Worst "I want a Pro, but don't want to pay" listing I've seen in a while

To summarize -

 

"We need an experienced sports PJ with their own highly specialized gear and, preferably their own personal press pass (do those even

exist anymore?) to shoot a major NCAA Div I football game, stadium atmosphere, and conduct post-game interviews, for use on a

website and in a coffee-table book. How much are we willing to pay, you ask...?"

 

Well...just have a look here for details:

 

http://austin.craigslist.org/crg/798134212.html

Would be more believable if it had been advertised on 1st April

Olmissouri.com (Motto: Where photographers get spit on when they work for us. Because hey, we're doing you a favor you stupid nerd!)

 

Pathetic.

typical CL listing

What I like is how they dictate the gear the photographer needs. They did forget one major thing the photographer needs to

qualify for this job. An IQ that can be counted on one hand.

Wow, So I guess they keep the images and the rights to the images also. In the listing they state that they will pay $50 per game. There was a simular listing here in Denver. I will not even get into my car for $50.00. You know, now that I think about it I did once do a photo shoot for $50.00 and that was when i graduated from college 19 years ago. I guess that they wanted to soften the blow of the $50.00 insult by stating how good it would be for the photographers portfolio. Just for grins we should all respond to this craigs list posting and state our own rates and travel fees.

Yes, and I know a place called OZ where the 300mm Lenses grow on trees.

 

Geez, I'm surprised they didn't specify a 2.0 or 2.8 for low light in the venue. Seriously, I'd love to do a mass

emailing to stop clowns like this from abusing a legitimate profession. I feel that the Point and Shoot craze of late

has left those of us who have honed our skills and amassed thousands of dollars of gear in the lurch.

 

I'd love it if Dentistry at Home kits became available. Can you imagine. Just open wide and the computer does the

rest, er sort of.......

 

Some people think what we do is so darn easy, just point, and shoot. Doh!

 

-Mike Edwards, The Phrog in Santa Barbara

I reckon they've listed the "compensation" wrong. Surely should be $500.

"I reckon they've listed the "compensation" wrong. Surely should be $500."

 

I'll bet you $500 that they didn't.

The should have at least offered a free "after the game" hot dog as an incentive.

well, you can all have a good laugh at it but no doubt they will find some naive sucker who'll do it.

Well, let's see what happens: I sent an email, told them $50 wouldn't pay for the gas to get there, and offered to do it for $500 plus travel (round trip from Tennessee) and expenses. Only did it because I have relatives in Austin I wouldn't mind seeing.......

I saw an advert once for a wedding photographer's assistant that said "Must have EOS 1D + about 8 top of the range lenses, particular ones specified + full set of a certain lighting system (a really expensive brand, but I can't remember which) + station wagon car. Position is unpaid for the first six months, rising to £6.50 per hour after that (ie the legal minimum wage here in the UK!).

 

I think the person who took that job would have to be both very rich, and insane.

I think we should all respond asking a minimum of $5,000 per game plus travel, car rental, and expenses.

Incredible. Thanks for the laugh.

I did send an email off for this incredible op.

 

I would be very interested in covering your game. I have shot the Pac10, WAC, XFL, NFL and playoffs. I have shot for

AP, Scripts League and Lee Enterprises. Here is is a link to some of my Football images. I have the a 300mm f/2.8 and

a digital voice recorder. I shoot the latest in Nikon gear and can edit the Audio, and photos on location and send them to

you in about 1-2hrs after the game.

 

Looking at posting you mentioned $50 per game. I am assuming you meant $50 per hour. My normal fee for such a

shoot would be $150 per hour.

 

I estimate this to be about an 10hr day (6hr shooting and 4hr post) for a cost of $1,500 for shooting and post time. Usage

fee for a book, published with 10,000 copies would be about $500 per photo My estimate that would be about 4 photos

for $1000 one time use. Usage for the web would be $1400, per photo for 2 yrs. Estimated need 2 photos for $2,800.

Travel expense $1500. Food and Lodging $550.

 

Total Cost $7,350

 

This is a rough estimate. We will throw in the audio recording usage fee and post production in for free.

I look forward to doing business with you.

 

Thanks

Ralph Berrett

I should raise my prices. No wonder nobody respects me after a shoot.

These ads are all over the place. Wedding photographers, school photographers, sports, etc.. I love the ones

that tell you what kind of camera you should have for consideration, the best. "I prefer applicants with D3 or

D2x setup". I respond to some either because I can't believe what their asking or I just need the practice

writing up photo bids. I answered one ad that sounded totally legit and the response was positive. In the ad,

the person stressed that only serious, non flakes apply. Turns out, he was the flake. Full time biology

teacher, part time photographer "wanna be" giving the profession a bad name. Sad.

I want some free models ;-)))

For the edification of the forum...

 

 

I just wrote him and here is his response...

 

Hi Jay,

 

I'm sorry but I don't think you'd be able to find work if you're charging $5000 to shoot a three hour football

game. You would starve to death. I probably shouldn't have used "professional". But that's basically a third of

my profits from the book if I sell every copy. My original photographer died unexpectedly this summer and we were

going to split the profits. We still are with her widower even though here content is only making up a 1/4 of the

book. If I didn't think I could find quality, competent people at $50 I would raise the price. But I challenge

you to show me your work that is that much better at $5000 than I have gotten from my student photographers at

Mizzou for $50. You can't possibly be that good because I already have good photogs. Plus I could fly round trip

on Southwest, get a hotel room for the night, and shoot the game myself for about $550. So what do I gain by

spending $5000. I makes zero sense. Plus, I alreadt received responses from more than competent people for are

willing to cover the game. Plus, the photogs get to keep the rights after the book has been published. If you're

smart, you can turn that into some money with the crazy Longhorn fans down that way. So I don't think that too

bad. Plus, anybody who's complaining probably doesn't have access anyway. And getting your photos in a book is a

pretty big deal for some people as I'm sure you have never had photos published in a book before. Anyway, thanks

for your interest and take care.

 

Darin Wernig

 

 

 

 

--- On Sat, 8/16/08, Jay <jay@digitalreflections.biz> wrote:

 

From: Jay <jay@digitalreflections.biz>

Subject: Game Photographer (Austin, TX)

To: dwernig@olmissouri.com

Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 3:18 PM

 

Compensation: $50 per game

 

I assume the above is a typo.

I would be happy to discuss the below at around $5,000.00.

 

Jay B. Stevens

 

 

 

My response...

 

Hi Darin,

 

Sorry, the "professional" thing did throw me off. Paying $50 for a professional photographer is an insult. If

you are getting quality images at $50 per day, then go for it. If you feel good about ripping off little kids

who will shoot for you & record sound while you use that work in print and web to make a profit, well, that's the

American way isn't it? There are always the gullible who will take a $50 bill and a press pass and say thank you

for getting screwed. I know I sound harsh, but I really feel bad for the people you are taking advantage of.

Even amateurs make more than $50 per 3 hours of JUST shooting.

 

 

Jay B. Stevens

 

 

 

If this is an improper post, please delete.

"...a major NCAA Div I football game," without the NCAA getting their "fair" share of images being used for a coffee-table book? Ho, ho, ho.

Its really amazing how all the participants in this discussion have totally failed to understand "people". What makes this really curious is that I assume that you are all actually "people" of one sort or other...

 

I know a professional photographer who shoots U of M football games for free just to get sideline access. Nikon D3 and D2x, 500mm f4 and 300mm f2.8.

 

My professional photography consists of macro, product, portrait, figure, and the occasional wedding. Given the opportunity to shoot a really good Detroit area hockey or baseball game on terms similar to this football offer, I'd probably take it, because, to me, it's fun. Yes, the "f word".

 

One thing professional photographers have trouble dealing with is that some people do photography for fun, and some of those people are well equipped and highly skilled. It just goes with the sport.

 

Look at golfers. How often do you imagine the PG tour players sit around crabbing because millions of people play golf each day, without getting paid for it? Heck, those folks pay to get onto a nice course and play golf. Don't they know how silly this makes the pros look, demanding large sums of money to pay.

 

Photography was created by dilettantes, for fun. There are folks here who seem to have lost track of that.

Joseph, I have to laugh a little with your statement. I think you miss the point a little. A professional is getting paid for

his work (even while he is enjoying it) and making a profit, while a mark (an amateur) is shooting for fun. I do not feel

marks are not the issue. There has always has been and will be marks in the future that is where natural selection

comes in. There will always be a Darin Wernig with their books and websites exploiting the innocent. That is life, but It

does not mean I will not point out and mock with humor said situations.

 

When I am hired, I am not just a rented camera. What a client is paying for is my skills, experience, technique, talent

and customer service. If someone wants to rent a camera I send to a rental place. I provide a service. You have to

understand I love shooting against any photographer no matter the skill set. I can careless what they are getting paid. I

enjoy the company and friendly competition.

 

I may love photography but it does not mean I plan on being exploited either. My view is simple marks will get culled

because at some point they will go broke or they will wake up to the exploitation.

As Ralph and Jay have done, I considered contacting olmissouri.com with an appropriate quote for this "job" (which I

roughly figured to be in the $4000 - 5000 range) in the hopes of pointing out the purely exploitative nature of this request.

However, since sports photojournalism is essentially the exact opposite of my specialty and I don't think I could

conceivably pass myself off as actually ABLE to do this "job", I decided my exercise would have little impact.

 

I'm glad some people who are, in fact, qualified to perform this kind of work have taken it upon themselves to at least try and set

this guy straight.

 

Keep it up; the more people who quote appropriate labor and usage fees for this "job", the more likely it is that Mr.

Wernig will stop and think about what he is requesting.

Oh, and, Joseph, the U.S. Open, for example, does not fill the tournament with amateurs because they are willing to play

for no prize money and just want to get on ESPN.