Discussion in 'Mirrorless Digital Cameras' started by monte_johnson, Dec 9, 2012.
If one plans to not change lens is there any advantage to having the X-E1 with 35 1.4 over X 100
I might add that I realize the two have different perspective on lens. I have to wonder since the X100 has came out if the X-E1 might be a better choice because it just is newer. I like the looks of both. price differnce is 400.00 to step over to X-E1 with 35. I light the normal lens as a prime so that is not a problem. I normally take some landscape and old structures.
I bought a black X100 kit and I love it for size, weight and image quality. That said, my primary cameras are now D800E's, and the X100 was at the very top of my price range for a knock-around camera.
The APS-C-sensored X100 has a 35mm f/2.0-FF-equivalent lens. The X-E1 is also an APS-C camera and the comparable lens would be an 18mm f/2.0 lens- the 35mm f/1.4 lens would be the FF equivalent of 52.5mm on the X-E1.
The X-E1 has a newer 16MP sensor, where the X100 has an older 12MP sensor. A newer, higher-rez sensor would be nice.
Deleted repeat post due to p.net's slow-loading problem.
I have looked at just buying X100 black kit. I no longer have any Nikon gear. I just shoot for myself. I have used the LX3 and LX5 for the last couple years. I converted the LX3 to infrared. I am ready for a bigger sensor again. I also like the syle of both cameras. I donot know if the 16 MP makes a lot of differnce in image quality, but newer camera might be more advanced. I have always wanted a M9 but will never be able to buy one So i will settle for a good sensor and lens that operates like an manual camera.
Monte, another camera that looks interesting is the new Sony RX1. It has an "X" in the name, which is now apparently a requirement for a sub-SLR camera to be taken seriously.
The RX1 is FF and has a Zeiss 35mm f/2.0 lens. By the time you add an electronic finder on the camera, you're looking at about $3,200- which is the current price of a 35mm f/2.0 Summicron ASPH lens. So, you'd still be way ahead of the game price-wise compared to shooting digital Leica M stuff:
I would love to have the RX1. I have read much about it. If I am willing to wait awhile I could get it but a lot of money. I always like Zeiss glass. Used on my Contax camera and Rollie GX. Back when I shot slide film it produced beautiful images. I belive you get what you pay for. I think if I don't wait and save for RX1 I will probably get Fuji x100 for now. I just know what ever I get I have to live with because of buget restaints. I have struggled with this since the RX1 was anounced.
If you want something small with a wide angle lens, get the X100. If you want something a bit larger with a normal prime and keeping the options open for the future, get the X-E1.
I would have to agree with you when comparing the two cameras. I don't mind the attached lens and I have to believe image quality is close between the two. I am still not ruling the X2 out yet. I believe these two are at the top of my list outside the RX1 which price is a determing factor there.
I was just looking at some RX1 photos. I must say, I really like the photos from both the Fujifilm cameras better. I find them better on both noise and dynamic range. You can check the flickr groups for the respective cameras for photos and exif data. You can choose larger viewing sizes by right clicking on the images.
There are quite a few technical differences between the Fujifilm cameras. You have to compare the tech specs and find out what you would prefer. The specs are in favour of the X-E1, no doubt about that. The cameras have different sensors. RAW converter problems have been reported for the X-E1 sensor. I don't know to which extent and if this applies to all the RAW converters. Hopefully the issues will be solved. There has been rumours that X100 will come with the same sensor as X-E1 in the next version.
X-E1 has full HD video, and comes with microphone/shutter release input (I find the microphone in to be very important). However, there is this 'something' I like about the photos from the X100 that I can't find to the same extent in the X-E1 photos. I can't really explain what it is. But I will be checking them both out further. I want a X-E1 with the X100 sensor! Fat chance It could also be the lens of the X100 that gives that creamy/soft effect that I like.
And last, but not least: An interchangable lens camera might be something you would want in the future, even if you don't think so now. Most of us evolve as photographers, and at a certain point a fixed lens camera such as the X100 might become too limiting. Even if money is a limiting factor today, it might not be in a few years from now (regarding buying lenses for the camera).
I have thought about future lens chioces. That is one for X-E1, but I have to agree. I like the looks of images from X100 better. When I used 35mm film always used a 50 mm lens. Twin lens camera had a fixed lens. One the things this did for me was made me think more about my shots and I learned what that lens was capable of and what I could do to get the best from it. I would like a couple different lens if I had the X-E1, but i know from experience for what I do mostly I can live with that. The difference in price is not an issue. The RX1 is another consideration I will consider. I know a lot of people cannot live with a fixed lens so many won't consider it. I don't think there are many cameras out there that don't take good pictures so that is not a real issue.
Down the road, resale value might be a consideration.
You have two different focal lengths with the two cameras. I forgot to mention that. But you are probably aware of that already. X-E1 with the 35mm lens equals 53.6mm on a 35mm camera, and X100 with the 23mm lens equals 35mm (crop factor 1.53 and 1.52).
I just learned that the pixel size of the X100 is 34% bigger than of the X-E1. That is quite a substansial difference.
Here is some more information for the X-E1
And for the X100
One thing for sure high ISO images are very good with the X-E1. Even straight jpeg out of camera is pretty good. When you really look at it both camera produce nice images. I believe the X-E1 has an edge over X100 with the 16MP. It will be enough to push me towards the E1. I am aware of the different focal lengths. Like I said only 400.00 difference if I figure 35 1.4 lens.
The technology is also newer in the X-E1. I think the 400.00 might be worth it.
Did you notice that you can bounce the X-E1's pop-up flash (it can be tilted to a 90-degree angle)? What a cool feature. I don't know how usable it is when bounced, but the idea is great! Never heard of that before.
If you would like to see a shootout comparison between the X-E1 and the Sony NEX-6, there is a video from The CameraStoreTV if you go to youtube.com and search with these words:
quesabesde Fuji XE-1 Sony NEX-6I won't tell the result. They have a few other videos that might be of interest, too.
When I used 35mm film always used a 50 mm lens. Twin lens camera had a fixed lens. One the things this did for me was made me think more about my shots and I learned what that lens was capable of and what I could do to get the best from it.Monte, if 50 mm is "your" lens of choice this an important one in favor of the X-E1, otherwise the comparison should be made putting the X100 against the 23 mm F:1,4 on the X-E1.
When the X Pro1 came out I was tempted to get one and now the story goes with the X-E1, but even if I get it I think I will keep the X100.
The main reasons: I like the image quality, the flash sync at any speed, the leaf shutter silence and still having the OVF choice at the 35 mm equivalent focal distance, as this is a lens I could take for a holiday abroad with no problem at all (just as a caution, I took also a Canon G10 to get a backup and I ended up firing it twice to "justify" myself for carrying it), leaving the heavy DSLR and lenses at home.
Otherwise, the X-E1 has a lot of advantages and is a more flexible camera (making it probably a more "rational" choice) and I'm postponing my decision just to see if Fujifilm shows any indication about the possible use of the phase AF sensor design they've already patented. Besides I think the present contrast only system would not be a problem for me, having the X100 allows me to wait with peace of mind.
X-E1 is probably the way I will go. Gives me some better options. It will be after Christmas before I buy one so I have time. Leica X2 is still a desire, but for several reasons I will bypass that one. I can buy lens adapters for the E1 if I want which opens other doors. Always seems like the time I have it figured out other cameras come along and mess me up.
Monte, I was just going to check the tech specs of the Leica X2. I don't know what is happening, but that web page is cracy here on my computer. There is a slide show there that starts by itself, and the photos of the camera is showing for half a second before they disappear. There are no working links there to choose any other information about the camera. The web page nearly froze my browser.
I, for one, does not want this fancy stuff on the camera companies' web pages. I don't want videos and slideshows to start by itself if I go to the Fujifilm web pages. When you go there for information for the 30th time, that is pointless. The videos sometimes doesn't work like they should, either. They can't be stopped and the sound can't be turned off (I have had to mute my computer). Yesterday I was on a 2g connection. Due to heavy snow fall the 3G net was down. If you are on a slow connection, the pages take forever to load. Nuff said about that.
There is a comparison between the X-E1 and the X2 here, but it seems to me that they only use some of the tech specs, and no specs for the video. But looking at the specs they are using, the two cameras seem to be quite similar.
there is no video on X2. It is a simple straight forward camera. That is the one thing I like about it. great lens no viewfinder but can add on one. high ISo is better on X-E1 but it is good to 1600.I have been atractted to Leica compact since X1 came around. I used older rangefinder cameras not Leica years ago so would buy M9 if I could afford it. Anyway the X2 is a camera I desire but not sure if I would buy one, but keep that option open. Again a fixed lens on X2. Auto focus seems to be good on X2 accurate from what I have read. It does seem to be a german camera.
In comparing cameras, the digital camera database gives you only so much in regard to anticipated image quality. An important variable or parameter is the nature of the software the camera uses to take the analogue response of the sensor and convert it to digital data and other computer functions in the treatment of the original sensor information. This certainly differs between manufacturers but probably also within the same company. It's hard top beat personal evaluations of the performance of cameras being compared. If you have the patience to do a controlled test (same subject, lighting, etc.) it is I think the way to go.
It seems like quite a few people are experiencing sticky aperture blades on their X100...
X100 is compact, for this point only, you may have more potential chance to capture moment that worth of.
I have to agree with you Arthur, being in the midwest many of the cameras I like Are not available through dealers here. So i have no physical feeling because I cannot see them. Also I know to take in account what I read is based on each persons experience. That is good but we all have differnt perspective there. The only good way to know is conduct oour own test. I remember buying the D200 and after I got it I never really liked it. Trying not to make that mistake. Ann, I have heard some problems with sticky aperture blades on X100.
One interesting fact today,
A lady from Dale Photo sent me a jpeg file taken with Leica X2. I pocessed it in PS and I can say from my eyes it was pretty good. I imagine raw files from X2 is even better. I cropped the image and blew it up 100 per cent and it held up pretty good. It at least gave me an idea the quality of images from X2. I thought they were pretty good.
I bought the X100 before the X-E1 came out. I love it, but if I were making a decision at this point in time as to which camera to buy, I would get the X-E1. Of course, if you will almost never use a lens other than the slightly wide lens in the X100, then it would be a good choice, particularly considering the wonderful hybrid finder. However, for me personally, the interchangeable lens capability of the X-E1 gives it an edge. Also, rumor has it that PhaseOne will soon be supporting the X-E1 and X-Pro RAW files in their CaptureOne RAW converter. Soon, we will see what the new X-trans sensor is really capable of!
What I love about the X100, which is carried over to the X-E1, is the electronic viewfinder that is in exactly the place I'm used to it being on Leica and Contax rangefinders I've used in bygone days, as well as the Mamiya 7II bodies I still use from time to time. That the EFV is 100% accurate is fantastic- the EFV is considerably more accurate than the finders on my D800E's.
Just forget specs and measures of image quality. Both cameras are more than good enough at those things, as are their
competitors. The X100 decision comes down to whether a fairly compact camera with a wide angle lens only is what you
want - if yes, get it, or if no, rule it out and look at other options.
Other options: Fuji cameras with interchangeable lenses, NEX cameras and Micro 4/3 cameras. If the X-E1 is the Fuji for
the comparison, the competitors are the NEX 6 or 7 and the Olympus OM-D. These cameras are all so close to equal in
technical specs and image quality that in those terms it doesn't matter which you get. If you shoot raw and process in
Lightroom or something you'll never tell the difference. Don't look at web sites that compare technical image quality
performance - they'll only bias you.
Look at available lenses and try the cameras, feel their ergonomics and whether the controls make sense to you, and
whether or not the viewfinders agree with you. Do you want to use older manual focus lenses? Look at how each one
does with those.
The X100 is an excellent camera. It' not a 'pick up and use' camera by any stretch, given its foibles, none of which are problems, rather things to learn in order to extract the best from it. It is a camera that rewards time spent with it.
The hybrid viewfinder is amazing; the focus is good enough in AF, and cunning in manual focus when you af with the back button and rattle off frames at an astonishing rate in virtual silence without having to wait for focus. But the really astonishing thing is the consistency of colour in the images, the skin tones are remarkable, and the small flash provides gentle balance with the ambient light. I normally mess around with the white balance and flash ratios in my compacts, but with the X100 I have never touched either and obtained really beautiful results.
The more I use it the more I realise how remarkable it is. Forget any problems you may have heard of such as sticky aperture blades - mine had them, Fuji fixed it, they paid for uplift, returned it four days later (500 mies away) and with a multi point checklist of work done and signed by the technician - and this was a refurb model bought from Fuji. All cameras have problems - it's how the mfctr resolves them and in my opinion Fuji are to be congratulated for standing behind their product. I'm happy with mine.
One reason I looked at X100 was it seems like good value for the money. Also it is the type of camera I like. This has been some good feedback here. I am grateful for all of you. I have no problem buying X-E1 or x100 or X2 if that is what i want, but If I am happy with a 1200 dollar camera then why spend more. Having the lens option is good but not that important to me. Image quality and ease of use is. I mostly print now for my 11x14 albums and from time to time make bigger prints for people.
One of the things I have done is what many of us do is read to many reviews. What was said here is right any camera today can produce quality images. I think it just comes down to what fits. I have jump all over the place with cameras. First the X100, then X-E1 then X2 no end to it. Out of the three I believe my first choice is X-E1 because even if I use only one lens I always have other options. In The end I will settle on one, but for now I am not going to read anymore.
Well, if you aren't going to read anymore, then I'm not going to write anymore !.
What i meant was I was not going to read anymore of the reviews out there, not that I was not going to read what the people here had to say. I value this site and your thoughts as well as others. I hope you did not get the wrong idea. The main reason I post questions here is I get real users views on these camera. Thank you for sharing that. It is important to me. I have several decisions based on the views shared here in the past.
One of the things I have got from this discussion is the X100 is truley like by the peole who own it. Also the X-E1 has become one of great interest. Even though I have heard this before. It really confirms to me these camera are well recieved by their owners. That is all I need to know because Like I have said. I have no where around here I can try or even see these cameras first hand so I have to count on others to share with me their experience using them. The hard part is which one for me. Back when the X100 came out I wanted one in the worst way. No funds at that time and I do not use credit anymore. So I save until I can buy one, I think for me that makes me think really hard about decissions I make. The reason I leaning a little more toward X-E1 It gives me the option for other lens if I choose. I don't think it is any better than X100. If it come down to fixed lens is just fine for me than X100 is best choice.
This site has some of the most talened and passonate people I have ever incountered on the net. That is why I love this site. When I go through main photo gallery I am blown away by the creative talent of the artist here. I only wish I had haft the knowledge that is here on this site.
Just having fun with you, Monte. Sounds like you are leaning toward the X-E1. Either way, you get a great camera. But if you are like me and like to spend money wisely and keep a camera for a long time, I don't see how you can go wrong with the X-E1.
These cameras remind me of a time when I was passonate about photography. Walking through old abandonded farm houses and buildings I could feel the history, the life that was there. I used my camera to express that connection. It didn't matter if it was a 35mm Contax camera or a twin lens Rollieflex the emotion of that moment was recorded by those cameras forever. When digital came about it changed the way I had to look at this. In camera menues were not automatic as were top camera control wheels so the thought to do things were not natural to me. Now camera are coming back to that with the best of both worlds. I believe that is why I and others are excited about them. I have not been connected to a camera since I had a Rollie GX. Even the Minolta X370 one of the first 35mm I had inspired that feeling. So when I look at the X100 or X-e1, I sense that feeling again. I donnot what to just take pictures again, I want to experince the vision, the creative connection I once had.I know it is not the camera that makes the picture be great, but if the camera fits well then the focus is where it needs to be, creating.
I know it is not the camera that makes the picture be great, but if the camera fits well then the focus is where it needs to be, creating.How about next time you go on a holiday trip, you go to a city with a decent size reputable camera store and try out the cameras first hand before you buy one? If it is right in your hands, the focus can be on the creating.
The new Canon EOS M is also another possibility. As is the Sigma DP2 M.
I regularly shoot with both the X100 and the XE1. I have more affection for my X100, and if you're happy to stick with a fixed focal length then there are some benefits to the X100:
Hybrid viewfinder (the OVF is a joy)
Leaf shutter (you can sync at high shutter speeds)
Built in ND filter
Reliable mainstream RAW support (no current decent RAW support for X Trans)
Small form factor
Beautiful to look at!
In terms of image quality there isn't much between the two, in fact I slightly prefer the look of the X-100 files. Fuji have not improved autofocus in the XE1 which is annoying. And the XE1 has a mechanical shutter which is actually quite loud.
I have both and think I have a good feel for your choice here.
First - the sticky blades issue is gone - some of the early x100s (not many) had it and Fuji fixed or
replaced all of them AFAIK.
The fixed lens means no dust (but so would never changing the ex1 lens).
The menus are somewhat easier to use on the ex1, but truthfully, once you set them up, they are both
The x100 will fit easily in most jacket pockets or cargo pants pockets - the ex1 protrudes enough more
that it won't fit "easily" in some jackets or cargo pants.
The built in flash is probably a little better on the ex1 but in either case the flash is weak and only really
useful as fill flash - for fill flash in bright light, the x100 has a huge edge - it will sync up to 1/2000
The x100 has a truly silent shutter - actually SILENT - and is very handy for taking pix in some
The sensor in the ex1 is the same SIZE as the x100 but has more pixels - grabs a bit more details and
does a very good job at handling noise, but x100 is a touch better in the noise area. Neither have any
noise issues in prints smaller than 11x14 or even 16x20.
If you DO decide to buy another lens, you will want the ex1.
Don't buy either one until you hear what Fuji announces next week (Jan 7, I believe) in the way of new
products - not likely at all to see xe1 or xp1 updates, but maybe an x200 (which would mean lower
pricing on the x100).
There is no bad choice here - both are top notch cameras!
I believe that all of them are great cameras. I am leaning towards X100 or X-E1 at this time. The new 1ooS is coming out. so that might mean an drop in price for the X100. If I am sure I will stay with one lens I will probably go with X100. I have found for the most part the only way to tell is pick which one speaks to you the most. I know image quality is important to me but what i have come to realize is if I enjoy the camera experiece my images are great.
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