chris_newkumet2 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 All: Lately I've been getting some badly overflashed results in my attempts to use my two 580EXs for fill flash outdoors. The results are inconsistent, but mostly it occurs when I'm using my 70-200 2.8 lens, set wide open or close to it, and cropped relatively tight for a portrait. I tend to set the flash down 1 or 1.5 stops and shoot in open shade. I frequently use high-speed sync in these instances, though I can't swear it's always in high-speed when this happens. I can't think of anything else I'm doing differently from before, when all this seemed to work pretty well and consistently to add a little pop to portraits. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_hall4 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 What ISO, what camera bady, working distance, is the flash zoomed out, have you checked metering mode, what operation mode (AV,TV,M,P). I use AV for this situation, personaly. If it has always worked before (I am assuming here that it has) then it comes down to somthing changeing. Can you try another flash? Try cleaning the contacts of the flash and lens. If the lens is not reporting proper data, it can screw with metering in E-TTL II. Just some quick idea and good info to know to try and help ya. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_osullivan Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Could be a lot of things. What ISO are you using? What metering mode for the camera (spot, center/ eval)? What metering mode for the flash, ETTL, Manual (you said sometimes FP mode). Are you using Aperture priority or manual, or one of the scene modes like portrait. If Aperture mode, which custom function is it set to "Auto or 1/250th"? All these factors influence how the camera meter and the flash behave. A slight change in these settings and/or in lighting could make the flash assume it's the main light as opposed to a fill light. Which sounds like what the problem is. Can you post a sample? Some ideas, there are two ways to set flash comp, on the camera and on the flash, check both. Try shooting some in fully auto idot mode vs fully manual and compare. It's probably a setting you accidently changed. I do it all the time. Last time it happened to me, I had the flash in manual full power mode. With ISO over 200 and in close the Flash can not attenuate enough for a proper exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_hall4 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Sorry, just noticed you are useing two different flashes. I use exactly the same set up, same flash, same lens and same lighting. So I am interensted to see what you come up with. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 ETTL is inconsistent to begin with. Then, how can it know what kind of fill you have in mind? First check to make sure you have the flash metering set on evaluative (custom function 14). In this mode, ETTL will cut the flash (regardless of M, AV, etc.) when the ambient light level is above EV 10, up to 1.5 stops. You can cut it back even more by employing minus compensation. In averaging flash metering mode, the flash does not cut back on it's own, and even though you use minus compensation, the flash will still try to provide what it thinks is adequate flash exposure. I have had your same experience shooting engagement portraits in open shade outdoors and thinking I was getting way too much flash because I left the flash metering on averaging. If the above is not the case, realize, as I said, that the camera/flash can't know what kind of fill you want, plus it is, of course, reacting to subject value. When figuring minus compensation, you should take that into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medina photography cherry Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 What do you have your camera set on? What mode- P, AV, Manual etc What ISo are you using what aperture what shutter speed How far is your subject from the lens what time of day are you shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_osullivan Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Jason comments that you are using two flashes. I also missed that at first. Could it be that one of them is set in Manual mode while the other is in Ettl? I think that could burn out too. It would be possible to do so if you had one of them in group C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_dunn2 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 <p>We need much more info. For instance:</p> <p>There can be significant differences between E-TTL and E-TTL II, and you don't say which you're using, nor do you provide us with the name of your body so we can deduce which one you're using. If it's E-TTL II, have you set it in evaluative or averaging mode?</p> <p>You can figure out whether it's in high-speed sync mode or not by comparing the shutter speed you used for the shot (it's in the EXIF data, assuming you're shooting digitally, which you didn't tell us, either) to the body's maximum X-sync speed: if the shutter speed is over max X-sync, it's HSS, and if it's at or below max X-sync, it's not.</p> <p>How are you controlling these flash units? Wireless E-TTL? If so, tell us the settings you used. If it's something else, tell us.</p> <p>Can you post a sample shot? Perhaps with a very crude diagram of where the camera, the two flash units, and the subject were in relation to each other?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinsouthern Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 If you could post 2 examples (extremes in either direction) it would be very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_newkumet2 Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 OK...sorry for incomplete information... I'm using a 5D, with metering set to evaluative, exposure mode is manual, and this tends to happen when I'm less than 10 feet from the subject... ISO is normally 400, though sometimes I have it down to 100... I'm away from my studio, but I'll try to post a few images when I get back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_newkumet2 Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 ...and it's a single, on-camera flash set to ETTL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 OK--the FLASH metering is evaluative? This is custom function 14 and is not the camera metering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_newkumet2 Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 no, the camera metering is evaluative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_newkumet2 Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 I'll have to check to make sure, but I don't recall setting CF 14...so I assume it's still at the default setting, which would be evaluative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Only one other possibility I can think of (besides subject value). If you are shooting at f2.8 at ISO 400, at focal lengths longer than 85mm, and your flash automatically zooms to 105mm, you may be hitting the minimum distance the flash can manage, if, as you say, the subject is less than 10 feet away. So you'd get overexposure, regardless of how much you ramp the flash down. Don't know, but it's a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mearle_gates Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I've had that problem, but discovered it was a bad hot shoe contact due to the flash not being pushed in fully and not aligning with the pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_hall4 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Personally I think Nadine is on to it. But we will know better when samples are posted with EXIF. It seems to me, ISO 400 in open shade(I assume on a sunny day) with direct flash less than ten feet away and the lens stoped wide open, would be a bit tough. But maybe my ignorance is showing. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_newkumet2 Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 checked last night, and CF 14 is set to evaluative... I'll try to post a few images tonight, so please stick with me on this thread... thanks to all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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