Why a M7

M7 seems to defeat the whole idea of leica Ms, will the m8 or m9 be just like a contax g2.Leica need to read their own brochure.It seems to me they are loosing their way.They have done all this before with the R8(NEED I SAY MORE).More gadgets to go wrong,more and more dependancy on the tool doing it for you.I will never forget my batteries going on my nikon 801 at a friends wedding.My understanding

of leica Ms is that you take the photo not the camera,that is the whole idea of the camera.Correct me if i am wrong.

this is true of all cameras: "you take the photo, not the camera"

<p>

I don't care for automation, and will stick with M6 TTL's (i like the

size of the shutter speed selector)... but if somebody wants that

automation they can go right ahead and get it for all i care. There

are enough M6 TTL's out there to last me a few lifetimes.

I have asked myself the same question. As long as I am able to set the

corrent time/aperture I wonder what I use the M7 for. However I am

apparently not the only Leica customer so there might be others who

will likely use the new features. As long as Leica does not kill their

own heritage I am fine. And with 5 Leica M6 bodies I will be able to

inherit some to my kids....

There are lots of situations when having the camera pick the

shutter speed automatically can be handy and not compromise

the quality of the exposure.

<p>

Control comes from knowing when the camera will do the right

thing and when it will not. Whether you set the shutter speed dial

by hand or the camera does is not all that important IMHO.

Personally, outside of providing a tight (1 degree) spot, it's hard

for me to see how the M6 could be improved. And it seems as if most

of the improvements for the M6 have made there way into the M7. As

far as batteries go, I don't know what to say about someone who

doesn't carry spare batteries for an important occasion. After all, I

carry spare batteries for my M6. You can carry enough spare batteries

for the M7, in a minimum of space to last a lifetime. I think I

caculated by six spare M7 type batteries take up about as much room

as 1 AA. I just hope the M7 doesn't become another M5.

Allen and others. Even if you don't use the AE feature (and who

among us would not use it if it were there?), the M7 has other useful

features. For one thing, it has a more accurate shutter (whether in

AE or not) with nearly continuous settings. That is to say, the

shutter accuracy is greater and the exposure accuracy is greater. In

addition, the VF window is multicoated to reduce RF patch flaring.

Not to mention high speed sync (1/250-1/1000) with the Metz flash

unit. These sound like useful features to me. However, others may

disagree.

The M7 is a real Leica.

<p>

It work exactly like a M6TTL, but faster.

Sorry dude, but a Leica M7 rocks the house and doesn't defeat the

purpose of Leica M's. Only a crappy photographer will defeat the

purpose of Leica M. And there is a saying: take a photo by all means

necessary.

It seems if you're under pretty consistent lighting throughout a

scene there's not much need to fiddle with settings. I preset the

aperture for lighting and DOF needs, then it's just shutter and focus

to worry about. I like my M6TTL, got it in Jan. and could've waited

for the M7.

I would better depend on a M7 made by Nikon rather than Leica.

Until Leica has proven the M7's reliability in the marketplace, I

will not be convinced. Prove me wrong Leica....I dare you!

The main problem I forsee for the autoexposure of the M7 is that

it makes the exposure from a spot metering, not a center

weighted or a matrix metering. therefore lots of wrong

exposures may occur. (when AE lock is not used of course). It is

the opposite with the spot metering of the M6 that gives the

photographer the exact exposure after one has decided wich part

of the photo has the highlights, where are the shadows and

where exactly to aim the spot metering to get things right!

Marco. I don't understand your comments. The metering syste in the

Leica M7 is exactly the same as that in the M6. There is AE exposure

lock so you can meter on something appropriate and then recompose.

You would have to do exactly the same thing with an M5, M6, or

M6TTL. Only the M7 will give you a more accurate exposure, since the

shutter speed set is essentially stepless. The M7 was designed to

give MORE ACCURATE shutter speeds as well as exposures. Of course,

like any manual exposure system, it must be used with some care and

thought.

<p>

The metering pattern of the M6/TTL and M7 are identical. Neither is

a spot meter, but a cenral circle corresponding to 13-23% of the film

image area depending on the distance to which the lens is set. This

may be considered a "large" spot, but is the pattern preferred by

Leica, precisely because of the problem you mention with metering a

timy area not representative of the entire scene.

<p>

Kristian. I don't think Leica needs to prove anything to anyone.

After all, they did develop the first commercially successful 35 mm

camera and gave produced an excellent series of M cameras and an

outstanding series of lenses. Anyone who is concerned about the

first batch of cameras having particular problems can buy the camera

with USA passport warranty. Any problems will be fixed (or the

camera replaced) without regard to the cause.

<p>

Personally, I would be more concerned buying a state-of-the-art

autofocus auto everything camera because there are far more things to

go wrong. Anyway, anyone who doesn't like the electronics

incorporated into the M7 doesn't have to buy one. But my guess is

that most of you M users will eventually end up owning an M7 sooner

or later. The same goes for the M8 and M9 :-).

Marco is spot on about AE exposure :-)

<p>

It is quite conceivable that in blotchy contrasty lighting or high

contrast subjects that the AE exposure is all over the place, thanks

to the fat spot metering pattern.

<p>

Finger tip single exposure AE lock is great, but only for a single

frame. It is ergonomically awkward to make sure that a sequence of

frames is consistently exposed, in AE mode, in the sorts of

situations I have envisaged as being challenging.

<p>

To do that, the only solution would be to switch to manual.

<p>

Multi-exposure fingertip AE lock, in addition to the single exposure

lock, (perhaps incorporated into the sliding on/off switch around the

shutter release) would have greatly increased the value of AE in this

camera.

Mani and Marco. Maybe so. I didn't think of that aspect of the AE

lock - that you have to repeat this operation for each frame. But if

use an M motor at 3 FPS (for which I myself have no need), is there

enough time for the camera to make new AE measurements for each frame

or will it just use the original AE locked exposure. I would think

the latter is more likely, but I don't know. This issue only comes

up because of the AE feature.

<i>More gadgets to go wrong,more and </i><p>

My primary camera is a Mamiya 7. I've used it through the Central

American jungle and in North African desert. I've worked in pouring

rain in Europe and on the street just about everywhere. I have yet

to have a problem, ever, and the Mamiya 7 is more dependent

on "gadgets" than the Leica M7.<p>

I would also point out that the press photographers has delivered

consistently from Afghanistan with almost all digital cameras in

unbearable conditions and have yet to complain about their

equipment. What are you doing that is so much more likely to

cause "gadget" failure?<P>

<i>more dependancy on the tool doing it for you</i><p>

Photographers, <i>photographers</i>, always do it for themselves

regardless of the equipment.

The M7 is one case where I won't be able to offer my opinion for a

while. Until the bugs in the M7 (and there will be) are documented

along with their fixes, and the prices fall several hundred dollars

(and they will) I will continue to use my M6 classics and my Hexar

RF.

I'm sorry Allen, but every time I read something on this forum about

cameras that are dependent on batteries I have to go look at the

calendar and see what decade we are living in. Those tiny little dinky

batteries take up no room and cost next to nothing. The lithiums last

forever so why not stock up and be prepared for crying out load. If I

can carry eight extra AA lithiums in an extra holder for my Canon

EOS-3 just in case, I think I can handle having an extra battery for

my M-6. Geeezzz!!! And on another note -- the best photographer I ever

met once said "It ain't the arrows, it's the Indian."

--------------------------------------------------------------

This whole batteries thing is such unadulterated rubbish. You're

telling us you're worried about batteries, typing on a computer

connected to a global network of other computers, you watch TV, drive

a car, use a cellphone, listen to the radio and so on and so on. Go

and buy some batteries. Put them in your pocket.

<p>

If your nikon failed during a wedding it was your fault, not the

camera's - you should have had a load of spare batteries.

<p>

Yes, yes, the Leica philosophy! No batteries = good pictures, the

best cameras were made fifty years ago, etc etc. What a load of

nonsense.

Isnt everyone missing the point here. The M7 is meant to compliment

the M6 ttl which is going to still be produced alongside the M7.

They are 2 different cameras and will always be preferred by some

people and hated by others. Lets see if they are more reliable than

the first R8 cameras! ;]

Sometimes I wish I worked for Leica. Like right now. Never a dull day!

Just imagine having worked on the M7 project for the last few years

and now the thing is coming out.

<br><b><i><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Read all about

it!</font></i></b>

<br>Hundreds of  <b><i><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font

color="#00CC00"><font size=+1>"Wow!"</font></font><font

color="#000000">s</font></font></i></b>,

hundreds of  <b><i><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font

color="#FF0000"><font size=+1>"Eee!"</font></font><font

color="#000000">s</font></font></i></b>.

<br>All at the same time!

Sorry cannot resist, have to say this.When you change clothes dont

forget your batteries.Make sure you have got the right ones.Get your

wife to remind when you go out to say dont forget your batteries.Make

sure you dont drop them out of your pocket.I just love them anyone

got a spare battery for a *****.

Gee, we Leica photographers must be sorry lot! Nearly every other

35mm camera on the planet needs batteries to operate these days and

yet people make great photos with them. Yet it appears from some of

the above posts that Leica shooters are just too darned stupid to put

an extra set of batteries in their camera case.

How is your new FlashBangWallopm896.I hear you do not have to bother

to turn

it on,or even bother to press that bothersome shutter release.Just say

take,hold on tight and it whirls around taking photos.It even took

some nice

photos 40miles away and some of the craters of the moon.l hear is has

improved your eye for a good photo and improved your tech skills.And

if you

do not like what it took just change them in photoshop super to what

you

thik they should have been like.I am sure it has brought out the real

photographer in you.That pink leatherette battery holder for it is

really

wow,looks as good as the camera.And the company has kept to

tradition by

othering it in the original colors.Luky you

On the battery issue...

<p>

Howevver, the average technoblitz camera winds up in the trash

in 10-15 years. A Leica can reasonably be expected to last over

50 years. Will the required batteries still be available in 50

years? I dunno. I have my dad's old Instamatic fromm the 70's

that took Mercury cells. Can't get batteries for it any more. With

an M6TTL, in 50 years you still have a good manual camera

(sans meter) if the batteries go away. With an M7, well, may be

you retrofit an M6 shutter to it ;-)

Watch me get branded as uptight for this.<p>

I've got a Konica Hexar that works well for me, and I just traded for an M6. My wife and I will be spending something like a year

overseas (Guatemala, Honduras -- don't know for sure as she'll be an MD but not board certified yet. We're working on the details)

in places where even Peace Corps workers have problems with parasites because you can't pack in enough firewood to be able to

boil all the water you drink (no roads or infrastructure).<p>

I find the idea of a camera that will work fine without film to be very comforting. I don't know that I could do the same with 2 available

shutter speeds as I could with the full range of speeds available -- I could very likely make it work, but not nearly as well.<p>

That's not to say that I make camera decisions based on whether the cameras are fully manual or not (though in MF I <i>am</i>

drawn toward Hasselblad 500's and Rollei TLR's), but I think it's reasonable for some of us to say it's one of the features we look

at.<p>

Of course, if you never leave the city then these concerns might not affect you at all.