wierd situation involving newspaper. help?

hey everyone, I�m sure someone would be able to answer my question.

I just hope its in a timely manner, because i have to do this

tonight!

 

well, here is my situation.

 

one of my friend's is a scuba diver, and was participating in a

River Clean up event that they had in a neighboring town, where they

basically put on their scuba gear, and pick up trash on the bottom

of the river. whichever team has the most trash wins at the end of

the tournament.

 

i had every intention of going there and taking pictures of the

trash that came out of the river and submitting it to the Austin

Chronicle when i got home, with a brief summary of what happened etc.

 

so once all the trash was lined up in their piles and all that, i

started taking pictures, and at one point a guy walks up to me, and

says " OH.. you have a good camera, why don�t you take some pictures

of this stuff, and a group photo or two and we're going to put them

in the paper.

 

he didn�t ask if i were a photographer. he just assumed i was a guy

with a camera. and truth be told I�m not a pro, but i am trying to

do anything i can to get my foot in the door, and BE one.

 

i would like to ask them for compensation for using my photos,

however, i am POSSITIVE that if i do, they will simply discard them.

( if I did, how much should I ask?)

 

my first question is; Do newspapers generally pay for articles

and/or photos that are submitted to them? if they are getting a cut

for the photos that are submitted, i am entitled to that, since i

took them. but if they DONT pay for articles and photos, then i am

not going to bother asking them for compensation ONLY due to the

fact, that i will get a byline, which to me is fair enough, because

having my name in the paper is exposure!

 

The thing is though, I have to send this stuff to this lady by the

end of the night.

 

Here is the kicker though. The guy who walked up to me, told me

to give the pictures to this one lady, who apparently worked under

him. SHE, is the Watershed Protection Manager for the city of San

Marcos Texas. And the guy, who initially talked to me, is her

boss.

 

I didn�t really have time to make plans or small talk about what

payment I could possibly receive. Again, he just thought I was some

guy who happened to have a good camera.

 

I�ll leave it at that���������.

 

 

Does anyone have a good opinion that will help me in this?

 

Thanks a lot and sorry for the novel..

 

 

mitchell young

newoldsoul.com

Mitchell-- Well, you're in kind of a pickle, but perhaps not too bad of one. First of all, I've worked for a lot of local newspapers, and I can tell you that they'll try to not pay for anything if they can talk you into giving it to them for free. Secondly, working with local publications depends very much on building a working relationship with the editors. Building one with the paper you have targeted will depend greatly on your next move.

 

One thing I would have done is to ask LOTS of questions of the guy who asked you to take pictures. Like, who is doing the writing? Is that person a staff writer with the paper, a volunteer with the organization, a paid organization staffer, or someone from a P.R. firm hired by the organization? These things can make a huge difference. Also ask which editor that person is working with, and if the person is a volunteer, if that person will get paid for the story. And does the organization already have an understanding with the editor of the paper?

 

But I think that the best thing you can do right now is be completely honest with both the organization and the editors at the paper. If they won't pay you anything and at the end of negotiations you are willing to settle for a decent byline, state that. Also, if they will use several of your images--like five or six--that's a huge thing! That could be considered a photo-essay. Trade a big byline for that, and I'm sure it will be worth it.

 

Personally, I wouldn't get hard-nosed right off the bat (wait until you have exclusive shots of some big news event for that). Again, the most important thing is the relationship. Make the editor understand that you are doing him a big favor, and that you are somebody who is easy to work with.

 

How much will you get for the shots? From experience I can tell you that The Washington Post pays $125 for their more favored freelancers, and that's per article, not per image, unless it's something big. The local county papers in the DC vicinity pay in the range of $55 to $75 per image.

 

Think of it this way, how much would you be willing to pay for a good working relationship with the photo editor? Call him up and ask him with format he needs the images in. Ask technical questions about his needs that show you know what you are doing and can help him.

 

It might take four or five incidents like this before you start getting paid, but after you have the relationship, it gets very fast and easy. You aren't going to get rich off of it, but I did it for years in my spare time and it at least paid dance class tuition for my daughters, and then some. -Bill C.

wow bill, thank you so much for your comments! that helped quite a bit.

thanks!

Live and learn. What you've explained happens often. You'll find that when you are working on an assignment, often people associated with the event will try to squeeze some pics out of you for free. I think people assume it's no big deal for you to email them a copy or quickly snap a photo for them. However if you want to be taken seriously and do this for a living, you need to know how to handle those situations. If you are freelancing and you don't have an exclusive contract with a paper, you should let them know right there and then when they ask you to take a photo for them that it will cost. If you end up staff somewhere, you need to explain to them that your photos are the property of the newspaper and they are welcome to contact the photo reprint department and purchase a photo. Don't give your work away for free, even to a newspaper that you're trying to get your foot in the door with. Ask for a reasonable fee based on the size of the paper and the amount of work you are submitting. Most small weeklies pay $5-$25 per photo. Papers do accept photos without paying the photographer, however you will often see the byline reading: "photo courtsey of ..." versus a freelancer byline like: "special to the ..." Editors know the difference when they look at your clippings. Make sure you get paid.

Mitchell-- I had more to write on this subject last night, but I had to bug out. (One reason I'm not shying off about giving you lots of information and opinions about this, BTW, is that my literary agent asked me to come up with a book proposal on how to make money shooting local news, and writing this helps me put my own thoughts in order.)

 

Imagine you are back in that same situation again. The guy comes up to you and says the part about how you have a good camera, and will you take some pictures for the paper.

 

You can say, "Well, that's my intention! What editor are you working with at the paper?"

 

"Bob Smith, the Metro editor."

 

Then you ask the question about who is writing the story, a staffer, volunteer, or paid flak from the organization. If the article will be written by an unpaid volunteer from the organiation, then just maybe they have some basis for getting free images from you. However, if it is any of the others, they will be getting paid, and so should you. If it is a paid staffer or someone from a hired P.R. firm--even if they are doing it at a reduced rate--then you might say something like this:

 

"You know, I could probably get some really good coverage for you and your organization if you are willing to foot the bill for the images. Since you guys are a non-profit, I'd be willing to take care of them on a cost-plus basis. If the paper doesn't have to pay for them, they're more likely to run several shots instead of one. As long as I get a decent byline out of it, I'll be happy to accept a lower rate."

 

"Uh, well, I guess so," says The Guy from the organization, "But you know, we really don't have that much of a budget."

 

"Well, the extra publicity you get will no doubt attract a lot of people to the organization. It would be more than worth it."

 

"I suppose," replies The Guy. "But you have to get me the prints by tomorrow."

 

At that statement, loud alarm bells should be clanging in your head. Unless they are paying you thousand-dollar plus day-rates, they do not handle the images. You handle the images. Your reply should go something like this:

 

"Oh, you don't need to worry about that. I'm working with their photo department directly. I need to coordinate with the photo editor on technical specs, anyway. I'll just make sure that the photo editor hooks up with Bob Smith so they know they have art to go with the words."

 

Now you have an excuse to chat with the photo editor. Be helpful and professional. You also have an excuse to chat with Bob Smith. And lemme tell you, having two names at a local paper is far better than having just one. Only one may be in when you call, or neither of them may be in. You have no idea how often big news stories are screwed up because the word editor doesn't know that there is great photography to go with the article. This has even happened at a large Washington D.C. daily paper that I won't mention the name of, and my images were the ones that the word editor was looking for and couldn't find because the particular photo editor who knew about my images had to go out and cover a breaking story.

 

Anyhow, if you get the organization to spring for the images at say, $15 or $25 per printed image, you can tell the photo editor that the images are free this time. If that's not the case, honestly tell the photo editor that you went to the event with every intention of trying to sell the images to his publication. If he says he can't pay you, then see if he can do three or five photos with a big byline.

 

This will help you in the future. Instead of saying, "Well, I'm not published yet but I'll be trying to sell these images to the local paper," you can say, "I'm a freelancer and I do work for the Austin Chronicle (and whatever other publications you may have been published in). In future situations of this type, this will change the equation radically. You go from some wannabe to someone who has an "in" with the publication. You don't need, say, the people with the scuba organization, they need you.

 

But you have to remember not to EVER abuse that "in." Always be honest with the editor, and he'll be happy to work with you. Not only that, but if something like this comes up later on, you can call the photo editor ahead of time and mention that you will be covering it, and you can tell him he can save the cost of sending a staffer to the event. If the publication is made up of scumbuckets then they will take your info and send a staffer (though they might have already assigned on), but if they think you might be able to do the job, they will save their expense--after all, if they don't have room to run the images, they don't have to pay you.

 

Additionally, make sure that your copyright and phone number is on every image you submit. If the scuba organization asks for prints to hang up on their wall, get them to sign a delivery order stating that the images and the copyright belong to you, and that the prints are for display only, and that any requests for use of the images or prints of the images goes through you and you alone. If they complain that they are paying for them, then make sure you say, "Well, that's the only way I can give you such a low rate."

 

If the paper won't pay for them and the organization won't pay for them, and later the organization wants prints, charge $30 for an 8 x 10.

 

Let us know how it turns out.

 

Bill Cornett

 

Publication clients include:

 

National Geographic World Magazine

 

The Washington Post

 

The Cleveland Plain Dealer

 

The Baltimore Sun

 

Baltimore Magazine

 

Washingtonian Magazine

 

Times-Journal Newspapers

 

Time Magazine

 

Newsweek

 

Life Magazine (The Year In Pictures issue 2003)

 

The Montgomery Gazette

 

The Prince George's County Gazette

 

American Heritage Magazine

 

Quick Magazine (Germany) and numerous European publications

 

Former Photo Editor, The Prince George's County Herald Newspaper

 

Former Director of Photography, Sidelines Magazine

Perhaps I'm a bit late for the comments I'm going to add...but here goes anyway.

 

Near the end of your message you state:

 

"...<he> told me to give the pictures to this one lady, who apparently worked under him. SHE, is the Watershed Protection Manager for the city of San Marcos Texas."

 

By this statement, I am guessing that the guy who initialy approached you does not work for the newspaper...but in fact, works in some capacity either for the city or county and is looking for photos to submit as press releases. Now this is an entirely different can of worms.

 

Firstly...were you the only photographer or person with a camera on the scene? If so, your pictures may be unique to that particular event and of some (perhaps limited) value to the city department that this fellow works for.

 

Secondly...if, in fact, this guy works for the city, maybe as the department head...chances are...once he gets his hands on your work, he will include the pictures in press releases that could potentialy be sent to and published by every local and regional news-type publication in the area as well as be used on the city departments website, etc, etc...

 

The fact is, small local papers pay very little for one-time use of photographs from freelancers. On the otherhand...publicity photos touting the great works of organizations, city government, business, etc. pay fairly well. It's up to you to get the information...as much information as you can about how he/they intend to use your photos.

 

I won't even suggest a price-range for use based on the information you've provided, but will provide you with a link to one of the best news and information groups for the freelance editorial photographer. Editorial Photographers, at www.editorialphoto.com is well worth a look at for soemone like you aspiring to break into editorial/journalism photography. Check it out.

 

Best of luck,

 

Tony

to bill and tony... thanks for the information, both have very good points.. and i will definitely save a copy of these responces for if i need them again.

 

i did in fact find out more about this, the original guy worked for the lions club which was hosting the event.. or rather, offered a place for the event to be held.

 

he reffered me to the lady who was the manager i spoke of. i talked to her about this, and she said that she and her secretary were the ones writing the story, and would submit it with the pictures.. i talked to her for a good 15 minutes and got things squared away, and agreed to just give her those pictures for free under 2 conditions..

 

1 they put my name on them

2. they send me a copy of the paper,

 

she also sent me a copy of the story they wrote so i could submit it to other papers etc

 

she also mentioned that they have somewhat of a need for a photographer to take pictures for their informative brochures, landscape shots in different areas, for meetings, and other events they have. so i will be getting a call about that.. bill you're more than happy to add a chapter about that if you want!

 

and, this is un related, but figured i should mention, i got a JOB this sunday. i'm working for a world renowned photographer as her photoshop person, and taking some shots here and there for her!

 

things seem to be looking up!

 

thanks again for all the help. hope you see this