WHY!

I was wondering if some of you feel the same way that I do. I get so

frustrated at times, about how you never here from a bride after you meet with

them. The last few meetings I had seem to go real well and last for about an

hour or more. I have a complete wedding to show, and good products. I don't

claim to be the best, and I not over priced. Last Saturday, I had a meeting

with a bride for a wedding at the last moment. She told me that see loved

what I had and she would call Tuesday to set up payment. Well Tuesday came

and went, and still no call. I e-mailed her some info she wanted and told her

my electric was out and wanted to know if she tried calling, but I got

nothing. Has this happen to you, and do you get frustrated? I know that she

decided to go with someone else, but I would like to know why. Is it wrong

for us to ask such a question, WHY? I mean we take time out of our lives and

most of the time travel to meet with them, don't we have that right. I'm not

going to yell at them, they can tell me that it because I'm ugly, I don't

care, I just wish they would let me know WHY! I am new in the business and I

feel that I can't grow or change if they can't tell me what is wrong with me

or my work. Any way at the end of my meeting I had tonight the bride said, "I

will let you know in a week." So I asked nicely, "Could you please let me

know either way, and if you could let me know why. I would greatly appreciate

it. It would help me out a lot on improving my work." She said she would, I

guess we will see. Have any of you ever call or asked a bride that decided to

not go with you, WHY? And so how did it go? Do you want to know, or do you

even care what they are thinking?

I asked the why question twice. Both times the answer was "lower price". So that is acceptable to me. The other thing is on one of the meetings I felt no "click" with the client. Was happy in the end not to do he wedding and do someone else instead. Don't sweat it too much. Important thing is to stay confident. If you don't appear confident in your meetings they will pick up on it. Make sure you don't show too much of the product unless they are really interested, otherwise mainly focus on your images. That's all I can help as I am just beginning (first year charing).

I've never asked why, but I ask who a lot.

This is the norm. 50% is good. I don't think it helps to get frustrated or even ask why. You are better off asking why someone chose you instead and work on those points, your strengths, rather than worry about what may be weaknesses since they will hardly ever tell you the truth.

 

'Lower price' will often be a euphamism for 'I didn't like you', your presentation, your attititude, your work etc etc. Most people would not want to risk upsetting you no matter how much you say you wouldn't be.

 

Let's assume tha last bride felt that you were too pushy so she tells you. So you change your attitude. You lose the next bride because you weren't ascertive enough - now where do you go?

 

Please remember the other 3/4 photographers she's met! You are in good company.

 

I used to get hung up on that a long time ago but I know what my brides go for and work on that.

 

If you are on the internet think about the fact that only 5% of visitors will even give you a call, what does the other 95% think of your work? It doesn't bear thinking about so don't.

 

You cannot hope to meet everyone's requirement. Next time you get a client choose you ask why and strengthen that up.

Welcome to retail Jamie. Dealing with the public isn't easy. If you asked why someone

didn't go with you you'd be pulling your hair out with even more frustration.

 

I find it hard to track the status of potential clients. They enthusiastically sound like they're

going with you, and when you follow-up you get the dry "we decided on another

photographer". Asking why will just put them on the spot and it will get awkward ... or

dismissive which is even worse.

 

I have sat through a zillion Focus Groups as companies try to divine the purchase intent

for their products verses the competition. Unless you are a highly trained and experienced

moderator, you'll never hear the real reasons.

I have found that that is a heavy burden to place on a consumer. Most people are afraid to tell their honest opinion (I guess that is a good thing).

I asked a couple (not why they did not choose me, but rather is there anything that I could approve upon) It took her 6 months to reply, and when she did she told me it was my racist comments. That really blew me away. They live in Philadelphia (they are a white couple) and I was travelling through a very bad neighborhood and had to photograph a roof top installation for the company I work for. I was getting looks like crazy (had my $3600 camera out for all the world to see)Now in this neighborhood people get killed for a hundred dollar pair of sneakers.

Anyway, I was trying to have conversation and was expressing how unsafe I felt- They took that as racism. Anyway, I learned an important lesson-Keep my mouth shut and only talk about either Photography or the couple and ask them alot of questions.

Oh well, what ya gonna do?

The greatest hitters in baseball, hit between .300-400 batting averages. This means that they make an out 60-70% of their times at bat. A good sales person knows that you win some, and you lose some.

 

 

I nomally "close" about 80% of my sales at the initial meeting. This means 20% walkout. And in my experience, very few of these "walkouts" ever call back.

 

 

Sure it's frustrating to talk your heart out for two hours, and have them leave. But this builds character, and makes you a better sales person. Most photographers/salespeople will over analyze their failed presentations to find correctable flaws.

 

 

In reality, many brides are "just looking". This is why web sites with samples, and prices to pre qualify can help a lot.

Jamie,

 

I agree 100% with Marc....never put someone on the spot. I like what someone said...find out 'WHO'...and examine the difference...what they have...or what they don't.

 

Dave

Think of the last time you shopped for a car or any other big ticket type of item ... did you shop around and possibly tell the salesman you'll "be in touch" or you'll "be back on payday"... yadda, yadda.

 

It's not a personal thing; it's just the nature of "shopping".

 

My strategy is to congratulate them on deciding on a photographer and let them know that if there's anything I can do for them in the future to not hesitate to call. The TRICK here is to be Sincere in your intent and the voice Tone because they will pick up the truth. The truth is that I'm happy for a couple who has made a decision on a big ticket item like a photographer and I want to wish them well in a sincere manner.

 

I also know about all the stories we've heard where the couple ends up not being pleased with thier choice of a wedding photographer and when they talk to others in the future it's quite Possible that they will say "I wish I'd gone with (insert your name here).

 

When I sincerely wish them well and let them know I'd like to be contacted if there's anything I can do for them in the future, and it's done with sincerity, then you've created a potential customer if not just good will towards yourself for not making them feel uneasy in their choice.

 

It's really Easy to do ... just tell them you appreciate being considered and that you're excited for them ... and mean it!!!

 

It's like photography: Create a Good Image and end it with a good Print (imprint).

Whenever you ask the question "why" it will typically put people on the defensive. I agree that if you ask "who" that it will be easier to get a response and you may be able to spot the differences between you and them, once you know the who.

 

But, to get the best info, develop your networking with other vendors. When you have a good working relationship with them, then they can give you the "inside story" about how your meeting went and the actual "whys" of who they ended up going with. As an example, a while back I met with a couple, I had photographed at their venue several times and they had seen full weddings of my work, they loved my images, especially the sunset shots and wondered how I did it and exactly what time of day the shots were taken. I told them that since the shots were digital that I could look at them and tell exactly what time of day they were taken...we could simply look at the sunset schedule for that day, match the time of day with their date and we would know the primo time to start the ceremony and leave us the perfect time for the formals (I emailed that info the next day). I was "sure" I had the job but after a few weeks figured something wasn't right. I knew it wasn't my price, altho I seriously thought that my prices may have been perceived as being too low (this was an expensive venue with some really serious money involved). Well, a couple months later I spoke with the venue coordinator to see if he/she could get me the inside info....she/he had been the referral source and has been an advocate of my work. Their story was that I was "too digital, complicated, & fancy" with my digital captures and storybook albums with all the options for special effects, sloppy borders, etc....and that they just wanted fairly simple, straight forward photography. "Oh, and the groom has a family member that's pretty good with a camera". So, now you can fill in the blanks. Well, God bless 'em....I hope they get "nice" purty pictures and I'll bet I can tell you exactly what time their ceremony is scheduled to start :-)

Jamie,

 

Rare is the time I meet face to face with a bride and don't make a sale unless it is my choice. (I stay clear of any potential Bridezillas.) While I can say my skill is acceptable I am no Monte Zuker or Denis Reggie. I am also not a bargin basement photographer. I learned years ago basic principles of selling that I have worked on in photography and other businesses I am involved in. I will share some basics and then tell you where I first heard of them.

 

1. People don't buy based on logic or PRICE. They buy based on how they FEEL. (this is why star bucks sells coffee they pay 3 cents a cup for to the consumer for $3-4.) When I sit down with a bride I view myself as an assistant buyer. I will use her money to help her purchase my services.

 

2. I ask for the sell. In several other businesses I have been involved in I was astounded that on roughly only ~3-5% of the sales calls did the sales "professional" actually ask for the sell! I have only been on a couple of sales presentations with other photographers but I immediately saw the same problem.

 

3. I NEVER speak cold or negative. By this I mean I have a ready answer for any question I think the b/g may ask. I have found that many brides have very similar concerns so I have made a list of potential questions they may ask and have memorized and practiced answers to them. No matter the situation I have a list of negative words I refrain from using under any circumstance. A brief example, If a bride has an issue with her weight I NEVER use the terms "heavy, fat, PHAT, large, big, etc.." (even if she does) I will say something to the effect of, "I have had tremendous success enhancing the beauty of curvy brides and I see that same potential here."

 

4. I never ask for money until I ensure that I have adequately put a motive to purchase my services into the mind of the B/G. I do this by asking a series of questions and subordinate questions. A subordinate question is one in which if you ask it and the answer is yes you have made a sale but if the answer is no it does not mean you haven't made a sale. (You get to ask another question)

 

5. I practice, and continually strive to improve upon, my ability to listen to the b/g. (This is also how I weed out Bridezillas) What they do not say is often as important as what they do say.

 

There are several other Keys I use but I hope you get the idea. I know this will sound strange but I learned these and my other techniques from two primary sources. (1) Napoleon Hill (Your Right to be Rich, Think and Grow Rich, and the Law of success in 16 Lessons) and (2) Zig Ziglar, Secrets of Closing the Sale and many other materials he offers.

 

As a final perspective on price, I don't buy into all the hype about digital. There have always been low cost alternatives to professional photography. There always will be. That is like Mercedes saying, "Oh my God Hyundai makes a cheaper car letﾒs lower our price!" My suggestion is that pro wedding photographers quit marketing to the Wal-mart bride. Start marketing to people who shop at Neiman Marcus, Lord and Taylor, and Sacs 5th Avenue (there are plenty of them too.)

 

 

I hope some of this will help you or others.

Don't even bother to ask why. Just move on. Very typical for ANY type of sales.

 

OTOH, I try to have a 'observer' with me a lot of the time (usually by wife). We debrief later, and my goal is for her to pick up any subtle messages (and sometimes not so subtle) that I'm just missing. That can be a good learning experience (especially since guys just don't read women as well as women read women).

 

You can try that - but you need to be VERY open to listen to the comments you get from your observer. You will try to rationalize what you did, and it's irrelevant.

 

That's how to get better. But you can expect a percent of 'no sales', and you'll never know why. Don't let it make you crazy, just move on to the next one.

WOW! I really love the stories and thanks for making me feel better. I was afraid to post such a question, but I know now all of you will help, in helping me understand. From now on I will come to you first. If you talk to family and friends they agree with you ALL THE TIME and that can get you in to TROUBLE. Any way about the bride I thought I had, maybe is a good thing she didn't choose me. She wanted to fire her last photographer, although she didn't seem like a BRIDZILLA, she probably was hiding it so I would talk with her. I keep telling myself things happen for a reason, and that you can't win them all. I will just keep growing and hopping that I get more work. When I first started out my first year I got 7 weddings, last year I had 16 weddings, and this year I have 22 weddings I only have 4 booked next year, is that bad, I'm really not sure. It's hard to predicted what next year will be like because the last few years are nothing a like. Any way thanks for everything, I feel SOooooooo MUCH BETTER. You guys were a lot of help.

my old roommate is planning a wedding and had a LOT of stuff to plan. sometimes people just need a lot of time.

 

obviously, if they never call, then they don't want you, and you are doing something wrong. perhaps price...perhaps the meeting didn't go well in their eyes...

btw - I will sometimes ask who they went with. if the price was the same and all was comparable, I feel okay asking if there was a specific reason for the decision, and I mention that I'm always looking for honest, candid feedback to help me improve the services I offer to other couples. a surprising # of couples will write me back when I ask this way.

We recently shot a full-price wedding for an old family friend (their neice). When their daughter got married, they didn't hire us - we were invited guests (the mother said it was because she wanted us to enjoy the wedding and not be "working" which we appreciated very much).

 

We were very enlightened when this woman discussed with us her daughter's quest for a wedding photographer. As mentioned above, reasons ranged from "that guy had great pictures but he was a jerk", "didn't like his appearance", "no personality", etc. etc. etc. The lady they chose just perfectly clicked with the bride. Her work was average, her prices a bit higher than average, and she did an adequate job covering the wedding. Despite average work, she was able to secure a higher price simply because her personality and the way she presented herself were a perfect match for the bride.

 

There are thousands and thousands of reasons, some logical, many not, why you might not be chosen by a potential client. I think it is good advice to not put too much off topic conversation into the sales presentation (the example of not feeling safe in a neighborhood posted above is a fine example of this), and just be yourself. Explain your shooting style and goals, show them great examples of your skill and talent, and just be relaxed and yourself. Things will either click or they won't.

 

While a little analysis is a good thing (maybe you smell funny ;) or there is something else that is easy to fix), you'll probably drive yourself crazy if you obsess on why someone didn't choose you. More often than not the real true reason they didn't won't make any sense to you anyways. :)

I went car shopping last week. I had a price in my mind of what I wanted. Dealer #1 was a fast talking Yankee, the type that invades your personal space when having a converstaion. Pushy, fast talking, detail/gear junkie that got on my nerves from the first moment. Low balled me and insulted me basically with his tactics.

 

Dealer #2... easy going Yankee (all Myrtle Beach citizens are transplanted Yankees)a guy that didn't really know his product all that well (he had just moved from GM to the Honda dealer a couple weeks ago), but he strived to find out info and was only moderately pushy. He actually met my price with a couple of phone calls asking what I wanted... no hard sell tactics!

 

Did #2 get the sell? Not yet, still mulling it over. Do I want actually want a stripped down Honda Element and give up the luxery of Envoy? Actually my wife says no...

 

Doubt they are asking why but who? Hell, I don't even know why or even who... and I got my target price.

Apart from the specifics of Phillip's post, the larger point he was making should be re-emphasized. There are real techniques to selling, and they apply to selling your services as much as they apply to anything else. Having ready answers to common questions, as he explained, gives you credibility and control, and helps create confidence.

 

You need to practice your sales pitch. You may have a terrific personality, and be well-loved by friends, family, and small animals, but none of that is going to close a sale. Follow Phillip's sugestions and put some proven techniques into your presentation. In short, be prepared.