Would you own Leica stock?

It's only around $5.00 or $6.00 a share and you can sell the annual

reports on ebay as collectables.

What exchange is it traded on?

And what is their ticker symbol?

Sanford, would you own a stock that was worth less money per share than fetishists would pay for the company's annual report? Leica has declining market share and makes antiquated, overpriced products using largely overpaid workers in Socialist countries- not a promising business model.

 

It wouldn't quite be fair to say that Leica is akin to the last buggy whip manufacturer after the advent of the automobile. However, Leica has been slow to react to the digital tsunami, marketing Panasonic cameras as its own. Leica is not a company in ascendancy.

<a href="http://de.finsearch.yahoo.com/search/quotes_de?fname_n=txt_name&fname_t=txt_type&fname_x=txt_region&s=de_sort&tag_t=s&tag_n=leica&tag_x=GER">Try this.</a>

The bad news to me was the recent layoffs at Leica. These were highly skilled people who cannot laterally move to another mechanical camera company (as there arean't any) thus they will be adsorbed into German industry but lost forever to Leica. I don't see market demand for film based gear for much longer.

"The bad news to me was the recent layoffs at Leica. These were highly skilled people who ... will be adsorbed into German industry(.)"

 

 

Or not. Germany has an unemployment rate hovering between 10 and 11 percent (putting the 5 plus percent unemployment in the U.S. in perspective):

 

 

http://www.destatis.de/indicators/e/arb210ae.htm

My bet is Leica is sold to a vulture firm, who then sell's it at a big loss to some new Chineese Billionare. Who promptly moves the entire shibang to China, M7's then cost 250$ to make reviving the sales.

 

Gerry

Gerry, very well said!

 

Would I buy Leica stocks? No.

Eric Friedemann: <p>

"Or not. Germany has an unemployment rate hovering between 10 and 11 percent (putting

the 5 plus percent unemployment in the U.S. in perspective):"

<p>

Okay, now let's talk about real unemployment statistics Mr. Friedemann, not the "let's only

count the ones we want statistics in the states". In Germany they are pretty

accurate, maybe 2-3% too low. In America? Do we count all the temps who are

unemployed 1/2 the time? What about the long term unemployed, the homeless, etc. Your

math is biased big time.

<p>

What Socialist countries are you talking about? Canada? Germany? I didn't know they were

socialist countries. Or do you mean because Germany has real public transportation and

free college education, that it's socialist? Okay, I guess that means you didn't buy BMW

stocks either, too bad for you.

Yes, it's true, in America "health care" = socialism, and riding the

bus....well, riding the bus just makes you a loser.

"Okay, now let's talk about real unemployment statistics"

 

I would pit the accuracy of the U.S. statistics versus the German statistics any day of the week. Even the German government admits it has a problem with chronically-high unemployment. Also, the employment statistics track with Germans having a real per capita GDP (purchasing power parity) of $27,600 as against the American per capita GDP of $37,800.

 

"What Socialist countries are you talking about? Canada? Germany?"

 

Yes.

Kipling,

 

Well said... I couldn't agree with you more!

 

Cheers

"Yes, it's true, in America 'health care' = socialism(.)"

 

Well, certainly government-regulated healthcare = Socialism. And on the subject of the potential governmentization of American healthcare, P.J. O'Rourke remarked: "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it?s free."

Mr. Phillips, Germany is well on its way to socialism if it is not there already. My German friends tell me the current leader (Gerhard Schroeder, a socialist if there ever was one) has been driving the German economy into the toilet. If you want to talk reality, America has been moving in that direction little by little but is not as far advanced as other nations of Europe including Germany, Great Britain, France, and Sweden. It's socialism by degrees, rather than in one fell swoop like the old Soviet Union.

 

This is not to criticize Germans in the least, they are the victims. But to get back to Leica. I have lots of Leica stock: cameras, lenses, and accessories. :-) Not stock shares though.

(from Leica web site, warning, their English translation is weak)

 

In fiscal year 2003/2004, Leica Camera Group had to cope with a 17.4% sales decline.

 

The 17.4% sales decline to ? 119.1 million is also due to the effect of external factors. Approximately one quarter of the difference to the previous year?s sales figure results from currency effects of the Euro/US Dollar and Euro/British Pound exchange rates.

While the increasing digitalisation of photography, above all in volume business, leads to sales increases in the industry, it simultaneously causes, at the specialised dealers, substantial losses of margins. The strained financial situation of the dealers leads to a significant reduction in stockpiling of high-quality system cameras and components. Moreover, customers are unnerved by the fights for market share, as well as by the ongoing price slide for digital products. Therefore, a significant portion of the decline in sales of Leica system cameras also reflects distributors? inventory reductions.

On the other hand, sales of binoculars, scopes and rangefinding devices of the Leica sports optics range are developing favourably. The Company?s continuous development of new products is stimulating the business, especially in the hunting and birdwatching hobby segments. The Company was able to achieve 8% growth (currency-adjusted) in this segment.

 

Using technological cooperations, the Company is able to offer attractive digital compact cameras, as well as a hybrid solution for the Leica SLR system. Said solution will unite in one camera body the best digital photography can offer and the well-tried high standard of silver halogenid photography. In just one minute, users will be able to attach the digital camera back to their existing LEICA R8 and R9 cameras, turning these instruments into high-quality digital cameras. The high-quality lenses of the Leica R system will therefore be available for both analogue and digital pictures.

 

In the year under review, the Company has started a project aiming at the development of a digital solution in the Leica rangefinder camera system. Product presentation is expected to be held in the spring of 2006. (No sense rushing these things.)

 

source: http://www.leica-camera.com/unternehmen/presse/data/03904/index_e.html

"In the year under review, the Company has started a project aiming at the development of a digital solution in the Leica rangefinder camera system. Product presentation is expected to be held in the spring of 2006. (No sense rushing these things.)"

 

If this were August of 2000 and it had just occurred to Leica that sooner than later it would have to market a digital M, that would be forgiveable. Four years ago, everyone in the industry was surprised by exponential growth in digital imaging.

 

But this is August of 2004 and Leica has just started working on a digital rangefinder in the last year for presentation in 2006 and for sale in late 2006 or 2007? In the meantime, Cosina/Epson have a digital M that will go on sale this year:

 

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Epson/epson_rd1.asp

"Even the German government admits it has a problem with chronically-high unemployment."

 

Germany has made a conscious policy choice to accept higher unemployment as a consequence of emphasizing low inflation. Germans have a deeply embedded aversion to inflation, both for historical reasons and because of their higher savings rate.

"Leica has declining market share and makes antiquated, overpriced products using largely overpaid workers"

 

This is exactly what they used to say about Harley Davidson. Of course Leica might not discover a winning formula and turn things around the way HD did, but then, Harley was even more of a laughingstock at their low point.

Perhaps if some of you bought new once in a while the company wouldn't be

in such bad shape.

"Germany has made a conscious policy choice to accept higher unemployment as a consequence of emphasizing low inflation."

 

Do you think the German government's keeping the country from returning to Weimar-level inflation is any consolation to the German jobless? To view high unemployment versus high inflation as a Hobson's choice defies our modern understanding of economics.

 

The U.S. has single-digit unemployment with a 3.0% Producer Price Index and a 1.2% Consumer Price Index (2003). We must be doing something right.

"Well, certainly government-regulated healthcare = Socialism."

 

Call it what you want, the rest of the world is shaking their heads while the American system collapses. Our system has failed.

 

Anyway, America's "unregulated" medical system is not unregulated at all, but rather heavily regulated in favor of intellectual property holders and professional guilds. Other countries have chosen to regulate in favor of consumers, emphasizing access and affordability. We'll join them soon; Americans are insular in many ways but they're not stupid enough to accept their health care costs doubling every five years or so. You can see the rebellion taking shape already.

"Do you think the German government's keeping the country from returning to Weimar-level inflation is any consolation to the German jobless?"

 

No, but having free healthcare, education, and other safety nets provides some consolation. Plus, the rough unemployment numbers are misleading -- Germany has far fewer uneducated, hopelessly underskilled people being paid less than survival wages.

 

But back to the topic, no, I'm generally wary of all public equities right now.

The cost of Leica products really is determined by basic economies of scale. They have to spead R&D,overhead and management, material and production costs over a relatively small number of units hence the higher prices. This is particularly so in the R line. People fail to see that if more folks bought the line, production costs could be spread over larger numbers and the unit price on each item would fall.

"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free."

 

Eric I think you need to be careful not to talk about things that you do not know about.

 

The US health care system already is the most expensive health care system in the world. The cost certainly will go up if you add all the people to the fold that are currently falling through the cracks with NO CARE. That is, not without widespread and fundamental reform.

 

I live in the so-called socialist country of Canada and I work in health care. How is it that Americans are flocking to Canada both physically and electronically to grab hold of our cheaper medical diagnostic tests and prescription drugs? Do you honestly believe that our equipment and drugs are any different than that in the USA? Your government is protecting the very institution alluded to above that adds all of the real cost into your system. This is the part of the system that needs fixing the most. The Canadian system is far from perfect. In fact its a mess too in many regards but it does live-up to the world standard of universal healthcare for everyone. Same goes for Germany where even university is free. Even I paid tuition, though not the $35K US/year that MIT was asking for.

 

To get back on topic, Leica would be a loser of a stock to buy.