Why I hate Ebay or " Rip Offs R Us"

I have documented my rips off now I invite and demand you who read

this to help your comrads in avoiding the scam artists out there.

Oooookay!

Where is this "documentation?"

Do not bid without a 'no hassle return policy', read photonets feedback about dealers and sellers, if somebody with 0 or 1 or 2 feedbacks bids the gear up more than it is worth quit bidding.

 

Don't bid on camera gear when the seller introduces himself/herself as someone 'who doesn't know anything about cameras', sells 'as is', can't give you detailed and clear pictures of the gear, and of course when you bid over $200.00 for gear on e-bay you are gambling, e-bay has a funny attitude about this because they charge the amount of what they make based on the amount of the transaction, the more you spend the more they make, it just doesn't work both ways, they don't use any of those profits to back you up for risking big bucks.

 

 

Feedbacks can be a good indicator of someones honesty, they can be a sham, I refuse to give some folks a positive feeback, rather I just go mute and don't give them any feedback, that way they don't retaliate by giving me a negative feedback for blowing the whistle. Feedback is something that should be given out by a third party but this is wishful thinking on my part to expect e-bay to change how feedbacks are given out.

 

Feebacks + word of mouth + plus positive responses from the seller to your satisfaction + escrow/a no hassle return policy is the only way to go especially above $200.00.

 

Bid with you heart and not your head and you will eventually be burned.

The worst 'piece of #@&@' ever sent to me that was broken and cracked and looked like it had been repaired by a blindman with Cerebral Palsey was represented to me as being a mint lenshade.

You can wait until just before the 90-day threshold to leave a negative feedback, particularly if you're careful with the timing; it's like sniping for feedback.

Well, I've not been hurt yet. I've sold two expensive items and I've purchased over ten thou worth of camera gear with no probs but I don't take many chances. I ask copious and involved questions ... if I get a curt incomplete reply back ... I don't bid. You can tell a lot about folks by engaging them in conversation. I only use paypal although it costs me. If they don't take paypal don't mess with them unless they are an established house that takes credit cards direct. Always remember .... if it's too good to be true .... it probably is. Also I don't bid on items offered by people who don't offer any info on why they are selling the item or whether or not they are the original owner. I find that good sellers want you to know the whole story. Ripoff artists hide themselves. Look for personal info under the 'me' icon and also Fair Trade.

Edward's comment "I have documented my rips off" is a bit confusing -- he probably means his responses to "OT: Don't try and fence those lenses on ebay" = http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005RnB.

 

Overall, my experiences with purchasing on ebay have been good. The only methods that are clearly better for buying used items is buying in person so that you can see and handle the item first, or by buying from a used equipment vender with a superb reputation. That aren't that many opportunities for the first way and the prices tend to be high, and there are only a handful of LF specialists in the second category. Buying used items by mail has always had it pitfalls -- I once bought a "mint" camera from a dealer -- it arrived with a engraved social security number.

 

Look either for sellers who routinely offer photographic items, or look for useful photographs of the item, or best, both. In your bid allow for the possibilty that the item will be slightly less good in appearance. If there is a major problem, politely ask to return the item -- on the few times I have done this, the seller has always agreed.

 

Know about the item you are buying. For LF lenses (fully on-topic!), unless you really trust the seller, it is best to independently verify the coverage of the lens, and whether it is multicoated. Coverage claims based on viewing the image on the ground glass may not be correct for someone who wants to enlarge negatives. You can use the advanced search on google to search past postings on this forum

(http://www.google.com/advanced_search, limiting the site to www.photo.net), and the advanced google newsgroup search (http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search) to search the postings on the newsgroup rec.photo.equipment.large-format. There is also much information in the Large Format Photography page, http://www.largeformatphotography.info/. Schneider has excellent webpages about their new and many past lenses. Various people have webpages with information about other brands of lenses.

Ebay is like a huge garage sale. Some of us do our homework; grub thru and do alot of research and searching; get there early; and get fanatastic deals; which offset the few mistakes by a huge margin. Those who dont do their homework; check completed sales; feedbacks; payment methods; and compare prices to stores with warranties; are bound to have problems; and hence declare the "Ebay is a rip off"...........They would be better to buy only brand new equipment; from strong dealers; and get the service and warranty they require and need............<BR><BR>The same is true of buying a used house or car; people do vary with their tolerances; and ability to do homework; WHICH does consume ALOT of time; and does add to the total cost.....of "getting the item"..............This is not a complaint of either type of person; some ebayers pay alot more than what local stores sell the same item; he there is some addiction problems; where "winning" the item is the goal; and not whether it makes any sense money wise............<br><br>some of the Ebayers I have bought from have been repeats; that have had several years apart.......One Ektar I purchased was boxed with two; and a note to have fun with the "spare"; at no charge!........I have never had B&H send me twice the items I've ordered; when the price was 70 dollars.......<BR><BR>In a purchase of a zorki from the Ukraine 3 years ago; I used paypal; a mightly; 21 dollars; and got the camera; lens; and case in 8 total days.........I also ordered a lens from a guy in Texas; and used PayPal the night of the auction.............The seller farted around ; and waited many days to ship the item; which I got after the camera in the Ukraine; both won on the same day....; and paid by paypal.............

'Ebay is like a huge garage sale. Some of us do our homework; grub thru and do alot of research and searching; get there early; and get fanatastic deals; which offset the few mistakes by a huge margin. Those who dont do their homework; check completed sales; feedbacks; payment methods; and compare prices to stores with warranties; are bound to have problems; and hence declare the "Ebay is a rip off"'.........................................................While this may reflect the spectrum of personalities dealing on e-bay, I don't believe it is quite the accurate characterization or rational as to why folks believe they're being ripped off.

 

Whether folks do their homework or not, more folks are being ripped off, the guy who represented himself as a woman STATED that her Mamiya 645 Pro-TL was pretty brand new, had only been used with a few rolls over a two week period before SHE decided to go digital, SHE went on to explain that it had just sat for the better part of a year and oh yes there were a couple of scrathes but SHE didn't know how they got there.

 

I asked 'her' every question in the book, several times, the pics of the camera looked good, so I was presented with a picture of a woman (a very creative con based on the 'Granny only shot 10 frames with the camera before she died' routine) who seeming bought a camera which he/she clearly stated had been used for only two weeks, what tipped me off was my contact with her after the transaction disappeared and was now getting e-mails from a man who was selling the camera for her.

 

Naturally when the 'mint/used for only two weeks' camera arrived with black matte paint covering deep scatches, a raggedy motor, worn off paint in other places, a loose wobbly fitting prism and motorwinder, I researched the guy who took over e-mail contact with me, he has a website based out of New York with quite a bit of work, and considering the condition of the camera he did a lot of the work on the website with the camera he trie to stick me with.

 

My point is doing your homework and researching a deal in a methodical manner is protection/a tool for cutting through the bullshit and getting the best deal with a basically honest seller, it is not a protection against a conman/accomplished liar intent on fraud.

 

I've done about 45 deals, I'm experienced, so my concern is not for me but the folks who don't have experience because e-bay rightly or wrongly is the way now for the crook to defraud with a lessor chance of getting caught, .................................the law, legislation will eventually catch up, will eventually clean a lot of this up, in the meantime the kid who is just starting out with not a lot of money will be hurt if they've blown a roll on scam and don't really have all that much money to recover.

 

I have gotten some wonderful surprises on e-bay, I won a bid on Zeiss Super Ikonta IV which was advertised as mint which went for a very low price I believe because of the way the description was worded by the seller about the camera, I got this camera and it was brand new/as new, no smudges, nothing, squeaky clear brand new with a brand new smell, I paid roughly $200.00 less than what I shoud've paid for the camera in that condition, and got a brand spanking new Agfa Super Isolette the same way out of the UK, but there are crooks out there, too many of them now that know how to push all the right buttons, give the right answers, although their achilles heel will always be their answere to whether they will give you a hassle free/no questions asked money back guarentee, nowadays I demand this, no guarentee, C YA LATER.

Ebay does not rip people off. I suspect this is nothing more than natural selection in progress, the intellectually challenged will fall for the scams, and then whinge and whine. Good, hopefully they'll not return and leave the system for the more able.

I've bought and sold a fair amount on eBay and the only trouble I've had was two non-paying bidders. In both cases I was merely at the end of a trail of nuisance and eBay kicked them off.

 

I suspect that eBay could do a lot better job for everybody if it demanded a credit/debit card number from every member and ran a standard automated credit check - these take a few minutes and, I've been told, cost pennies if you're connected to one of the big agencies.

There are many trustworthy sellers on eBay, including many of the members of this

forum. There are also a few folks who are dishonest. To prevent getting ripped off, as

Kelly and

others have suggested, one must do their research, not only on the object itself, but

the seller. Read the feedback carefully with a critical eye, look at the other items

which the buyer bought and sold. Dishonest sellers count on your lazyness.

 

Ebay is rarely a great deal, frequently for unusual or desirable objects price is higher

than at second hand stores, this however doesn't make the seller dishonest. At the

same time, I have found things on eBay which I would never have found elsewhere,

and for this I am thankful.

 

Caveat emptor, buyer beware!

The advice to not bid if the seller claims to "know nothing about" the item is not always valid. I bought a perfectly good Zeiss Ikonta this way. The seller simply bought it from an estate as part of a box and sold it. After checking it out I think I could have sold it for twice what I paid, but I like it so I will keep it. I think the best policy is to be carefull, and see if the responses you get from the seller make sense and are well formed. If they don't answer all of my questions I assume they have something to hide.

People who whine about Ebay want factory new stuff at the Ebay price. What's your Ebay handle Edward so I can add you to my blocked bidder list.

Sure many of the things I've seen here are right abuot risks in buying on ebay and the real deals being a few. But I want to contribute a different point of wiew: for all you fond of LF and living in the US, finding the gear you need is easy. In Europe, and expecially in Italy where I live, LF photography is completely unknown: to buy a box of 8x10 film could need two months waiting and a price double than B&H. Ebay is a good chance to find used stuff at fair (at least for us) prices with the possibility to see what you are buying. By the way my Canham I've bought it new at Badger Graphics (payed 20% less than the best price in Europe), but I've found many good lenses on ebay at one third of the price it would have costed here. I too have thrown away 500$ in a Leica M3 (mi first bid!)that was mint as advertised except for the fact that there wasn't anymore the rangefinder in it, but if I make the balance of all the things bought (after then I've become more cautious) this is anyway positive...

I don't think that I've ever got a "good deal" at eBay, but there's a lot of stuff on the market that simply wouldn't otherwise be available. Always pay by credit card if it's more than $200.

While I've bought a few big ticekt items on ebay, I moslty find it's a goldmine for things like super graphic cams, reducing backs, polaroid film holders and the like that I would have to spend a month of Sundays searching for otherwise (and there isn't a used camera store for 1000 miles, so that's moot anyway).

 

touch wood I've never been scammed on the big stuff, just mildly disappointed a couple of times on the smaller stuff. And of course, I've been able to sell off my old junk to by more, future, old junk.

 

I'd say the worse are the "over demanding" buyers (who usually don't seem to read the auction in the first place) - like one who bid from a country that wasn't listed in the auction, then wanted to pay by a method that wasn't listed (cash) rounded down to the nearest five dollars, then got upset and indignant because the cost of shipping was too high for him (to his distant country). I've had that kind of thing more than once. I think annoying buyers can be as much of a pain as crooked sllers sometimes...

A recent article in the Wall Street Journal stated that .01% of all Ebay transactions are fraudulent. That is, 1 in every 10,000. Compare that to you chances of paying the sales price at a major department store when they scan it at the register, and you�re not paying attention.

 

My wife and I have completed about 100 purchases on Ebay and never been cheated.

 

I just purchased a camera that was described as �minty�. The seller only had 29 completed transactions but they went back 3 years. Most were purchases but he had 100% positive feedback. He had one prior sale in the dollar range of this camera. He would take Paypal. He insisted on insurance (good). I would describe this transaction as being on the edge of where I wouldn�t have placed a bid.

 

�Minty� would mean to me, almost mint. When I got the camera in (he shipped it second day air) it took over 30 minutes with a magnifying hood and strong lighting to find evidence that it had ever had film in it, and it is over 20 years old.

 

In general I recommend that:

 

Don�t bid more in dollars, than 5 times the number of positive feedbacks.

Don�t bid if the seller won�t allow you to pay to insure the shipment.

Don�t bid if the seller hasn�t been registered very long.

Don�t bid if the seller has masked his feedbacks.

Don�t bid on an expensive item if the seller doesn�t have a history of selling similar priced items.

Please� don�t bid more than full boat retail out of NY, for new in warranty, on a used item. It ruins it for the rest of us. ( I tried to buy my wife a used battery holder for her Contax, and TWO people bid more than the NY new price.)

Don�t �buy it now� for $25 for a Nikon F5. (Actual example) Yes it is a rip off, DUH!

Beware of people that want a money order and won�t take paypal.

Beware of sellers that say they don�t know anything about cameras and most of their prior sales are cameras.

Watch the resellers that bid. If someone with 1000 completed purchases drops out at $100, you need to bail out at about twice that.

 

Lastly beware of �shill� bidders driving the price up. I recently saw a camera bid up to about twice it�s value. The bidder that pushed it up, didn�t win the auction. The winner only had two completed transactions.

 

Even though there were almost identical cameras selling later, he never bid on them. Wouldn�t you expect that someone that wanted a particular camera bad enough to pay twice what it was worth and didn�t get it, would keep bidding on later listings till he got one?

I always thought it would be kind of interesting to have a forum somewhere

that just allowed us to post comments about the sellers and merchandise on

Ebay. Sort of like our Feedback database but broader. I wonder what the legal

implications would be?

.."a forum to comment on the merchandize"

 

-Yeah there are alot of things id like to comment on like:

DONT BUY THAT CHEAP IMITATION 'focus free' CAMERA

and

HEY YOU cAN BUY THE SAME FILM BRAND NEW FROM THE MANUFACTURER FOR LESS!!

My experience on E-Bay has been good. I bought a Kodak

Commercial Ektar from 'a little old lady ' who knew nothing about

it. When I received it, the shutter didn't operate. I had it repaired

and let her know about it. She said she wasn't aware of it, and

promptly sent me a check for the repair price, saying she was

not interested in ripping anyone off. My only gripe about the

system is that dealers have taken it over. Starting out as an

auction site for plain ole' folks like me, it has now become just

another sales opportunity for the sharks. Yeah, yeah, free

enterprise and everything, but is there any place commercial

interests don't invade?

As has been said before, Ebay does not rip people off.

 

I'm tired of hearing people whine about ebay. Ebay does a great job of trying to protect its consumers. Before Ebay there was alot of used equipment being sold on forums like this one and Medium Format Digest, etc. What kind of guarentees do you get from those?? There are also merchant websites and mail-order catalogues/classifieds.. And just like Ebay you need to do your homework on those else take a chance to get a deal. Ebay is a great place to get decent prices for a wide variety of merchandize. Perhaps the best thing about Ebay is the variety of items you can find. Just look around locally and try to find a lensboard for a busch pressman or a mamiya press heilicoid for a project camera... GOOD LUCK!

 

Here are some of the complaints ive heard:

 

1. The merchendize was damaged/not working.

-Ebay is a lure for people who want to commit fraud, but there are many ways to protect yourself. The feedback system is great, allthough I wish it gave you more space to explain the problem. If someone does have some negative feedback, it is important to READ the feedback. Also check the feedback of the people wo left the comments. Some people will write totally stupid comments, but the responses (or lack of) will really show that vendors disposition. Where else can you read comments from customers that arent hand-picked by the vendor??

 

People know that well-advertized items fetch a better price, so most people do their best to describe the item as best they can. The good thing about buying from real photographers is that they take great photos of their product! Some people just dont know about the items they are selling. So buying from the uninformed is risky, but then those items usually sell cheap. So take the money you saved and get it repaired or CLA'd!!!! If you are buying a big-ticket item and are worried about the vendor, THEN DONT BUY IT! Buy it direct from the manufacturer.

 

 

2. I paid too much for the item.

 

Well dont bid over what you are willing to pay. DUH! -if you think that someone is trying to drive up the price SO WHAT!! -you still are buying the item for some amount you are willing to pay. Dont cry because you didnt get to STEAL that item for 10% of its value.

 

3. Someone sniped me!

 

If someone put in a last minute bid on an item, and you were willing to pay more, then its your own damn fault. If most people would put in proxy bids equal to what they were willing to pay we wouldnt have snipers! Dont cry because you didnt get to STEAL that item for 10% of its value.

I've made around 100 deals on Ebay, either as buyer or seller. Early in my Ebay experience, I got stiffed once by a seller who refused to honor his own quarantee. Selling my own stuff, I've run into a few deadbeat bidders, eventually relisted the items and sold them. I've bought 35mm cameras (4) along with a pile of lenses and accessories, plus a large format camera, light meter and all the other assorted goodies that endeavor requires: no problems. At all. I am choosy about who I buy from. Sellers with little or poor feedback need not apply for my money. Even so, when I wanted a 300mm f/2.8 lens I got cold feet and went to KEH.<P>

As someone else noted, it's like the world's biggest garage sale; I've found things that would take years of looking locally or weeks of calling 800 numbers, often for a small fraction of what the item was worth. Homework to weed out what you do and don't want to bid on, plus patience to wait for the right deal, are the main requisites to success.

E-bay and the folks who run it, as opposed to the folks who use e-bay happen to be two different issues, there are two sides to every story so if you want to quit something, quit dismissing the other side of the story as whining, either there have be been some legitimate and specific points made by the other side or they haven't, that is what a forum is for and that is what this is a forum.

 

Anyone would be a fool to not take the good advice given here on how conduct business over e-bay with lowest amount of risk, e-bay has given me some great deals, but it ain't perfect, there are things they can fix, if somebody else hates e-bay, well that's their thing not mine.

 

Yes you are right about some folks undue expections of e-bay, and as far as sniping is concerned, that's just the breaks, your Doctor tells you that you have caught something but he can fix the problem with antibiotics you gonna call him a whiner, hell no,................................................ this thread is simply an excercise in passing along concerns from people who probably like me use e-bay again in the future, which I almost undoubtedly will , even though at times I've felt like Ed Burlew.