 

What does the finder of a 124G look like compared to an average cheap Rollei? What is

the durability/construction quality of the Yashicamat like? Does anyone work on the

Yashicamat?

 

The workmanship is excellent even on my lower model Rollei. I recently got a MINT 2.8 E

for $500 and it is off getting a CLA right now.

 

Also....it doesn't matter if anyone else deems it necessary for YOU to get a Rollei :)

 

If you don't mind spending $400, I would get this one:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&category=3354&item=3814414474&rd=1

 

For the most compact rollei, a "Bay 1" version....Xenar, Tessar are nice and small.

 

RE: the Rolleicord.....I would get a Yashicamat before a Rolleicord. I think the Cord feels

like a toy.

 

enjoy!

 

jmp

I definitely second the suggestion of Minolta Autocord. Check also Ricoh Diacord (G or L). The lens is 4 element Tessar type (I believe), sharp and contrasty. It has interesting and very useful focusing mechanism, two shutter releases (shutter is cocked separately, so multiple exposures are possible) and the selftimer. I've had Diacord-L for a while and I'm kinda kicking myself for selling it. The L has lightmeter (selenium cell) and EV lock system (some people love it, some hate it). Film transport is by knob and has automatic frame stops (no red window). If you like crank better, I believe Ricohmatic 225 is pretty much Diacord-L plus the crank minus DOF calculator (I believe it has table on the back instead). There's quite complete information about Diacords on NET.

"What does the finder of a 124G look like compared to an average cheap Rollei? What is the durability/construction quality of the Yashicamat like? Does anyone work on the Yashicamat?"

 

The finder is a little dim, but I've never found it to be a major hassle. The build quality is decent, definitely not a Rolleiflex though. The one major area where the 'mat can have problems in terms of durability is the film advance, which can get jammed, but if you don't force it or go nuts with winding, it's fine. There's a guy in Georgia (not the former Soviet republic!) named Mark Hama who used to assemble Yashica TLRs. He bought up their parts collection and now repairs and maintains Yashica equipment. I've never had to use his services, but he's recieved mostly positive reviews, but some have had problems. Having said this.. if I had the dough, I'd go for the rolleiflex, if I was tight on cash, I'd opt for a 'mat or autocord.

I've had a Yashicamat 124G for 22 years, bought it new. I have never

had any mechanical problems with it. The film crank will sometimes

jam if I wind it without film, but unjams quickly by just moving the

crank back and forth a few times. Four years ago I had it overhauled

by Yashica/Kyocera in Tokyo. Nothing wrong, I just thought it was

about time.

 

I myself replaced the original screen with one with a Bronica SQA. It

just needed a locating tab to be filed away. A big improvement. The

SQ screen is much brighter and easier to focus. During the overhaul,

Yashica found no problems with this substitution.

 

The Yashinon lens is OK but I think sometimes overpraised. I also

have an SQA, first with the 80/2.8 S and later the 80/2.8 PS. The

Bronica lenses have much more 'snap' as well as better resolution. It

is really noticeable with color slide film: the color from the

Yashinon is noticeably weaker, desaturated compared to the Zenzanons.

The Bronica lenses are good out to the edges while the Yashinon

(mine, anyway) is rather soft there. However, if you are not making

large prints, the Yashinon should be more than adequate. Especially

with B/W.

 

Actually, I've used the Yashicamat more than the SQA. It is smaller,

lighter, has much less vibration and is much quieter. And people seem

to be more open, less defensive when a Yashicamat is pointed at them.

I suppose it seems harmless, even a little nerdy compared to the SQA.

 

For a daytrip camera, the Yashicamat would be perfect.

It's sort of like deciding on what used car to buy, a Toyota Tercel or a BMW. The Mamiya is a tank, but yes, it is heavy, and with tele lenses it has a irritating way of hanging lens-downward; not much fun to carry around. The 'mat is a good, dependable camera, and will do the job nicely. The rollei...what can I say? It's simply a joy to use. It feels solid, not clunky/solid like the Mamiya, nor tinny like the 'mat. Of course, a camera is simply a box that holds your film. The question is: what lens do you want to take your pics with? The four-element Yashinons, or the five-element Planar or Xenotars with their nice crisp corners?

I have owned and used all the cameras mentioned save for the minolta.I don't want to offend anyone, but buy a good rollei and don't look back. The rest are just runners up.

Rolleflex - prices are at an all-time low. Automats (Tessar/Xenars) often go on ebay in the $100-150 range, sometimes even lower. The Planar/Xenotar models go for about 3x that but after having two Tessars pass through my hands and buying a 2.8E Xenotar, I'm not going back! The 'Cords are also very capable, its just the knob wind and separate shutter cocking just don't do it for me, especially in light of the Automat pricing these days.

 

For safety's sake, budget $150 or so for a decent CLA with one of the masters. (more if you want Fleenor) It may not need it but keep in mind these are old cameras.

I'd lean toward a good, functional Rollei.... The buttery smooth mechanics are worth the price of admission alone. Another thought: When I was using Mamaiya TLR's, I found a padded neck strap that extended down one's back to clip to the rear of your pants or belt. Transferring just a bit of the carry duty to an opposite direction made a surprising difference in the carry comfort of the chunky Mamiya. It's one of those things that doesn't look logical on paper but works quite well in the field.

I own all 3 cameras you are discussing, C330, Yashica Mat 124G and a Rolleiflex MX-EVS. I never though the C330 was heavy until I got the Rolleiflex, no comparison! The Yashica was my first TLR and while it takes excellent pictures, its build quality cannot be compared to the Rolleiflex. If you do get a Rollei, you will be not be happy with the dim viewing screen so while you are getting a CLA have the viewing screen replaced with a Maxwell screen, you will not believe the difference! As for Rolleiflex TLRs, have you ever heard someone say "I'm sorry I bought a Rolleiflex"? Remember what some famous poet said, "A thing of beauty is a joy forever".

I've owned a Mamiya C220, Yashicamat 124G, Rolleiflex 3.5E and 2.8E cameras. As a pure shooter, I would probably place the Yashica first. Here's why: The 124G lens is quite sharp (at least mine was) at the typical daytime apertures that I used (F8, F11, F16). The focus screen is much brighter than older vintage (e.g., 1950's) Rolleis. The crank winder automatically cocks the shutter just like with a Rolleiflex. I used a C.R.I.S. battery voltage adapter <a ref="http://www.criscam.com/mr9.htm">(information here)</a> and found the built-in meter to be good enough to rely on for general shooting. My Yashica was perfectly reliable. Finally, clean 124G's are available for pretty low prices since they don't have the "collector cachet" of the various Rolleflex models. Since you're not carrying a rare heirloom around, you can concentrate on shooting.

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I'm going to make another suggestion for you to consider. The later model C220f and C220s bodies are quite a bit lighter than an earlier C330 body. You might consider picking up a clean used C220f or C220s body, slapping a 55 or 65 on it if you have one, and using that all by itself as your daytrip sightseeing camera. It may not scratch your itch for a new, different camera, but it will lighten your load a lot.

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Finally, if the feel of a finely-crafted precision instrument adds a lot to your shooting experience, then do the following: buy a clean Rolleiflex, send it to a Rollei expert for a full CLA and a new focusing screen, and don't look back. By the time you're done with the CLA and screen it will be a lot more expensive than the options above, but it may be worth it to you. I have been sucked into the Cult of Rollei and have sold my 124G and C220 camera.

Yashica44 Great light 127 film camera. Well made, not tinny, the equal of a baby Rollie.

 

Yashica 635. Tinny yes, but plug the 135 adapter in it and prepared to be amazed at what that setup can do for environmental portraits.

 

C220f with a 65mm lens, nice combo and lighter than a C330 but still heavier than other alternatives.

 

I have never used a Minolta but I hear they are pretty good.

 

 

tim in san jose

I'll toss in a vote for the Yashica. Had one. Super sharp at f8 on a tripod. Picked it up for 75 bucks, used it 6 months, sold it for 75 bucks...but that was 5 years ago.

 

Patrick

Bought My first 6x6 3 years ago, a Rolleiflex 3.5E in close to mint condition. Sent it to Harry Fleenor for CLA and Maxwell screen and I LOVE this camera. I have several medium format cameras that just don't get used any more. The quality of the Rolleiflex and the solid feel of the camera just demands that you take it out and shoot it. Why go "cheap" when you can get a Rolleiflex with a 5 element lens for 1/3 what they were going for 5 years ago. You won't regret getting one of these beauties.

I'd go for the Rolleicord ... perhaps a good Vb if weight is a serious consideration. I currently use R'cord, the Minolta Autocord and Yashicamat 124 as well as the C330. In order of preference I'd go for Vb, Autocord and last Yashicamat for short jaunts. I must say both the Rolleicord and Autocord are rather fun to use. The R'cord has brighter glass (perhaps my autocord is of an earlier age). So far the Xenar at f8, 40x40cm enlargements were as good as those from R'flex 2.8F Planars.

For weight, the Yashicamat or the Rolleicord win hands down. The 'cord is smoother than the Yashica but has a knob wind, which some people find a little slow, and the shutter needs to be cocked seperately. That said, the VB gives the most bang for the buck in the pack with super, simple mechanics and a lovely bright viewing screen. I've never heard of one having problems, either.

 

Earlier Rolleiflexes (and 'cords) need their screens upgrading for pleasurable use and that can, literally, double their cost. A late Rolleiflex (E2 onwards) is a real pleasure to use but a good one can be expensive and they're not all that light. Myself, I'm happy to carry my E2 all day but someone else might find it too heavy.

 

Results? Well, I defy anyone to look at half a dozen random 20 x 16s taken outdoors in reasonable conditions and say which came out of a Yashicamat and which from a Rollei F. Where the lenses will differ is when you open them wide. Then the corners will be better with the more expensive cameras, possibly.

I have a YashicaMat and a Rollicord. Both give excellent sharp results. I respectfully

disagree with the contention that the Rollicord feels like a toy. To me it feels light, as

in less weight, which is one of your desires for this camera.