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Why are Photographers (artists whatever..) , so serious?


travis1

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Hi. Not to try to start a flame war, but hopefully to gather some

thoughts altogether..

 

Why is is that some photogs get all worked up when their work is

being brought down or deemed to be critised "unfairly"? Ok, a pro may

find it difficult to accept because he makes a living out of his work.

 

But for a casual shooter? Why get upset or abusive over negative

comments sometimes? Look around PN and you will find some of them.

 

It's probably an ego issue. I know, I have been there. But now, I

really have given up wasting energy on all these to and fro egoistic

exchanges when faced with one. I just let what may come to me.

 

Are we too serious, sometimes?

 

 

please no flame..just something off my chest.;)

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I agree with you, Travis. Most people have a hard time separating critical reviews of their "art" (be it photography, drawing, painting, sculpture, whatever...)from a perceived personal attack. I believe that discussions of techniques and equipment useage should not be confused with negative subjective opinions on someone's personal creative style.
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If I wanted an authoritative, respectable critique of my work I'd submit it to a gallery, photo editor or maybe even a pro whose work I admire. I wouldn't bring a gourmet meal into a McDonalds for the patrons to evaluate and I wouldn't post my images to an internet forum to be critiqued by every Tom, Dick and Harry with an ISP--including a few Dicks with a personal agenda against me because I stuck the needle of truth into their fantasy bubbles at one time or another.
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Yes, we are way too serious, travis.

 

but i do believe it largely is the human thing - no one (before they grew up) likes to think (or be thought) they are no good for what they are doing the most serious. for most of us, photography, although not our profession, certainly is the most enjoyable thing we do in daily basis. and we like to believe (or be convinced) that we are good at it, although often time we are not.

 

lots photographers, when criticized, either by public viewers or their close ones, claim the very failure as their intention. how often we heard a photographer says, when pointed out something not so good in a photo, that's my intention or started to blame the viewers as non-educated visually? just about every day. kiss my *ss your intention. no, my friend, you failed and admit it. let's be honest.

 

if a photo itself can't attract viewers, educated or not, the art has failed. art itself in the first place is and should be the tool of comminucating bridge from the artist to the viewers. if art fails to bridge that, then it is art's fault, not the viewers.

 

i have given up that ego thing as well which i think is a good thing if used properly. you can only learn from failure and harsh criticism. listen to what others have to say and learn from it.

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It's pretty clear that the free exchange of ideas is not so welcome

on this forum as it used to be. I've stayed away recently because

I was told that my posts are "boring and annoying." Obviously,

one does not post here if one has a fragile ego! I guess if I

possessed as hard a shell as Jay I might be a more frequent

participant. The increasingly abusive tone of some of the

members is somewhat disappointing.

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Who you calling SERIOUS! you bag of wind. What gives you the right to judge me? It's

an outrage, an affront to my sensitive psyche. HOW DARE YOU !!! I am a funny guy.

My MOM says so. I was born with multiple funny bones. I LOL at many of the posts

here... can't you hear it ? This one is especially hilarious, it's a serious question about

being to serious. Don't you see the humor in that?

 

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha, (gasp) ha, ha, ha. ha, (snort) ha.ha.ha. he. he. he.......

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I'll give my two cents wortth Travis, because I'm likely one of the people you're wondering about. This issue has been brought up before and is where the W or NW concept came from. I'll speak for myself here...I've 25 years photographing, 10 years with gallery representation here in Edmonton, gallery shows throughout Canada and the U.S. and published internationally (yea, I know, whoopee for me). When I do post an image it is to SHARE it. That's it!! If I want a crit I'll go to the people who I respect for their knowledge of photography, art history, and art theory in general...not someone who sits at a keyboard all day, picks up a camera every couple of weeks (even if it is a Leica) and feels he'w knowledgeable enough to pontificate on the subject of art critique. I know to some I may sound like a priss here, but if anyone of you (I think you know who I mean Harv) wish to compare CV's or gallery sales the last few years (a substantial part of my income comes from galleries) please do so. Maybe then I'll respect your crits a bit more.
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Marc, you sound like Jay gave you too much nitrous oxide.

 

Jay, as a medical professional you should know that women tend to have a higher tolerance for physical pain than men. On the other hand they have a bit less for emotional trauma. That might well account for the lack of females here on the forum, not wanting to put up with all the catty comments.

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Bob, I have always liked your work and I don't really think you are a "casual shooter" anyway ;).

 

I guess what I wish everyone who shoot casually not to take themselves too seriously at times, especially not on the net!;>

 

There is just too much negative energy going on here and it dilutes all the joy of sharing our works.

 

hope it makes sense.

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<<Jay, as a medical professional you should know that women tend to have a higher tolerance for physical pain than men.>>

 

Men have a lower threshold but their male pride keeps them from letting on they're hurting until the pain is unbearable; women have a higher threshold but once it's reached will burst your eardrums and shred you like a cabbage.

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<<women have a higher threshold but once it's reached will burst your eardrums and shred you like a cabbage.>>

 

 

Man, it must be really painfull to live with me. Since I have been married my eardrums are in a constant state of ringing.

 

 

To be serious though, I think sometimes the seriousness of a post comes from the fact that it is a typed word and not a real time conversation. Jokes can easily be taken as an insult when it is written. Of course, last time I got a black eye it was because I was joking - I love family christmas parties.

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>>Bob worte: If I want a crit I'll go to the people who I respect for their knowledge of photography, art history, and art theory in general...not someone who sits at a keyboard all day.<<

 

Bob: I always respect your photos but it really is too bad that you are only making them for art critiques but not for common people. I would want the other way around. That's just the difference b/w you and me. I would pay more attention to what common people on the street have to say instead of art gallery owners. But that probably also explains why my stuff still find few places or nowhere to be exhibited, except passing them on to hands of people I photgraphed.

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In an earlier life I was employed to test expose 126 Kodacolor cartidges for EK. I was carefully taught to use an Instamatic 500 which allows for properly exposing the film. Instructions were given for time of day and color content (green was a regular). After an innumerable number of cartridges I was consistent in providing properly exposed film. The point is that my picture content was totally irrelevant, the exposure only had to be correct as the film techs had no interest in image content. IMHO a bad exposure can be exquisite art and a perfect exposure pure junk. I would hope that Forum commenters explain their critique so the poster gains valuable insight not only to what is good or bad, but why along with suggestions for improvement. Anything else is a commenter ego trip.
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It is an interesting question. Part of the answer might be to ask why we take photographs. It might be an assumption that the reason why people are on the Leica forum is that they have wandered into a zone of photography where they are pursuing quality. They may be taking sunsets or Johnny jr. shots, or their cat, or some lovely lady. We post what we think is good, better than average. When some people reject that opinion of the photo, we mostly take it as a personal rejection. I often do. A wise old professor of mine once said a couple of points that bear on this:

 

"Most people have a serious lack of self-confidence."

 

"People often take things too personally."

 

"Three rules to live by: Don't judge. Accept rejection. Ripeness is all."

 

Ripeness is all is from King Lear. That one is a bit of a prism. Different people take different ideas from that. I sometimes think that it is pointing at the importance of and the fullness of the moment -- living in the now. And that photography is a form of expressing both self-confidence and of valuing the moment.

 

If someone points out a technical weakness or a compositional flaw, I try to evaluate their point. If they do it sarcastically, sometimes my blood boils, but almost always I dont evaluate their point for very long. And a lot of comments are just a matter of taste, just a division in subjective response. Some people just dont see the pursuit of quality in street photography; others can't see the point of another sunset or flower macro.

 

My anti serious photography project for the year is to take along with me when shooting photos, a small dog toy which is himself a wide eyed red dog. I plan to place him in a variety of situations and take environmental portraits of him.....just for the fun of it.

 

Belated Happy New Year to all you Leica-phites or should that be Leicafighters?<div>0073Lu-16113984.jpg.f3060c6ed90d1654f1f170317aee4cbc.jpg</div>

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Damnit, Travis, we're ARTISTS! And, as such such, we have a right (nay, an obligation) to be as temperamental as we damn well please. Whether someone is recognized by their peers as a real artist is irrelevant. It's a mindset: I've got an expensive camera; I devote a lot of time and emotional effort to this; I have developed a level of proficiency beyond a mere novice; and, I'm starting to fall in love with my own work. Equals, ARTIST. I'll bet my black turtle-neck sweater that there is not an artist around who appreciates criticism of his/her work. Constructive comment, maybe, if handled tactfully; but not criticism.

 

Dennis

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Wentong, you've misread what I've said (or else I haven't worded it the way I'd hoped). Firstly, yours is one opinion around here I appreciate, mainly because you have the balls to post a lot of stuff, and secondly, when I've seen your comments on others work it is on things like composition, or whether it moves you or not. What I don't like is the nitpicking that sometimes goes on here about muddiness (hard to judge on a Walmart monitor), cropping (sometimes Harv people crop body parts to creat tension) and the such. I like to think the average person 'likes' an image of mine enough to hang it on thier wall (which is what's most important)...but again, after 25 years of doing this if I want a realistic assessment of my work (the kind of assessment that may cause me to make changes) I'm going to go to someone who knows as much about the craft as I do (after 25 years I've accumulated a pretty fair amount of knowledge), rather than someone who is an accountant (or whatever) 40+ hours a week and a photographer for 1. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.
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Travis:

 

-The issue isn't specific to photographers. Look at PC gamers or car owners as an example.

 

-Primarily, it's because photography involves some significant investments, bcause few people can afford the absolute best and most have to make financial efforts to buy something that's even in the middle of the price range, and don't like to hear that their investment isn't perfect. Everyone feels very proud about what they own and wants to feel comfortable by pretending that anything cheaper is much worse in terms of quality. Since for most people there exists something more expensive, this is a guaranteed source of disappointments. Worse, people get defensive, and even if you make an assessment which you think is fair and which you mark as being a personal opinion many people will feel attacked.

 

I can write that I switched from Nikon to Canon because I liked the availability of cheap pro glass, i.e. the pair of f/4 L zooms. Without saying more, I'm sure that many Nikon owners will feel offended.

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