Which monolights Hypersync to 1/8000th w/Nikon D3s + MiniTT1/FlexTT5 set-up?

<p>I understand the basic limitations of focal-plane shutters, the power-draining effects of camera manufacturer's "High-Speed FP Sync" feature, and the basic principle behind LPA Design's PocketWizard Hypersync feature (which, I know is different from High-Speed FP Sync). But LPA's Hypersync feature appears to perform differently with both different bodies and different studio strobes.<br /><br />A photographer's website located here: <a href="http://www.lebryk.com/category/pocket-wizard/">http://www.lebryk.com/category/pocket-wizard/</a> describes many Hypersync-photographed images, using a Dynalite Uni400JR strobe, attaining bar-free images at speeds up to 1/8,000th of a second with his D3s + MiniTT1 + FlexTT5 (where I assume he used his TT5 as a simple RF remote trigger, since the Dynalite doesn't support remote power control via the TT5).<br /><br />However, in another photographer's blog, located here: <a href="http://tombolphoto.com/blog/elinchrom-ranger-using-pocketwizard-hypersync-18000-sync-speed-possible/">http://tombolphoto.com/blog/elinchrom-ranger-using-pocketwizard-hypersync-18000-sync-speed-possible/</a> he indicates that he was able to attain a 1/8,000th of a second sync with his D300 and an Elinchrom Ranger, but only 1/320th with his D3.<br /><br />So, since the maximum, bar-free, Hypersync sync speed is strobe-dependent, and the maximum sync speed appears to vary widely among both different manufacturer's strobes, and differing camera bodies, I was wondering if anyone else here who owns a Nikon D3s has any experience in attaining sync speeds significantly higher than 1/250th using the PocketWizard MiniTT1/FlexTT5 (as Lebryk demonstrated with his D3s and a Dynalite monobloc). I am only interested in monolights (my Speedlights Hypersync fine at 1/8,000th). I suppose I'm looking for the monolight with the longest "tail."<br /><br />While the Dynalite is the only strobe I could find to actually be documented to Hypersync problem-free at 1/8,000th, specifically with a Nikon D3s, it would be nice to find another monobloc which syncs as fast, yet also supports the remote power control capability of the FlexTT5.</p>

<p>Thanks for any replies!</p>

<p>You need a strobe with a slow flash duration because the strobe "flash" needs to illuminate the subject during the time it takes the camera to expose a 1/8000s shot (which takes around 1/250s or so depending on how fast the shutter curtains move).</p>

<p>So any strobe that is good for freezing action would be bad for hypersync. Since the Dynalite Uni400JR is spec'd at 1/675s at full power any monolight around 1/675s or slower should work just the same.<br>

<br /> Usually standard monolights have a longer flash duration (t=0.1) when used at lower power settings. The spec's usually mention t=0.5 which is shorter though so it's easy to get the wrong impression. What I'm getting at is that if a strobe doesn't hypersync well at full power it might at a lower power setting.</p>

<p>Also note that strobes that are IGBT controlled like the Einstein is not good for hypersync.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I said . . .</p>

<blockquote>

<p>. . . it would be nice to find another monobloc which syncs as fast, yet also supports the remote power control capability of the FlexTT5.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Where what I meant was, "it would be nice to find another monobloc which syncs as fast, yet also supports the remote power control capability of the [MiniTT1, with either a <em>built-in</em>, or<em> added</em> ControlTL receiver for that specific monolight]."</p>

<p>Pete said . . .</p>

<blockquote>

<p>You need a strobe with a slow flash duration because the strobe "flash" needs to illuminate the subject during the time it takes the camera to expose a 1/8000s shot (which takes around 1/250s or so depending on how fast the shutter curtains move).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes! Precisely!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Usually standard monolights have a longer flash duration (t=0.1) when used at lower power settings. The spec's usually mention t=0.5 which is shorter though so it's easy to get the wrong impression. What I'm getting at is that if a strobe doesn't hypersync well at full power it might at a lower power setting.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thank you for that detailed and informed reply! Yes, so the trick is to interpret the manufacturer's specs correctly? What T value am I looking for? A higher numeric T value, or a lower one?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Also note that strobes that are IGBT controlled like the Einstein is not good for hypersync.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, thanks, I'm aware of that. Thanks again for your help!</p>

<p>I said . . .</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Yes, so the trick is to interpret the manufacturer's specs correctly? What T value am I looking for? A higher numeric T value, or a lower one?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So, I did some learnin' about T.1/T.5 values and what they mean, and I think I'm getting it. I'm sure I'll have another dumb question to post here in a few hours.</p>

<p>Okay, for example, the Alien Bees B1600 spec sheet states a T.1 value of 1/600th at full-power, but a T.5 value of only 1/1,800th at full power. According to other posts here, if the manufacturer gives only a single duration value in their spec sheet (as Dynalite's only does), they're most likely quoting the T.5 value. In the case of the Dynalite, it merely states a 1/675th duration at full-power, which, if following that advice, would be a T.5 value of 1/675th, a speed significantly longer than the B1600's T.5 spec of 1/1,800th. Therefore, the Dynalite monobloc would be superior at attaining higher maximum Hypersync speeds over the B1600. Does this sound correct?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Therefore, the Dynalite monobloc would be superior at attaining higher maximum Hypersync speeds over the B1600. Does this sound correct?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, that sounds correct .</p>

<p>Also keep in mind that the t.1 and t.5 units are seconds. So 1/675 is 1/675th of a second. The t.1 value is usually around three times slower than the t.5 as a rule of thumb. So in this case around 1/225s.</p>

<p> </p>

Hi Ralph,

First of all why are you looking to sync a moonlight or even a pack and head system at very short shutter speeds? In

my trials and tests and actual work with the ControlTL system and non smart speedlights what I have found is both the

camera body and the flash are factors n how high a shutter is usable. You and Steve are on the right track with

looking for flashes with long t0.1 FD ( 1/250 or longer) times but the trigger circuity in the light is also a factor. Using

ControlTL gear I can get a Profoto 6B (600 w-s ) battery powered flash to give me a full frame sync up to 1/3200

shutterspeed on an EOS-1D mkIV , but can't get above 1/500 with other flashes which I know have very long t0.1 FD

(longer than 1/100) at full power when using the same body or different models or makes of cameras.

 

As of today, the Speedlight / Speedlite flashes that have a ControlTL receiver are the Einstein (PowerMC2), the other

Paul C Buff flashes (AC9 receiver) and Elinchroms with a connection for an external Skyport receiver ( PowerST2

receiver). I know that Profoto and LPA design are working on a dual Profoto Air / ControlTL system but don't know

what form that will take.

<p>Hey there, Ellis. Thanks for your reply. Well, I want to drop my ambient/background exposure two to three stops or more, and key with a battery-powered monolight. Ideally, with enough power to shoot it through a softbox. I know that's not likely to happen with only a 400Ws head, however. I basically went through the specs of every monolight in the B+H catalog over the last few hours and found only one or two likely candidates with long flash durations.</p>

<p>I saw that someone had a PocketWizard "card," but that only gave you remote triggering--no remote power control. So, as you mention, there's really no long-duration flash head with PocketWizard power control right now. Unfortunately, the Elinchroms and Einsteins are simply too fast, and others have reported only modest increases in max shutter speeds (e.g., 1/320th) with the Elinchroms under Hypersync control. That's fine. I'm sure either full- or half-power, through the right amount of diffusion will get me in the ballpark 99% of the time. And yeah, it's weird how even just different bodies give different max shutter speeds while still using the identical outboard gear.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Wouldn't it be easier with some neutral density filters and more powerful lights or a camera with leaf shutter? Of course in the case of a leaf shutter, you'll still need strobes with a short enough flash duration.</p>

<p>"you'll still need strobes with a short enough flash duration."<br>

No. you'll need a flash with a long enough FD to last the entire shutter cycle. </p>

<p>With regard to overpowering daylight by 2-3 stops, there's a fundamental issue you have to be aware of with the whole "hypersync + long duration studio flash" setup. Once you cross over beyond the shutter sync speed, you are only using a <em>portion</em> of the strobe's light as the shutter slit moves across the frame. Since the strobe lasts as long as the entire duration that the shutter is moving (roughly 1/250, even with faster shutter speeds) it starts to act like ambient light. This means that your ratio of sunlight to strobe doesn't change as you increase your shutter speed. So, this method <em>does not help you overpower the sun.</em> It will allow you to shoot with a wider aperture, but won't help you change the ratio of flash to ambient. Functionally, it's just an alternative to an ND filter so you don't have to stop way down.</p>

<p>Ellis - I think Marc was talking about the option of using a leaf shutter, in which case he is correct that the OP would need a short enough flash duration so that it could fully fire within the shutter speed.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>This means that your ratio of sunlight to strobe doesn't change as you increase your shutter speed.<br>

Oh sure it does -- it all depends on the energy level your lights are at and their proximity to your subject.</p>

<p>Both frames in the attached pair were shot with the same lights (A Profoto 600B and a 580 EX II ) at ISo 100. The one on the left was exposed at ƒ/7.1 and 1/300. The one on the right was exposed at f/5.6 @ 1/2,500. </p>

</blockquote><div></div>

<p>Okay, I should have been a little less absolute. I'm sure that there will be some subtle variations in the exposure. My point is that with shooting beyond the sync speed you lose the traditional control between shutter speed controlling ambient and aperture controlling flash, and that it is LESS efficient than shooting within the sync speed if your goal is to overpower sunlight. </p>

<p>The sync timing of the PW systems allow you to exploit the maximum possible shutter sync speed. With the 1D IV, the default sync is 1/320 and with precisely dialed in timing you can get almost another half stop, without throwing away any of the strobe's light or needing to use a long duration flash. The shutter is open all the way at the very exact time the strobe fires, at the maximum possible shutter speed before the shutter starts "getting in the way" of the light from the strobe. This is the point of greatest efficiency, because 100% of the light from the strobe is getting to the camera sensor.</p>

<p>Once you cross beyond this point of maximum efficiency to faster and faster shutter speeds, the shutter is now a "moving slit", and although the strobe flash duration lasts the entire time that the shutter is moving, some portion of that light from the strobe is being blocked from hitting the sensor because the shutter is in the way. When you increase shutter speed further, you are just making the shutter slit narrower and are blocking a larger and larger percentage of the light from the flash.</p>

<p>So point where you've got the greatest ability to overpower the sun happens right at that "maximum sync speed". You don't need a short duration flash or a long duration flash to take advantage of this, because the shutter is 100% open and 100% of the light gets to the sensor. By virtue of the physics, the shutter speeds beyond this point cannot improve your ratio of flash to ambient, because you are starting to block light from the flash from getting to the sensor.</p>

<p>What your example photo shows is that the 1D IV was not yet at it's most efficient sync speed for the picture on the left because it was under the native sync speed and even further under the "ideal" sync speed you could achieve with dialing in the PW timings. You still had room to increase the shutter speed to block out more ambient without affecting your key light. Once you crossed that "ideal sync speed", you've gone beyond the point of maximum efficiency, and you aren't going to get any more improvement in your strobe power over the ambient. This is partly why you see your key light being darker in the photo on the right, even though you've opened the aperture. If you were to have increased your shutter speed from 1/2500 to 1/5000 for the photo on the right, you would have seen a roughly equal darkening of both the sky in the background and of the key light on his face.</p>

<p>Anyways, here's my takeaway. The Pocketwizard system is great. It allows you to exploit that last little bit of sync speed from your camera, and to be as efficient as possible with any strobes (short or long duration). The whole long tail strobe/hypersync/shutter speed well beyond the sync speed endeavor is a totally different animal. It doesn't help you overpower ambient, it just allows you to shoot with more open apertures without having to use an ND filter.</p>

<p>All good points Sheldon except that the sun , on a more less cloud free day, is at a fixed brightness. We can always add more lights to the mix . Add a head wit the same energy doubles the light we have to work with, and we can change reflectors to concentrate the light we have in a more focused beam. </p>

<p>Absolutely. With most studio strobes you've got ample power to overpower the sun, especially up close or with an efficient modifier. My points are really only about situations where you've already turned the strobe up to max power and are looking to find a way to further underexpose the ambient light while keeping the strobe exposure/modifier/distance constant. For example if you want to run a 3x4' softbox at 8 feet with a 400 watt/second strobe and compete with daylight, you'd probably be looking for a way to find more power.</p>

<p>Most people seem to be very curious about the hypersync approach as a way to "beat out the ambient", when in reality it doesn't accomplish that purpose.</p>

<p>The only real reasons to use it would be to change your shooting aperture for shallower depth of field (alternative to an ND filter), or if you needed to have a shorter shutter speed to freeze a moving subject that was being illuminated by both ambient and strobe.</p>

<p>Mark said:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Wouldn't it be easier with some neutral density filters and more powerful lights or a camera with leaf shutter? Of course in the case of a leaf shutter, you'll still need strobes with a short enough flash duration.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for your reply, Mark. Well, I was looking specifically to control ambient exposure by adjusting shutter speed. Spinning a thumbwheel on my body is simply much faster than changing screw-in ND filters (although a matte box would make those changes quicker). And, yes, I did consider using an MFDB for these photos, for both increased image quality, and for having the option to use leaf-shutter lenses. I looked at both the Mamiya 645DF and Hasselblad H4D, but at those prices, I would have to rent rather than own. I'd rather own my gear. I made a decision a while back to stick to FX-format gear for its convenience. Plus the leaf-shutter lenses I was looking into didn't seem to go that high anyway. </p>

 

<p>Pete said:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Yes, that sounds correct.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for checking my work! Looks like I have this almost figured out.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>The t.1 value is usually around three times slower than the t.5 as a rule of thumb. So in this case around 1/225s.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Cool! Thanks for your help!</p>

<p>Sheldon said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>My point is that with shooting beyond the sync speed you lose the traditional control between shutter speed controlling ambient and aperture controlling flash, and that it is LESS efficient than shooting within the sync speed if your goal is to overpower sunlight.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for your reply, Sheldon. I understand that I'm losing flash power by employing Hypersync, and I'm willing to give that up for the benefits gained. Also, I won't be controlling my flash exposure via my aperture. In my application, I will be adjusting ambient exposure with shutter speed, and setting aperture arbitrarily (and, adjusting ISO to accommodate that arbitrary choice), since that will be determined by aesthetic design. I'll be controlling my flash by either varying power, varying flash-to-subject distance, and/or varying the type and size of modifier.</p>

<p>Sheldon said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>For example if you want to run a 3x4' softbox at 8 feet with a 400 watt/second strobe and compete with daylight, you'd probably be looking for a way to find more power.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, I agree, 400Ws isn't likely going to cut it. I was on a daylight exterior set (magazine editorial) a few weeks ago where the photographer set up two 2,400Ws studio-pack strobes through a 12' x 12' polysilk to illuminate a group of subjects who were backlit by direct, mid-afternoon sun. He said he wished he had two 4800Ws packs instead.</p>

<p>Ellis said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Both frames in the attached pair were shot with the same lights (A Profoto 600B and a 580 EX II ) at ISo 100. The one on the left was exposed at ƒ/7.1 and 1/300. The one on the right was exposed at f/5.6 @ 1/2,500.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for posting those, Ellis! I assume the Profoto was at full-power (600Ws). Do you mind sharing the flash-to-subject distance, and the type and size of modifier used?</p>

<p><em><strong>Long-Duration Monolights:</strong></em></p>

<p>After a lengthy review of various monolights, from what I could gather, here are the longest-duration, 120VAC monobloc strobes, among the most commonly distributed brands sold in the U.S. Listed from longest-to-shortest flash duration, at full power [note: since 't' values weren't specified, it's assumed that all data pertains to their respective t=0.5 values]:<br /> <br />1. Speedotron Force 5 $699 USD<br /> Full power = CONSTANT 1/500th</p>

<p>2. Dynalite Uni400JR $598 USD<br /> Full power = 1/675th<br /> 1/2 power = 1/1,100th<br /> 1/4 power =1/1,800th<br /> 1/8 power = 1/2,200th</p>

<p>3. Speedotron Force 10 $794 USD<br /> Full power = CONSTANT 1/850th</p>

<p>4. Bowens Gemini 500R $579 USD<br /> Full power = 1/900th</p>

<p>One photographer (referenced earlier) reported up to 1/8,000th Hypersync shutter speed with a Nikon D3s using a Dynalite Uni400JR at full power. Lesser shutter speeds, although still very high, were reported at half power. I could find no Hypersync user reports regarding actual performance data for the Speedotron Force 5/10 series. Various Canon users have reported only modest shutter speed increases with the Bowens Gemini 500R. Also, note that your mileage will definitely vary depending on the specific camera body used (i.e., the identical monobloc will result in <em>differing</em> maximum Hypersync speeds, when used with different bodies).</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Sheldon Nalos:<br>

Most people seem to be very curious about the hypersync approach as a way to "beat out the ambient", when in reality it doesn't accomplish that purpose.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It does work as a way to "beat out the ambient", but you need to find the right equipment to work together to make it work.<br />There are compromises to be made too which could be mitigated by simply having enough flash power in the first place (which is the easy way to do it) until you find the right flash equipment to provide you some benefit.<br />Here's a test I did with a D3x and SB900 showing that Hypersync can provide a higher flash sync whilst maintaining the same aperture, f10 in this case:<br /><img src="http://www.commercialphotographer.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/compositepw850.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="118" /><br />Depending on how much your compromise will run to will depend on how much benefit you will obtain. For the intended use I had for these, I was prepared to compromise up to 1/800s and obtain about +1.6 stops benefit, it's fair to say I wasn't intending to do any copy work with this, so it would have been an informed choice to use the benefit if it was required, but ultimately, I wasn't prepared to put up with all the other idiosyncrasies as well.<br>

Compared to the HSS hack this Hypersync solution provides benefit up to a certain point, and only with certain flash equipment, that flash equipment needs a relatively short flash duration. This short flash duration is neccesary to maintain the brightest output (but unfortunately, because this output cannot be maintained over the shutter duration, it's this which causes the graduation) longer flash durations don't provide this increased benefit and only equate to a balanced flash/ambient ratio equivalent to that obtained at max X-sync.<br>

If anybody has results from any monolights they've tried rather than just quoting the flash duration times, I'd be interested in seeing them. Particularly if they specifically use Hypersync with an associated increase in output, rather than just an equivalent HSS hack which (in general) only maintains full x-sync ratio.</p>

<p><strong><em>CORRECTION:</em></strong></p>

<blockquote>

<p>1. Speedotron Force 5 $699 USD<br />Full power = CONSTANT 1/500th</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This information is <strong><em>incorrect</em></strong>. The B+H site apparently has a typo in the Force 5's specifications tab. According to both the Speedotron Force 5 product user manual PDF and the Speedotron website, the flash duration for the Speedotron Force 5 is <strong><em>1/1,500th</em></strong>, <em>not</em> 1/500th. And, this is a constant 1/1,500th, thoughout its power range, according to the manufacturer. [Note: the spec for the Force 10 is accurate: 1/850th, constant.]</p>

<p>Ian said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Compared to the HSS hack this Hypersync solution provides benefit up to a certain point, and only with certain flash equipment, that flash equipment needs a relatively short flash duration.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Okay, now I'm confused.</p>

<p><br /> Ian also said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>If anybody has results from any monolights they've tried rather than just quoting the flash duration times, I'd be interested in seeing them. Particularly if they specifically use Hypersync with an associated increase in output, rather than just an equivalent HSS hack which (in general) only maintains full x-sync ratio.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I have no real-world data to share since I'm still trying to figure out which monolight is going to benefit most from the use of Hypersync. Here are the only data I could find (which I previously posted), mentioning specific camera bodies and specific monolights.</p>

<p>I said, previously:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>A photographer's website located here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lebryk.com/category/pocket-wizard/" target="_blank">http://www.lebryk.com/category/pocket-wizard/</a> describes many Hypersync-photographed images, using a Dynalite Uni400JR strobe, attaining bar-free images at speeds up to 1/8,000th of a second with his D3s + MiniTT1 + FlexTT5.<br /><br />However, in another photographer's blog, located here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://tombolphoto.com/blog/elinchrom-ranger-using-pocketwizard-hypersync-18000-sync-speed-possible/" target="_blank">http://tombolphoto.com/blog/elinchrom-ranger-using-pocketwizard-hypersync-18000-sync-speed-possible/</a> he indicates that he was able to attain a 1/8,000th of a second sync with his D300 and an Elinchrom Ranger, but only [1/500th] with his D3.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Your further comments on the site examples from the above links are most welcome.</p>