White or silver umbrellas? How do you use them properly?

Hello there. I am a photography enthusiast still in university and

I am interested in taking my portraiture work to the next level and

have invested in a beginner studio lighting kit. Being a student, I

couldn't afford much. The kit was a great deal and is comprised of

two 7' stands, two 32" umbrellas, and a master and a slave (AC

powered flashes). I have a choice as to getting silver or white or

one of each for my umbrellas. As of now, I'm getting one of each.

I was wondering, what is generally better for portraits? Is it

better to direct the umbrellas away from the subject or towards?

(white towards, silver away?)<p>

 

Is white more of a diffuser and silver more of a reflector? Also,

any tips on how to set these up? A fellow photographer gave me

these tips:<p>

 

If you are doing portraits you need two lights from the front. One

would be the main light and the other would be 1/3 the intensity at

an angle from the side. Then you will need some kind of light

behind and above to light up hair. Then there is the background.

You have to be careful with shadows falling on it.<p>

 

So should I use the silver to reflect my main source of light onto

my subject from one front angle, and then use my white umbrella to

diffuse some natural lighting effects onto a different angle? I

still have to purchase a background. I'm thinking of going to

Fabricland and buying large cuts of black fabric. Possibly white.

Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance for all your help!<p>

 

<img src="http://home.att.net/~DreamMaker2/StudioSet1.jpg">

Oh, and I also purchased some optical slave triggers for my other external flash units to use for illuminating the background and prevent shadows. Is there anything similar to the Sunny 16 rule when it comes to studio portraits?

"Is there anything similar to the Sunny 16 rule when it comes to studio portraits?"

 

yes a flashmeter.

if you want predictable results you have to make and learn to read polaroids or histogramms(in PS).

 

please be careful with these flashes. they are not fan cooled and may get hot. the silver scrim only reflects light the white (if its a shoot through) can be used as shoot through or reflective. but you use lots of power anyway.

 

 

buy something you can use as a pilot lamp. so that you can see the direction of the light.

 

start with one flash without umbrella and move it around the model (from straight behind the camera to straight behind the model). ad a light with umbrella for fill under the camera (or at the other side of the main light). use one umbrella for main without fill and then use the silver as main and the white as fill and then use one umbrella as main and a light without umbrella as fill.

 

use a head 90? to the left and one head 90? to the right of the model at same output and same distance. thats "karsh" light. nothing really fresh but funny to try.

do the same with umbrellas at 45? and it makes a beauty light. make the same but 45? behind the model and you get very nice "outlines". take a foamcore to put some light at the front of the model.

 

hope that helps.

 

D.

I'm getting into the same thing.. I just bought a small light set from Ebay, They're not the alienbees I was wanting.. but my budget got chopped in half so I had to settle for a little less... I would recommend you pick up Master Lighting Guide by Christopher Grey, nice book, it'll show you all you need to know about portrait lighting...

and a used flash meter from E-bay wouldn't hurt... I got a Minolta IIIf for ~90 shipped...

-Josh

David and Josh, thanks for your input.

 

David, all your suggested placements really make me wish I had a DSLR. What I think I'll do is take some test shots with my Canon Powershot A70 (small digital camera with creative modes) and then use similar exposure settings with my Elan 7e.

 

Josh, although $90 doesn't look that terribly expensive, I just don't think I can afford another purchase of that magnitude for a while. I already bit the bullet with the kit I just bought. I will look into that flash meter, however, and watch the prices for it. To be honest, I have no idea how a flash meter works.

Well, you've bought it now so there isn't much point in advising you to save up until you can afford something better, with interchangeable reflectors, modelling lamps and variable power...

 

Reflective umbrellas produce much harsher light than shoot-throughs, which diffuse the light and which can be placed much closer to the subject. Of the reflective umbrellas, silver ones produce harsher, more specular light than white ones. Harsher isn't necessarily worse but it's good to have a choice, and shoot-through gives you more choice because you can make the light softer by positioning it. closer or harder by moving it further away.

 

As for the positioning of the lights, different lighting arrangements will give you very different results. The arrangement suggested to you will give very singular results. Nothing is really right or wrong in photographic lighting, you need to experiment and learn by experience. You also need to have an armoury of lighting arrangements to suit a range of subjects and your own preferences. What IS wrong, IMO, is adopting a set arrangement in the belief that it's 'good'.

 

In the absence of both modelling lamps and experience I think you will need to do test shots with your digital. This will also give an indication of exposure, although the tiny screen on digital cameras is less than ideal. A flash meter is far more accurate, but if your budget doesn't allow it...

 

You might like to take a look at the various lighting themes archived under 'Administration' in this forum, some of them are very good and I wrote the others.

 

BTW, I deleted your triplicate posting, which seems to have been a mistake.

 

Hope this helps

ill give you a little work around for the missing flashmeter. something to start but this wont take you very far.

 

buy a 100w or 150w spot from your hardware store and mount it close to the flash. thats now your pilot lamp that shows you the direction of the light. this works only with the umbrellas because flash and pilot light is mixed and diffused.

 

the tricky part. take an ambient reading of the pilot lamp, say 1/15 f 2,8 or something like that. and then shoot a slide film at f 4/5,6/8/11...(maybe with half steps inbetween)write the f stops down.

 

one of the frames should be correctly exposed. take the f stop from that exposure and calculate the difference to the "ambient reading.

now you can take an ambient reading of a scene and use a compensation to use with your flash. if the flash is farther away/more diffused the pilot lamp will be weaker...

 

the studio has to be dark with no daylight reaching inside and no lights turned on.

thatll work as reliable as the sunny16 rule not more.

 

i have never tried this but its logic. and not having a flashmeter and polaroid is like the worst accident.

 

and of course you can also learn the exposure difference between your digital kamera and your film camera. (use slides to learn and neg for safety)

 

D.

Gary, thank you. David, thank you again.

 

Gary: I couldn't imagine spending more than I have for a beginner set of studio lighting. I won this auction with shipping for a total of $121 US. I found that to be quite a deal. I've seen the better kits which can go well over $200 to thousands. I really wouldn't spend that kind of money on a startup lighting kit. I would more likely buy a used 10D with that money. I do know that this setup will be a challenge to learn but I'm willing. I will try out different lighting setups. Do you think I should have asked for 2 white umbrellas instead? I think I have time to do that. Please let me know. I just figured that having both will give me more of a "choice".

 

David: I do have a polaroid 600 camera. Would taking test shots with this be better than my small digi? All I know is I'd have to use some kind of reflector to prevent the on-camera flash on my digi from "flattening" my subject. Same with the polaroid flash, right? As for the test shots with slide film, for now, I'm using negs. I'll test as much as I can with my digi but as for shooting many test rolls with film, the cost of processing and developing and scanning onto cds makes me weary about getting too trigger happy with my shutter release button. Anyone got an old flash flash meter they want to get rid of? =p

"Gary: I couldn't imagine spending more than I have for a beginner set of studio lighting. I won this auction with shipping for a total of $121 US. I found that to be quite a deal. I've seen the better kits which can go well over $200 to thousands. I really wouldn't spend that kind of money on a startup lighting kit. I would more likely buy a used 10D with that money."

 

Well, we're all different. Personally I would view lighting equipment as far more worthy of expense than a fancy camera, but that's just me.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world with this lighting kit, but I feel that it should be described as an experts kit, not a beginners kit, because it will take far more care and far more skill to get decent results than it would if you had better equipment.

 

As for your umbrellas, personally I would suggest 1 x silver reflector type and 1 x shoot through.

 

Hope this helps

Gary, the reason why I would spend on the 10D is because of the immediate feedback. I would be able to take many test shots and instantly see where I went wrong. I would probably spend much less time making mistakes with this "expert" lighting kit if I had a DSLR. The fact that I use an Elan 7e now is why I want a 10D, the digital sister.

 

And you know what, I think I will call it an expert's kit. That would make me an expert! =p But seriously, please check my portfolio from time to time in the future. I'll post up my better results with this kit and hopefully, you'll find some time to give me more pointers.

 

Thanks for the umbrella combo suggestion. I feel better now because that's what I chose. =)

Two things FJ. First, a silver umbrella will give you a harder light than a white reflective umbrella. Shooting through a white umbrella isn't one of my preferences because even using a 1500 watt second monolight, I think the light loss in terms of f-stops is a bit too much.

 

The key to getting the full, wraparound kind of effect in using an umbrella is to arrange your light to umbrella distance so that the light fills the umbrella to within a few inches of the outside edge. That way, you get the maximum bounce without excess spill. I guess that for your lights, as someone suggested, you're going to have to rig up some sort of modeling light attached to you flash units, in order to do what I've suggested.

 

And, if you light at 90 degrees to either side of the subject, you're basically cross-lighting them. That's ok, but you'll find that sort of lighting is rather flat. To really get the benefit of your lights with umbrellas I'd start by rigging one light at 45 degrees to your camera position, then use one light for a few exposures, make some notes, then add the second light at say 50 per cent the power of the first, rigged around the side and back of the subject like a fill light. This serves to outline the subject, highlight their hair somewhat, and separate them from the background, especially if you're using a dark background.

 

Someone mentioned a heat problem. Since I don't see any modeling lights on the heads, I doubt that'll be a problem. Lastly, as a suggestion, if your budget at some point can tolerate it, find a used monolight in good condition, something in the 1000 Watt Second range with a spill-kill reflector, like a Bowens, for example. 1000WS in an umbrella will give you the kind of horsepower you need to work at smaller f-stops, say in the f-11 range, and probably a broader light. At that point, you could use your present system for fill then later, add a softbox. Mark

Thanks, Mark! I will definitely try out numerous angles and lighting combinations. I also have other smaller external flash units (to be used with my optical slave triggers) that I can place behind/below the subject for better outlining. I will consider that monolight suggestion once I generate some revenue from my current setup. I don't want to spend much more on studio portraiture equipment until I know I can make more money off of it.

 

General question, do people avoid continous lighting setups solely because of the heat factor? In my humble and unexperience opinion, I'd think continuous lighting would be best to shoot in since the light you want is basically your ambient light that your camera is metering. No need to predict any bursts of light.

IMHO, I think continuous lighting would be ideal for me. However, the energy consumption, heat, and price of such a set are all too high for me.

Good news! I found a great deal on a flash meter on ebay. I just purchased a Portaflash flash meter. Anyone have any experiences with one of these?

I'm nearly a beginner myself. Here's what I've found useful in understanding your Q:s about umbrellas, aside from using digital SLR, which helps enourmously with metering issues:

<p>

1) If I didn't have a digital camera or a light meter, I'd use your poloroid for basic exposures and mark the floor with tape so as to remember the distance of the light from the subject.

<p>

2)I bought an old bargain meter that doesn't do anything other than read a single light within 1/2 stops. It was less than $20 on ebay -- maybe $8 plus shipping. That might be worth it for you.

<p>

3) I don't own umbrellas yet, but the calumet potrait lighting video had some good advice about placement and advantages of white vs. silver. vs. shoot though. One thing I got from it was that the silver umbrella produced more spectral highlights which produce more pronounced highlights that carve out the face. They showed and example in the video of how this was an advantage (to carve out the face) when lighting a profile from the side (actually lighting the face directly on from one side while the subject is turned towards that side). Somthing like:

<p>

The white one might work pretty good to light more from the front, whereas the silver umbrella may be more of a challenge with your highlights when used as your main light (key) in frontally lit or 45 sidelit portraits. (At least that's the rough impression I get from the video, but not from actually practice, so the advice from the pros to experiment is good and take my advice with however many grains of salt you wish)

<p>

The video may be worth the 20 - $25 bucks if you come into the cash. It gave me a pretty good idea of some basic lighting arrangements, but it also sends some of the runtime plugging bowens made for calumet lights and accesories, so you'll have to judge if that's a reasonable expense for you right now, since you can get ideas here free on photo.net.

Btw, I had a nice lighting diagram of a sidelit silver umbrella profile shot in pretext that you might try, but I guess that's not allowed anymore because of spammers... ? Sorry.

Sorry I didn't catch your last comment about the meter. Please disregard advice on buying cheap meter.