maxmalossini Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Today I did some portrait of a friend. FIrst I used b&w, then I wanted to end with some color shots (white clothes on green grass type of situation). I used nph (400) but the ASA was set at 100!! (I'm not used to my back-up manual body). I only shot 10 frames, then the session ended. On top of this I was overexposing another 1 f- stop, so I actually shot at 50ASA, if I'm not mistaking. My questions are: did I (practically) loose all those 10 shots? Should I continue and finish this roll with the same [wrong] ASA? What can a good lab do? Thank you, Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_macman Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 First off, we're a few decades ahead of ASA, so please cut that from your vocabulary :) Anyhow, go to a good lab and specify that you shot everything at 100 and they will fix it. Colors and contrast will suffer somehow but the shots can be recuperated for sure. If you had enough light for that you might even have some pleasant surprises. However, that correction during development has to be done the same way on the whole film, so continue using the film at 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_macman Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 In fact, obviously, specify everything to the lab person including the calculation for that extra stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Carry on with the roll the same way and find a lab that actually alters the development time, not the print time, when you ask for a �2 ½ half stop pull.� Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_ Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Generally you can shoot NPH at ISO 320. If you set your camera to 320ASA and finish it, the worse case is the ten shots in question will be overexposed -- the printer should be able to get something. If not, then reshoot your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 This is a low contrast film, designed to handle extreme brightness ranges,where the brightest white is 9 times brighter than the blackest black.I would have it processed normal,and expect it to be fine.Over exposing NPH 3 or 4 stops wont hurt a thing,except the highlights/whites might lack detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 I presume you�ve done this Steve? You�ve gotten �fine� results from grossly over exposing this stock? What an awful thing to recommend to someone. Processing normal is not the best treatment for this mistake. Max, I would like to edit my first post. Don�t carry on shooting at 50asa, just pull the roll out, don�t bun it off like I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Max, 1) Pull the roll from the camera; and process it pull 1 stop, which for C41 is 2:30 in the developer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptucci Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Well, I <i>have</i> grossly overexposed NPH (had to use fill flash, and synch speed is 1/60, on a sunny day), and when I brought it to a pro lab, I told the guy to pull it (they offer it for color negs for a price). The guy really tried to talk me out of it, said it was a waste of money. I insisted on one roll, and all rolls came out ok--a little different look, I can't explain it without going back to the prints, but all were very printable. NPH likes a little (1/2 to 1 stop) extra light, so you've only overexposed by, say, 2 extra stops. These shots are <u>not</u> ruined, and your friend is not likely to notice anything unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 If this were a non reshootable roll,I would shoot a test roll under similar circumstances and process it "normal" to calm my fears.I have shot 1000's and 1000's of rolls of 120 & 35MM NPH,Porta 400NC with all sorts of bright subjects,some of which were probably 5 or more stops brighter than the blackest black.Arm chair experts advice aside,these films have "massive" amounts of overexposure tolerance.You can read up on densitometry,and check the curves on Fuji or Kodak's webby sites.Long ,low gradient "straight lines",and gentle sloping "shoulders" are the way these films are designed.I have lost detail in caucasian flesh via overexposure with these films,but it took a hell of a lot to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar_njari Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 This is two stops overexposure. Usually you overexpose up to one stop to get the extra density for color saturation and finer grain. This is one extra stop, you should get good results without pulling. This is what latitude is here for.The trick is to print it down 2 stops. If it was a slide film then it wouldn't be so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 �Arm chair experts advice aside,these films have "massive" amounts of overexposure tolerance.� Thousands of rolls eh? Sure�But why you insist on calling me names is just funny. Everytime you do, I post your level of �experience� that�s demonstrated in your past threads. Why don�t you tell everyone again that the service of pushing and pulling C41 film isn�t available and that you�ve never heard of it? Funny way to learn with your foot in your mouth. Massive amounts of tolerance doesn�t mean you can be sloppy Max. You have an obligation to provide the best image possible with your knowledge and skill. Normal development will provide nothing but contrast and blown highlights. This, you might be able to pass off as decent to your subject, but it could be better by pulling. Edgar, it�s stated that it�s a three stop over exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Arm chair experts indeed.At a wedding,the bride's white dress,reflects 90% of the light striking it.The groom's black tux (or even a gray tux)reflects less than 10% of the light striking it.This an inherent reflective range of 9:1.If I expose for the groom's suit(which is how I do this),Im overexposing the white dress by at least 5 stops.The difference between a white card and a gray card is 2.5 stops,and the difference between a gray card & black card is also 2.5 stops.The poster's film is only 3 stops overexposed,this is childs play for NPH.As for pushing/pulling color negatives,I still contend this (except for the uninitiated)is for exposure "emergencies" only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007ED4 http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007FkO Remember these Steve? You�ve learned a lot in two months� As Scott E. once said, hate to kick a dog after it�s been hit by a train, but your zone placement practice has nothing to do with the Max�s above ambient reading that accidentally placed zone v to zone viii. Now, with your method Steve, your white dress is �two and half stops� above that new zone of viii, well, happy printing�(making sense yet?) Try your zone method with NPH Steve, but set your meter to 50iso, I dare ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmalossini Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 Eric, is there any particular reason why you (in your second post)(and someone else) say to pull the roll out of the camera now? Can't I just shoot the remaining frames (at ISO! 100)? Anyway, I hope I didn't stir up any long-going controversy. If I average all your suggestions, and I don't know what else I could do, then I will tell the lab to pull-process 1 stop (I believe I could summarize the situation as very tolerant film but still very overexposed), Thank you, Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Max, I recommend pulling it out of the camera because this film is best at 250/320 iso with normal development. If you carry on, the remaining images wont be the best they can be, that�s all. As for the on going controversy, I usually enter every thread fresh and unbiased. He wont argue why pulling is a bad choice over normal development, but I can state why normal dev is a bad route. And then the �armchair� (tired?) label comes out. I just can�t stand anyone asking �what is cross processing� in one thread and then in another claiming to have done �their fair share, even on 4x5� of it, let alone have a discouraging opinion on a practice that is done and seen on half the entertainment magazine covers in your local grocery store right now. Not to mention the people that post questions here and get discouraged from miss information. �Just whack the colours in photoshop� was his advice once. People come here half the time because of the unknown, they see hero icons, and take these words and go off following the hero�s instructions. He�s just told someone this morning to use a daylight c41 film for interior shots, after they have asked specifically about other films, http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008HBE Why? Because he�s a wedding photographer that uses this stock in a limited way and can�t get his mind into the other uses of a camera. I�m sick of it. Listen to what his recommendation to you is; �Over exposing NPH 3 or 4 stops wont hurt a thing, except the highlights/whites might lack detail.� What a hack thing to say. You can, as you know for a few dollars, rescue some of those details Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James G. Dainis Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Zone 5 + 2.5 = 7.5 (the near end point latitude for color negative) + 3 stops overexposure = Zone 10.5 = blocked highlights. Have them pull the film at least one stop to get the highlights back down. Is the film that expensive? Why worry about using the rest of it. Just develop what you have; they won't charge you for prints they don't make. James G. Dainis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmalossini Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 The lab I use, which is supposed to be one of the top in the area (?), does not do pull process for c-41. They told me that I should be able to fix most problems during printing. I haven't turn it in yet, because you all convinced me that it would be best to pull process. I'll try another lab in Charlotte (I don't live there, but my grocery store actually sends their film to this Charlotte Kodak Q-lab, and they usually do a pretty good job).Thanks, Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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