Wide Angle Lens, Filters & Vignetting

I have a Nikkor 10-24 (77mm thread) on a crop sensor D7500. I want to get an ND filter for shooting waterfalls, but want to do what I can to avoid vignetting on the wide angle.

 

- I have a UV filter on already and ideally would like to keep that on for protection.

 

I was looking at getting an ICE 77mm thread - https://www.amazon.com/ND1000-Filter-Neutral-Density-Optical/dp/B00GMXD9E8/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1530984184&sr=1-3&keywords=ice+77mm+10+stop

 

- To avoid vignetting, should I shoot closer to the 24 with that lens? Would that take care of it? Or should I instead get the ICE 82 mm and a step-up ring from 77mm to 82 mm?

It is generally not a good idea to stack filters - take off the UV and replace with the ND when that is appropriate.. I have a B&W UV on my Nikon 10-20 and use the correct lens hood as well -- have had no vignetting when used on my D 7200.

Stacking filters is the best way to guarantee vignetting - so don't do it. Buying oversized is one way to avoid that - the drawback is the the lens hood won't fit.

 

A 10-stop 77mm ND filter for $30 - I have strong doubts about the optical quality and certainly about color neutrality. Working with a 10-stop isn't easy either as you can't focus or meter through it. I suggest looking for a vari-ND filter - gives you flexibility for your exposure settings and can stay on for focusing and metering. Just make sure to get one that's color neutral. And expect to pay a bundle more than $30 in any case.

As said, avoid stacking filters on UW lenses.

 

For a 10mm DX lens, I'd also stick with Nikon-branded filters or otherwise be sure I was getting a "thin" filters(I've seen B+Ws that were as thin as Nikons, but you have to be careful with this).

 

I know that my 18mm f/3.5 AI-S Nikkor would vignette with even a standard thickness filter and could basically only be used with a single Nikon filter. The 18-35mm zoom I have now in its place has a 77mm filter thread and doesn't vignette at 18mm with a single standard thickness 77mm. I'd think that 77mm would be pushing the limit for a 15mm equivalent lens.

It is generally not a good idea to stack filters

 

Yet another voice supporting this, especially in regard to wide angle lenses. You don't need the "protection" if you are putting on another filter.

You usually need some serious ND for waterfalls. I don't know how they do with WA lenses, but have you looked at the Cokin products? That's what I got for the purpose and the results were decent.

"Working with a 10-stop isn't easy either as you can't focus or meter through it."

 

- I wouldn't be too sure about that - it depends on the camera's LiveView gain.

I have a 3.0 ND (1000x/10 stop) for my Sony a6000. The camera does a good job of focusing and allowing viewing through the filter. I don't have a D7500, but I suspect its LiveView ability won't be much behind the 3 year old a6000 design.

 

BTW, you'll never get zero vignetting with a strong ND filter. The oblique light rays have to pass through a greater thickness of filter glass than the paraxial rays. Therefore there's a stronger ND effect at the edge and corner of the frame than in the middle. The thicker the filter and the wider the lens angle, the greater the vignetting. (My 3.0 D filter is a Heliopan and is thick as a brick; consequently its vignetting is pretty awful at only a 16mm focal length!)

 

Having said that: Stacking the ND with a UV filter certainly won't help.

Edited July 8, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1

One other thing-if a lens is prone to vignetting even with a single thick filter, using a step up ring generally won't help any. Step rings tend to be as thick if not thicker than a standard thickness filter. IF you can step to a larger size without the ring itself vignetting(on a 77mm you'd probably want to go to 87 or 95mm) you're usually okay to stack a filter or two, but you still have to be careful.

 

Going back to the 18mm AI-S I mentioned above-step rings are out of the question with that lens as the ring itself will vignette. The lens really should have been made with a 77mm filter thread, but at the time 72mm was Nikons standard large size.

 

To my knowledge, Nikon has never made a 15mm or wider full frame lens with front filter threads. The old 15mm AI/AI-s has internal filters, the 13mm uses rear bayonets, the AF-D 14mm f/2.8 has a gel clip, and the 14-24mm f/2.8 has no official provisions for filters.

- I wouldn't be too sure about that - it depends on the camera's LiveView gain.

You're right - I was only thinking about the optical viewfinder; never even used one with live view.

Take a look at the NiSi range of products. I use several of their ND filters down to 17mm with no vignetting but do need to remove my uv filter first. Not cheap but excellent quality and great colour accuracy

Colored filters of any sort will vignette when used on a WA lens, because the optical path is longer the greater the angle of incidence (tangent law). The filter ring in modern WA lenses is much larger than the objective, so vignetting due to the filter ring is not a problem. If you stack filters (never a good thing), all bets are off. You can do a rough check by stopping down completely, and seeing how far your fingertip can go over the edge before you see it in the finder.

+1 on step up rings to over size the filter, no vignette that way.

You would also be able to use a larger hood by stepping up.

FYI, lenses for mirrorless camera tend to have much smaller objectives, relative to the filter ring. Vignetting, with a single filter at least, seems to be a thing of the past. I have a Batis 18/2.8 and Batis 25/2 which fall into this category with a 77 and 67 mm filter ring, respectively. Same thing with a Loxia 21/2.8 and a 52 mm filter.

Colored filters of any sort will vignette when used on a WA lens, because the optical path is longer the greater the angle of incidence (tangent law).

 

Interesting challenge for filter companies to make graded filters, lighter near the edge, to undo this effect.

 

Probably not in solid glass, but maybe in gelatin between glass.

 

It doesn't have to be exact, just close enough.

Colored filters of any sort will vignette when used on a WA lens, because the optical path is longer the greater the angle of incidence (tangent law).

 

By the way, in addition to the tangent law, you also have to add Beer's law: absorption is exponential in the path length.

 

For many color filters, though, ideally they have a sharp cutoff, such that at each wavelength transmittance is either 0 or 1.

In that case, there is no difference.