WW2 Era Aircraft Camera 'Type F.60' Question

<p>OK, I know this is a bit outside the normal parameters of the Forum, but my other avenues of investigation have dried up. So if anybody can offer any advice about the parentage of a 35mm camera I've recently acquired, with a nameplate of 'Camera Aircraft Type F.60', I'd be most appreciative. It's not an Air Recce Camera, nor a machine gun or canon fire recording cine camera, by the way. Apart from the governmental s/nos, there was a stores label attached with a piece of string giving a '24th January 1949' handwritten date. However, it didn't say if that was when it was taken into service, or consigned to 'Surplus Stock'.</p>

<p>I've posted a pic of the Beast, which bears a certain resemblance to the Leica Reporter in that it has oversized drums either side. However, any resemblance stops there. The sparse information I've got from around the world so far is that it has an uncoated F2 1.5 inch FL lens, operating only at full aperture, with a high-speed electric motor to take 60 35mm transparencies of bomb patterns from the cathode ray tube of an H2S Ground-Mapping Radar. This was fitted to various British WW2 bombers such as the Halifax and Lancaster, and also USAAC planes like the B-17, from early 1943 onwards. Look closely, and you'll see that there are four mounting lugs on the rear frame which would have presumably been screwed by brackets close-up to the CRT.</p>

<p>So far, so good - but I still don't know who made the damn thing, because like a lot of 'sensitive' military equipment during wartime, it only has governmental military markings like 'Camera Aircraft Type F.60' and '14A/3541' along with those familiar arrow markings. If any of you military Gurus out there can assist with just who made it, that would help complete my research. So far I'm about half-way between suspecting it could have been made for the RAF by either Eastman Kodak in Rochester NY, or alternatively AGI Ltd then of Croydon, Surrey. Neither have got back to me yet, by the way, in case you're going to ask the obvious question ....</p>

<p>PERPLEXED PETE IN PERTH</p><div></div>

<p>I.m thinking Williamson.</p>

<p>"To take 60 35mm transparencies of bomb patterns from the cathode ray tube of an H2S Ground-Mapping Radar". Sorry I can't help with the identification, but as far as I know (not very far...) H2S used radar echoes from ground features such as rivers and coastlines, displayed like maps on the cathode tube, to pinpoint the aircraft's position. I can understand why they might want to photograph this (although wouldn't the camera get in the way of the operator?) but I'd be surprised if the system would see individual bomb blasts on the screen.<br>

Does the lens have provision for focussing? If it focusses close up, no doubt it was for CRT's.</p>

<p>Thanks, guys! Cliff, I too thought Williamson parentage when I first got it, but although there's several of their air recce and gun cameras mentioned in BJP Almanac adverts, there's nothing there like this 'F60'. The closest I've heard of, in function if not exactly form, was an 'F.65' made by Eastman Kodak in Rochester for the RAF:<br>

"A modification to the Kodak 35 f3.5 model for the British military, <br />designated as the F-65 Recording Camera, was intended to record cathode <br />ray traces. (fig.16) The camera was secured by a special mounting <br />bracket fastened to the housing of the specified cathode ray tube <br />housing. The lens was a modified 45mm f/2 Kodak Anastigmat (Ektar) lens <br />with the diaphragm locked at full aperture of f/2, so marked, and with <br />no other apertures indicated."</p>

<p>John, yes the F.60 does focuss very close-up. I've attached another picture, this time of the camera's back showing the circular inspection porthole aligned with the lens. One of the guys in our Camera Club is a camera technician so he unscrewed the porthole cover and did a bit of adjusting the lens, which has a very fine threaded collar to fine-tune things - maybe for different thickness film?<br>

Although the main purpose of the H2S Radar was to assist navigation by providing a continually changing 'map' of the terrain below, however once the target was near it seems logical that the F.60 was quickly screwed to the CRT. There would be a known time lapse while the bombs fell, and then the high speed sequence of the 60 frames would commence, showing the bombs hitting the ground and exploding. I guess the heat and the light from the explosions would show up sufficiently against the known features of the target terrain to enable intelligence staff and photo-interpretors back at Base to view the 60 transparencies and assess just how close to the target the bombs had been, and what damage had been caused.</p>

<p>PETE IN PERTH</p><div></div>

<p>Pete have a look here: <a href="http://www.john-dillon.co.uk/V-Force/radar.html">http://www.john-dillon.co.uk/V-Force/radar.html</a><br>

This is about a later era with the Vulcan atomic bomber with H2S but the principle may be the same. One picture shows an orange pad in front of the CRT, which was where the operator rested his forehead. Beneath the pad but not visible in the picture is the"R88" camera. This seems to have been mounted above the centre of the screen to give the operator a better view.<br>

I'm still a little sceptical about it seeing the bomb explosions but what do I know?</p>

<p>Does it by chance have the spools so you could try it out? Is that black thing on the back a micro switch that counts sprocket holes?</p>

<p>Hi, John And Cliff John, thanks for the link to the Vulcan's H2S setup - very interesting. From what I've gleaned from the Net, later H2S setups used narrower band radar which could give a clearer view, something the USAAC had also decided on when they made their H2X version later during WW2. I actually saw a Vulcan bomber at an Air Museum just outside Norwich, Norfolk a few years ago. Sheesh, what an aircraft - and what huge delta wings. Luckily the bomb bays were empty now of course .....</p>

<p>Cliff, the F.60 does have its spool drums intact but the whole unit requires 24V, normal power supply for military aircraft back then, to run the electric motor which drives everything. That little black junction box is a bit of a mystery because inside it there's a marking for '3V' which doesn't seem enough to drive an electric motor, so maybe there's a secondary electrical gizmo. By the way, here's what a helpful source in the UK had to say about the F.60:<br>

"The F-60 was used as a cathode tube recording camera. 35mm format. Fitted with a 1.5 ins f2.0 lens.Holds 5 feet of film, approx 60 exposures with a 1in diameter. Fitted in a Type 55 mount and a 45 deg. mirror attachment could be fitted. No shutter was fitted, the camera scans the tube image for a preset period and then the film is moved on by one frame within 3 milliseconds, this being at a speed that does not bur the image.It looks like that the camera could have been fitted in bomber aircraft as the documents I have stated that the camera operates as long as the bomb release is depressed or as long as the release button on the camera is operated, remotely or on the camera."</p>

<p>PETE IN PERTH</p>

<p>It shouldn't be too hard to make up a power supply to run that thing. Electronics were very simple back then. If it has the spools I would be getting it to work. The 3V is likely a low voltage current loop for the external trigger, and is likely a simple dropping circuit inside the camera with the 3V being an output. If it is marked inside like you say, it is probably a test point to check the current loop circuit. If there was an external box it would have been this current loop trigger. The current loop was the favorite method of triggering everything even the teletype machines. Using the on-board release button the camera may work fine with just the 24V connected.</p>

<p>Hi, Cliff Thanks, mate, for that very interesting short course in basic electrics - but you're talking to a guy whose practical knowledge stops at around the changing a power plug/fixing a blown fuse School. Although I did once rewire a 6V CZ trail bike, come to think of it .............</p>

<p>I guess duplicating a military aircraft 24V DC power setup wouldn't be that hard to achieve, maybe just by connecting two 12V car batteries in series (or is it parallel?). So, assuming then that the bearings in the electric motor are still OK after 60 years of sitting there doing nothing, etc etc, what could the F.60 actually take 60 quick-fire pictures of? I'm assuming of course, that the only way the beast operates would be to burn through those 60 frames at high speed, once the button on top was pushed to set things in motion. Remember, the F2 lens has no aperture controls and can only focus very close.</p>

<p>I'm taking the F.60 along to our next Camera Collectors Club meeting, with the Chapter Two news about its association with the H2S Radar. It just might be that the guys there consider that a bit of an experimental setup could be justified, maybe of a dripping tap or some such other situation where a sequence of high-speed frames was needed.</p>

<p>Regarding my initial query about the parentage aspect, I've located a Brit Army veterans web forum where somebody had posted a question about his recently acquired 'Camera Aircraft Type F.60', ie the same as mine. Hopefully something will come out of this, since I've now signed up with their Forum .....</p>

<p>PETE IN PERTH</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I didn't have a dripping tap in mind. You have the makings of a great panoramic camera there. Just attach it to a motorized rotating plate, and use a little lens from a point and shoot mounted in front of a vertical slot, and bypass the frame stops for continuous film feed. The DC motor film winder and rotating base plate could both be adjusted for variable speed for exposure control. None of which would permanently alter the camera as a collectible. You could be out there shooting 360 degree pans at the press of a button! If you don't know how to do the electronics, you could ask some of your camera buddies or some local electronics nerds how to do it.. It would be a great project and have very cool results.</p>

<p>Also since it would be motorized, you could make pre-sets for 120, 150 180, degree pans or whatever you wanted. You should be able to get lots of Panoramic shots on that long strip. Since there is no shutter, the beginning and end of each shot would be a black line on the negative.</p>

<p>Please keep us informed, since many of us who don't have a clue as to what this all is, are still interested. :)</p>

<p>After talking with Dan Fromm, I looked up the AGI logo and it looks like it to me. Apparently AIG took over the Williamson tooling. Here is a data plate showing the logo at the top. And from what I gather AGI made the camera and the lens.</p><div></div>

<p>AGI AGI AGI. After having my aircraft insurance for so many years with AIG my fingers find it hard to type AGI.</p>

<p>Hi, Cliff Interesting idea about the F.60's possibilities as a panoramic camera, mate! One of our Cam Coll Club members is an enthusiastic panorama man, so I'll bounce your ideas off him when I take it along to next month's meeting. I already showed it at last month's meeting, but at that time I wasn't aware of the H2S Radar connection so a few of us thought it might have been filming infra-red images, but now we've got that straightened out.</p>

<p>I'm afraid that much as I'd like to think that 'arrow'-style logo indicates 'AGI' Ltd origins, it's actually just the familiar standard British governmental logo that appeared on anything and everything military - plus even convicts' clothing here in Australia back in the 19th century. However, I certainly agree that AGI are the most likely company to have made it so I emailed them a few weeks ago asking for confirmation, but not a dicky-bird back yet. To be honest, I'm not holding my breath about ever getting a response from them because they are notoriously close-lipped about their products, even long-obsolete ones like the F.60 with no more sensitive security aspects.</p>

<p>One posssible ray of light is that our main Perth military aircraft museum at Bullcreek has one elderly volunteer on their books who comes in once a month or so, to assist in identifying stuff in his area of expertise which was as a bombardier (ie bomb-aimer) on the AVRO Lancaster bomber. The museum has a fully restored Lanc on display, complete with H2S Radar. I'm hoping that I can get to meet him there and show him the F.60, and pick his brains about just what the sequence was about its operation. It would be really nice if he also knew for sure if it was an AGI-made item. It would be even nicer if I could be allowed to take the camera into the Lanc's cockpit with him, to check around the H2S's CRT screen for four screw holes that align with the four mounting lugs on the back of the camera!</p>

<p>PETE IN A CHILLY PERTH</p>

<p>Is that really a "logo" at the top? It looks like the "broad arrow" long used to indicate Crown property in Britain, (and also at one time on prisoner's uniforms). (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad_arrow">link</a> ) (oops, sorry pete, I didn't see that part of your answer before I hit the confirm button).</p>

<p>You guys are right, I thought it looked like the AGI logo but it would not make chronological sense anyway as I am told AGI didn't really take over Williamson's till 1949 or maybe after. Anyway it would make a neat panoramic camera, or bookend, or doorstop.</p>

<p>Hi Pete, I can't give you a specific answer either but here are some pointers. The 'F' bit of the camera name is short for 'film' to distinduish it from the earlier 'P' models. The 14A sprefix is the normal Air Ministry identification code.. The cameras were designed mostly by the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) in conjunction with contractors. These included Williamson, AGI and Vinten but it is lilely that the contracting was open to any othe UK camera / instrument maker. MPP made ground cameras for the RAF. Vinten seemed to have made most of the 1950 - 1970 cameras and Williamson the earlier WW2 versions.</p>

<p>The F 52 (1942) camera was like the more familiar F24 (1925) but could take longer lenses. The F60 therefore has to be after 1942 but probably not by much.</p>

<p>The H2S cameras were originally Kodak Bantams fitted with special extension rings to be able to focus close enough. See photo below showing the heart-warming lash-up. (Yes that is a copy stand). So it might be this is a later more professional version of the Bantam H2S camera. You could try seeing where the camera focus is set. If it is a close up setting then the H2S story or something similar sounds likely.</p>

<p>Source - <em>'Eyes of the RAF'</em> - Roy Conyers Nesbit</p><div></div>

Couple more details : the original Bantam version was mounted on a hinge to allow the operator to see the screen. The point of photographing the screen was to show analysts where the plane was when bombs were dropped as this was a vexed question due to the inaccuracy of night bombing. At the moment of 'bombs gone' the camera was swung into position and the shutter held down for one second for each exposure which was the time for the sweep to rotate. On return the camera went to the base duty photographer for process.

<p>Hi, Colin Many thanks for that information, mate - plus that gem of a photograph of the earlier H2S camera set-up, using a modified Kodak US-made Kodak 35 camera. Coincidentally, I've just had some information from 'Don', the former Lancaster bombardier, via the Curator at the Perth Bullcreek Air Museum. He can recall an earlier 'trial' setup using a separate 35mm camera body, before the dedicated F.60 like mine came into use.</p>

<p>So, it could well be that the one in your photo from 'Eyes Of The RAF' is indeed what 'Don' remembers. I also had some earlier information from a friend in the US, mentioning that EKC in Rochester NY had made an 'F.55' camera for the RAF's H2S Radar, using a modified Kodak 35 camera with an F2 lens, so could that be the same one? I seem to recall that there had never been a British-made 35mm still camera until the post-war Ilford Advocate of c. 1949, so using an American-made Kodak 35 body would be understandable in 1943 or 44. Well, they could hardly fit a Leica body, could they?</p>

<p>Little by little the pieces of the jigsaw are fitting into place, but still no confirmation of which company made my F.60 unfortunately. I'm still betting on AGI Ltd, despite their reticence to come forward and admit 'Twas I Wot Dun It'. Again, many thanks for that information and the photo scan!</p>

<p>PETE IN A SUNNY BUT CHILLY PERTH</p>

<p>Just to clarify an earlier point. The H2S radar would not be able to record bomb blasts, but the camera would have been used to record the screen at the moment the bombs were released. The estimated position of the explosions would then have been calculated from the position at release point. In WW2 this was not a particularly accurate way of aiming bombs and it was only used when cloud cover prevented visual identification of aiming points.</p>

<p>Regards</p>

<p>Alan</p>

<p>Pete, I think you are right about the lack of pre-war British 35mm cameras.</p><p>Identifying British wartime miiltary manufacturers is frequently next to impossible now as many factories were set up as a temporary measure. For example most of the RAF reconnaisance lenses were based on Dallmeyer designs like the Pentac and Dallon. But many were manufactured by wartime factories such as the NOC (National Optical Company) at Leicester. This was set up during the war by staff from (I think) TTH. The NOC lenses often have no identification or sometimes just a tiny 'NOC' stamped in an inconspicuous place. After the war all military production was massively cut back and the wartime factories disappeared. Near to where I live is a public park that was a huge wartime farm and also some London Underground tunnels which during the war housed a small arms factory. There is now no trace of either. </p><p>Anyway all the best with the research.</p>

<p>Colin, many thanks again for your research assistance and those reminiscencies about what went on during WW2 with the construction of concealed factories, and how quickly the signs of their existence disappeared once the fighting had stopped.</p>

<p>It's also interesting to note how sub-contracting of manufacture of specialist parts essential to the War effort was handled. For example, my mother did the night-shift at a small engineering company in Leeds, turning out undisclosed parts for the RR Merlin. I guess that was a ruse used by both the Allies and the Axis powers, decentralising production so one especially accurate bombing raid couldn't disrupt production for too long, especially of complex items like aircraft. The aircraft factories in effect then became just assembly plants, as I recently saw in a DVD about Focke-Wulf 190 production which appeared to be constructed along the lines of a giant Meccano Set!</p>

<p>Alan, I'm a bit mystified about your comments that the H2S Radar - and therefore the F.60 Camera - couldn't detect actual bomb blasts and consequential flames and fires. If so, what was the purpose of the F.60 (and the earlier F.55) cameras taking those high-speed bursts of 35m film of the CRT, timed to start after the bombs hits the ground? The only logical reason is surely that the H2S did indeed detect certain tell-tale clues as to bombing accuracy, otherwise why bother filming it if all you could see was the same pre-bombing compared to post-bombing? (Pete In Perth) </p>

<p>Peter, I just found a note in the lens VM that read as follows:</p>

<p><strong>Kodak Anastigmat f2.0 1.5" (38.1mm) on F60 camera no shutter was fitted as it was for cathode ray tube recording</strong><br /><strong></strong><br />So if the LVM is correct it is a Kodak.</p>

<p>The following note was also seen:</p>

<p><strong>Kodak Anastigmat f2.0 26mm on F65 camera. This was mounted at the rear of a Kodak No.1 Supermatic shutter, set at about infinity but with a heavy glass filter in the front of the shutter to exclude dust, and was probably replaced by a close up lens of choice for recording. Seen at No. ER190 (about 1945), and probably a Q18 type lens. Conyers Nesbit in his book lists a Dallimeyer version(Nov 1944) for recording radar H2S screens, and this is the USA version for H2X screen recording. The camera being swung into line with the screen on a pivot. Even in 1945 it was not coated.</strong></p>

<p>Thought that these notes might be interesting to you. I was looking up another lens and just happened across these notes by chance.</p>