Who made early 35mm folding base rangefinders?

I have just bought a Zeiss Super Nettel which Zeiss introduced in

1934 following the Contax in 1932. It is a folding base 35mm camera

with the Contax focal plane shutter and coupled rangefinder. The

folding base board meant the camera could be carried insonspicuously

in the pocket.

 

This raised in my mind the question... who else made folding base

35mm cameras with the sophistication of the coupled rangefinder. I

can only list pre-war the Super Baldina, Certo Dollina and Kodak

Retina 2. Post war I would add the Voigtlander Vitessa with its

folding barn doors.

 

Can anybody help me with a few more?

 

Patrick

There was the beautiful Weltini II, made by Welta. This one has a 2.0/50 Xenon lens.<div></div>

And this is the Super Baldina with a Xenon 2,8/50.<div></div>

The now so known post-war contina (Dennis Gallus pic)

The Super Baldina in my picture does of course not have a Xenon lens, but a Xenar.

What do you mean by "folding base camera" and "folding base board?" (Not a troll, I'm not familiar with these terms.)

I'm interested in understanding / learning the folder terminology too.

Have the Balda and the Welta cameras <i>coupled</i> rangefinders? What about the Certo 35mm cameras, has one of them a coupled RF?<p>

By the way, I having just read the <b><a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00C8C2">next thread</b></a> I'd like to add that I always thought of both these cameras as two of the ugliest cameras I know of. In contrast, the Contina looks absolutely stunning.

I suppose you wouldn't count the retracting 50 mm lens on an Argus C3 as a folder, eh? ;)

Post-WWII, there's also the <a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/contessa.htm" target="_blank">Zeiss Ikon Contessa</a> folder.

BTW, is your name Keith or Patrick?

The Welta has a coupled rangefinder. I have one with an f 2.9 lens. It is not an ugly camera. When folded, it is formidable self-defense weapon/hammer.

I always wanted a Super Nettel but it was too rich for my blood. I broke the bank to get a Kodak 35 and always thought it was ugly as sin, so I sold it to my brother and bought a Foth Derby (because of its focal plane shutter) -- and it was no homecoming queen either!

Bill - "What do you mean by "folding base camera" and "folding base board?" (Not a troll, I'm not familiar with these terms.)"

 

This refers to a camera where the lens is mounted on the end of a platform or baseboard that hinges back onto the body when not in use, concealing the lens and acting as a cover. The lens is joined to the body with a flexible bellows to allow this folding action.

 

I'm sure that there are others who could describe it better, but I hope this helps...

It is good that BILL asked the question ! some cameras like the 828 Kodak Bantum Special have a clam shell type cover; nothing folds down; it folds sideways. This camera is pre Ww2 and has a coated f2 lens; and is sexier that than Bill's Kodak 35! :)

Keith, Graham:

 

What's the difference between a "folding base" camera and a plain ordinary folding camera? And where have you seen the term "folding base" used?

Thank you for the grand response. Back to my reference books to flesh out the details because I shall probably write a brief note for the Photographic Collector's Club here in the UK.

 

My name? I am Patrick Keith Hope-Lang, usually known as Keith but my credit card calls me Mr P Hope-Lang so I am often Patrick for convenience (and credit worthiness) on the web.

 

I mean no special signifiance by "folding BASE". All I mean is a camera where the lens folds away to be protected by a solid board. I include here the eccentrics like the Vitessa with its barn doors. Probably the bottom line is a camera slim enough when folded to fit in a trouser or jacket pocket and well enough protected for nothing to snag or dirt to penetrate too easily.

 

I remember the Wallace Heaton advert for the Leica. A photograph of a slightly rotund midriff protected by a natty waistcoat (or is it vest in the US?). A fine gold chain to a watch in one waistcoat pocket. Took you a moment to see the Leica III with retracted Elmar 5cm protruding from the other waistcoat pocket. Maybe they sensed implied criticism/competition in the Super Nettel's compactness though in fact the lack of interchangeable lens in the Super Nettel made it a non competitor.

 

Maybe I should open another thread here but I am also intrigued in the focal plane shutter of the Super Nettel. I presume it is there because Zeiss combined the 35mm handling mechanism including shutter of the Contax with the folding and rangefinder features of the rangefinder Ikonta. If you have a removeable lens then a focal plane shutter makes sense - it stays behind in the body. But the Super Nettel has a fixed lens. Do any of the rangfinder 35mm folders also have focal plane shutters? In fact are there many fixed lens 35mm cameras, folding or not, with focal plane shutters

 

Patrick Keith

With a folding coupled rangefinder camera like the Certo Super Dollina, the lens board slides out on rails when you open the 'front door', and that door folds downward. So the visual effect (and some of the real behaviour of the thing) is like that of a 'proper' folding baseboard, on a plate camera or a Speed Graphic. I really like this look in 35 mm size.

 

On the other hand, you can have a folding camera with a coupled RF where the lens moves on a helical thread instead, so there's no rails, and the 'door' just looks like a regular folding camera 'door'.

 

So what makes the 'door' a 'baseboard': must the lens board slide along it, and must it open downward? I guess the point is, we knew what Patrick (or Keith? a man of mystery!) was asking, so there's no point getting too hung up on terminology.

 

The cameras he mentioned were all I could think of in 35 mm too.

Oops sorry! Late again...

Keith, thanks for the reply. How would you classify, say, a Kodak Retina whose front door covers the lens when closed and an Agfa Karat that folds but has no front door?

 

Why is the distinction important? I mean, the majority of folders have front doors, some with rails on which the front standard rides, others without. The ones with rails on the front door are typically plate or press/field cameras.

 

Until proven otherwise, I'm going to believe that you coined the phrase "folding base camera." Why'd you do that when we have the perfectly good term "folding camera?" Y'r new coinage just adds confusion, reduces clarity. I can't believe that's what you intended.

 

Yes, I'm a very conservative luddite.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

It's good to know that no efforts to learn additional terminology are necessary. By the way the whole thing is very interesting.

Dan. You ask about the Agfa Karat. For me the strength of the folding base board is the protection it gives. You can put a Retina straight into your trouser/jacket pocket but it would be unfair on an Agfa Karat's lens to do the same.

 

The first camera I bought myself was a folding Voigtlander IIA. It had an ever ready case but I went to many parties with the bare camera slipped into my pocket and have many informal photographic memories as a result. Only now, older and wiser, would I worry about the dust getting into the works.

 

Keith